2021 Lions

[wixfjord]

Just a question to those who seem to be agreeing with this.

Did you find the last 18 months of lockdown hard personally? Maybe a few mental health struggles or anxieties cropped up because you're copped up at home and can't get out to do anything?

I would say the answer is yes for most of us.

So why do you find it difficult to understand how a guy who's away from his home & family for three months in an even more intense 'locked down' environment might have the same or worse issues?

It's fairly basic empathy.

[CiaranIrl]

It’s not the players complaining, and if they do they’re being polite about the fan experience and media sideshow.

They’re not suffering, it’s just something to talk about given that part of the tour it the tour.

You're totally right, but in my experience, when various ex players and pundits go on about something like that as strongly as Brian O'Driscoll did on off the ball, it's because they've heard something. But regardless, it's more that I'm pre-emptively ranting!

[CiaranIrl]

There's been a raft of commentary in the last week or so about how terribly hard it will be for the players to go through this tour without being able to jump into shark tanks and the like. See Brian O'Driscoll last night on off the ball for example, spending 20 minutes rattling on about his worries for the mental health of the squad.

I find all of this utterly nonsensical and distasteful. What thefuck is wrong with these fragile snowflakes if they're suffering so much from this tour? Are they so utterly tone deaf that they don't understand that real people in the real f%~king world have seriously suffered this last 18m or so?

I get that DECISIONS made in 2005 pissed players off. This is entirely different. This is just them facing up to a few obstacles that the universe is throwing their way. If anyone expects us to feel sorry for these players just because they have to play Xbox instead of golf, they would want to cop the f%~k on.

If this is a serious post it's a very strange one.

'Fragile snowflakes'? Tone deaf? Really?!

The fact that millions have suffered in various ways doesn't negate the equal fact that being away from home and family for months on end in a massively pressurised & stressful bubble with people you don't know and with no release valve might have an impact on someone's mental health.

Surely after 18 months of lockdown you can understand why having your personal freedoms and ability to get out of your immediate surroundings might be tough, particular when you're living in a hotel room?

'Suffering' is an individual, personal thing. Just because someone else has suffered more or differently doesn't mean you say 'cop the f%~k on' to these players.

Your angle and attitude on this is totally wrong Ciaran.

It's 6 weeks. Not months on end. 6 weeks. That's it. They're not in prison. They're in the best facilities in the in the nicest hotels the country has to offer. I would give my right arm for a trip like they're on right now. I'm not saying it's ideal and a perfect tour. I'm saying that it's absurd that Brian O'Driscoll and Austin Healy and many others should be asking for us to pity them. They're fine. If they can't handle it, then yes, I think they would want to cop on.

I'll tell you deserves our concern. Elderly people who saw nobody aside from a Tesco delivery driver for 6 months. Nurses and doctors who worked 80 hour weeks with long Covid symptoms of their own. Checkout staff in supermarkets who worked during the height of the pandemic and got sick because of it. There's people out there that really gave a lot up, and listening to Brian O'Driscoll really disappointed me.

At the very worst, they are stuck in an amazing hotel with groups of interesting people to chat to and hang out with, time to read and play Xbox and whatever else between training. Oh, and getting paid more than the average annual industrial wage for the privilege. That's better than the best I had in the last 18 months. The worst I had it wouldn't even register on the scale of difficult times people had during the last 18m.

[ronk]

My experience is different. The tour is part of the mythology and fun, but none of those guys are there for a free holiday. They want to play, they want to win, they want to be the best.

There's a great buzz meeting fans and that's an experience that's hard to describe. But it's optional.

[JB1973]

Bit of a side note but what's the story with off the ball? I see it on you tube and they get a lot of high profile guests in various sports

Is it an on line thing or is it on mainstream tv/radio in Ireland? what would the equivalent of it be in the uk? is it a 24/7 show ?

[JB1973]

My experience is different. The tour is part of the mythology and fun, but none of those guys are there for a free holiday. They want to play, they want to win, they want to be the best.

There's a great buzz meeting fans and that's an experience that's hard to describe. But it's optional.

I think the biggest problem is when it becomes clear your not going to figure in the tests, and your still stuck in "covid jail"

It's going to be a pretty joy less last few weeks for those players, at least on a normal lions tour you get to go out have a few beers , sightsee and meet people

Not saying there aren't people a lot worse off but it would still cheese you off

[The Doc]

Bit of a side note but what's the story with off the ball? I see it on you tube and they get a lot of high profile guests in various sports

Is it an on line thing or is it on mainstream tv/radio in Ireland? what would the equivalent of it be in the uk? is it a 24/7 show ?

Off the ball is (or was originally) the sports program on one of the national radio stations here (Newstalk). But over the last few years they have been obviously building out a distinct on-line brand. Initially podcasting various sections of the main radio show but then doing online only content - podcasts and videos

They sort of followed the Second Captains crowd - who originally were the presenting team on Off The Ball but left to setup Second Captains - a podcast daily sports channel.

The UK equivalent might be the sports department of Radio 5 or something like that. It's not 24/7 though the main radio station is 24/7 (ish) - not all sports obviously

[wixfjord]

It's 6 weeks. Not months on end. 6 weeks. That's it. They're not in prison. They're in the best facilities in the in the nicest hotels the country has to offer. I would give my right arm for a trip like they're on right now. I'm not saying it's ideal and a perfect tour. I'm saying that it's absurd that Brian O'Driscoll and Austin Healy and many others should be asking for us to pity them. They're fine. If they can't handle it, then yes, I think they would want to cop on.

I'll tell you deserves our concern. Elderly people who saw nobody aside from a Tesco delivery driver for 6 months. Nurses and doctors who worked 80 hour weeks with long Covid symptoms of their own. Checkout staff in supermarkets who worked during the height of the pandemic and got sick because of it. There's people out there that really gave a lot up, and listening to Brian O'Driscoll really disappointed me.

At the very worst, they are stuck in an amazing hotel with groups of interesting people to chat to and hang out with, time to read and play Xbox and whatever else between training. Oh, and getting paid more than the average annual industrial wage for the privilege. That's better than the best I had in the last 18 months. The worst I had it wouldn't even register on the scale of difficult times people had during the last 18m.

Ah see I totally disagree with the 'this person's suffering is worse then your suffering' idea. It's not a suffering competition. Why are you comparing?

You can be as concerned for elderly people and also understand that these guys might be finding it tough. Why is it one or the other?

Like it's not a holiday, they're on a 6 week work trip away from home and family under huge pressure with people they don't know and with no release valve. Their lives for 6 weeks are training and playing.

I hope they all enjoy it. But equally I wouldn't call anyone a 'snowflake' or should 'cop on' if they're finding it tough.

That's a mini version of the sort of 'you can't be depressed or anxious shur you have a great life' b*%&!cks that has caused issues for years.

[CiaranIrl]

That's a mini version of the sort of 'you can't be depressed or anxious shur you have a great life' b*%&!cks that has caused issues for years.

It's not at all like that. If any of these players have mental health issues in their day to day lives, then I wish them the absolute best, I absolutely empathize and I hope they have all the support they need. That's an absolutely real thing, and should never be belittled.

However, if the only thing wrong in their lives is being bored during a 6 week stay in a luxury hotel, then they should think twice if they're on the brink of complaining à la 2005 or in the manner of O'Driscoll yesterday.

[wixfjord]

That's a mini version of the sort of 'you can't be depressed or anxious shur you have a great life' b*%&!cks that has caused issues for years.

It's not at all like that. If any of these players have mental health issues in their day to day lives, then I wish them the absolute best, I absolutely empathize and I hope they have all the support they need. That's an absolutely real thing, and should never be belittled.

However, if the only thing wrong in their lives is being bored during a 6 week stay in a luxury hotel, then they should think twice if they're on the brink of complaining à la 2005 or in the manner of O'Driscoll yesterday.

It absolutely is though Ciaran.

You're annoyed at BOD saying that this unprecedented scenario away from home might be difficult for some of these guys, and you're throwing out terms like 'snowflakes' and 'cop on'.

You're going on about 'luxury hotels' and 'XBoxes' as if they're on a holiday.

But you've shown a total an utter lack of empathy with the difficult scenario that these players find themselves in.

For some reason you've followed the line of 'well loads of other people have suffered more, so these lads can't complain'.

But we know from studying this topic that generally that line of thinking 'oh well others have it worse, cop yourself on' can actually be a problem. In some instances it causes people with actual mental health problems to trivialise themselves and repress them.

Have you ever been locked into a hotel without your family for 6 weeks in stressful, constantly changing environment with a group of 50 people you don't really know on the other side of the world? What about adding the pressure of trying to reach your peak as a rugby player and fight off competition for your place?

No, neither have I.

But I can certainly imagine that no matter how much XBox, table tennis and coffees you have it might start to get tough mentally.

That's what BOD said, and it's a totally fair point that you've been triggered by for whatever reason.

[wixfjord]

However, if the only thing wrong in their lives is being bored during a 6 week stay in a luxury hotel, then they should think twice if they're on the brink of complaining à la 2005 or in the manner of O'Driscoll yesterday.

What would you say if a player came out in the media and said 'I'm going home, I feel this is harming me mentally'.

What if Josh Adams came out and said 'I can't be away from my wife and kid any more, this bubble is too much and I'm not enjoying it, so I'm off back to Wales'.

Or if Tadhg Furlong came out and said 'I can't stand being stuck in a room any longer, this isn't worth it. There's no release valve, it's causing me too much anxiety that I don't need and I don't think it should go ahead'.

What would you say then?

Snowflake? Cop on? Stop complaining? Fragile?

[Oldschoolsocks]

Cop on lads

[Logorrhea]

Cop on lads

Its a good conversation, and they are behaving well, let them at it. Its okay when we don't agree ..................... ye big snowflake

[Oldschoolsocks]

where's the tongue in cheek emoji when you need it

[ronk]

Kelleher called up. Not replacing anyone.

https://www.the42.ie/kelleher-lions-sou ... 3-Jul2021/

[JB1973]

The lions a bit sloppy on the weekend, davies at 9 had a shocker although I didn't think murray was great when he came on either

George was excellent my motm , beirne and laws not far behind and van der merwe and Watson both looked v dangerous when they got the ball

Biggar was poor first half but grew into the game and was very good when the sharks went down to 14 men, now Russell is all but out of the tour it's a straight shoot out between him and farrel , I hope dan gets the nod but I am biased.

The boks preparation must be all over the shop and the lions really should win this series now

[hugonaut]

Very strong South African 'A' side named:
https://www.sarugby.co.za/news-features ... nst-lions/

15 – Willie le Roux
14 – Cheslin Kolbe
13 – Lukhanyo Am (captain)
12 – Damian de Allende
11 – Sbu Nkosi
10 – Morné Steyn
9 – Faf de Klerk
8 – Jasper Wiese
7 – Pieter-Steph du Toit
6 – Marco van Staden
5 – Franco Mostert
4 – Eben Etzebeth
3 – Trevor Nyakane
2 – Joseph Dweba
1 – Steven Kitshoff

Replacements (from):
16 – Malcolm Marx
17 – Coenie Oosthuizen
18 – Vincent Koch
19 – Nicolaas Janse van Rensburg
20 – Rynhardt Elstadt
21 – Herschel Jantjies
22 – Jesse Kriel
23 – Damian Willemse
24 – Kwagga Smith
25 – Elton Jantjies

Bold - started in RWC19 final
Italics - subbed in RWC19 final

[JB1973]

AWJ been training with wales if passes a contact session tomorrow he will rejoin the tour

[ronk]

Wow that's a strong squad. Interesting.

Tour is taking off.

[hugonaut]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... uth-africa

Continuing unrest in SA after former president Jacob Zuma sentenced to prison.