Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

[munster#1]

So at the risk of asking the question again. Given that the Irish line out is now functioning at a much higher level, what does POM offer that others don’t?

It’s fine if you can’t offer anything tangible

I am a big fan of Pete, and he would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me.
I could give my opinion of what he brings to the table that others don’t, but from my experience that would not be well received on here, and I will be quickly told to take my opinion elsewhere.

so instead I will further highlight that the paid professional who continually select him and offer him a contract over other options believe that he is one of the best backrow players in the country, this is the only proof of his credentials that is required.

Pete will finish his career as one of the top capped Irish backrow player (with 74 caps at 31 he already is) along with joining a short list of Irish men who captained the Lions into a test match yet will still be considered a poor player by a vocal minority.

Ah cmon, don’t let the reception of your views stop you sharing your opinion.

What does he bring to the table that others don’t apart from his admittedly good defensive line out (which may no longer be required)

Not a hope buddy, this is a toxic topic on here.
I am sure the usual cohort would be out in force if I even attempt to suggest that POM is better than any of the Leinster backrowers, and this discussion would end up being a. Leinster v Munster one, and I’d end up with another warning.

However, what I will say is that rugby will never get to a stage where having a lineout operator at POMs level will not be required.
I fear he will be missed against England, who will put us under sever pressure.

[Keith]

Hard to see the value of a 2 year contact for POM, with the line out now firing a lot better with POC onboard what else does he bring that others don’t?

Right now he is considered as a starting international when available, so it is hardly a surprise to see him get a central contract, as the people selecting him to start are the same ones deciding on who gets contracts.

Whether a 2 year contract is the right move or not may come into question, but at 31, at 2 year contract seems more than fair given that he will only be 33/34 at the time of his contract expiration.

Unfortunately you are right here, 33/34 age wise for a backrower is only a pup in the eyes of the IRFU when you see an out of form 33 year old wing still being selected. Anyway at least Munster are benefitting from it, he's still valuable to the men in red.

[munster#1]

Hard to see the value of a 2 year contact for POM, with the line out now firing a lot better with POC onboard what else does he bring that others don’t?

Right now he is considered as a starting international when available, so it is hardly a surprise to see him get a central contract, as the people selecting him to start are the same ones deciding on who gets contracts.

Whether a 2 year contract is the right move or not may come into question, but at 31, at 2 year contract seems more than fair given that he will only be 33/34 at the time of his contract expiration.

Unfortunately you are right here, 33/34 age wise for a backrower is only a pup in the eyes of the IRFU when you see an out of form 33 year old wing still being selected. Anyway at least Munster are benefitting from it, he's still valuable to the men in red.

I think you have misinterpreted what I am saying. At 31 POM would most definitely not be considered too old for a backrow player in any country. 33/34 is a different story.

[Keith]

Right now he is considered as a starting international when available, so it is hardly a surprise to see him get a central contract, as the people selecting him to start are the same ones deciding on who gets contracts.

Whether a 2 year contract is the right move or not may come into question, but at 31, at 2 year contract seems more than fair given that he will only be 33/34 at the time of his contract expiration.

Unfortunately you are right here, 33/34 age wise for a backrower is only a pup in the eyes of the IRFU when you see an out of form 33 year old wing still being selected. Anyway at least Munster are benefitting from it, he's still valuable to the men in red.

I think you have misinterpreted what I am saying. At 31 POM would most definitely not be considered too old for a backrow player in any country. 33/34 is a different story.

Fair enough, although I personally wouldn't have him near the irish team (he was brilliant in 2018 vs the ABs and poor since then) it's good to see him stay with Munster.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Unfortunately you are right here, 33/34 age wise for a backrower is only a pup in the eyes of the IRFU when you see an out of form 33 year old wing still being selected. Anyway at least Munster are benefitting from it, he's still valuable to the men in red.

I think you have misinterpreted what I am saying. At 31 POM would most definitely not be considered too old for a backrow player in any country. 33/34 is a different story.

Fair enough, although I personally wouldn't have him near the irish team (he was brilliant in 2018 vs the ABs and poor since then) it's good to see him stay with Munster.

A bit of a passenger some might say?

[Morf]

I am a big fan of Pete, and he would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me.
I could give my opinion of what he brings to the table that others don’t, but from my experience that would not be well received on here, and I will be quickly told to take my opinion elsewhere.

Ah give over. I enjoy that you give a different perspective. I don't feel what your offer is deliberately provocative. However the 'I can't say what I really think or x,y,z will be mad' line is a bit tiresome for me. Some eejits are going to be annoyed no matter what you post because of your name and avatar.

Better someone offering a considered but contrary viewpoint that 50 weighing in with fluff in agreement.

I still think POM has benefited from every possible manner from coaches, pundits & journalists to say 'yeah he deserves to be picked - just don't look at his stats'.

[mildlyinterested]

I am a big fan of Pete, and he would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me.
I could give my opinion of what he brings to the table that others don’t, but from my experience that would not be well received on here, and I will be quickly told to take my opinion elsewhere.

Ah give over. I enjoy that you give a different perspective. I don't feel what your offer is deliberately provocative. However the 'I can't say what I really think or x,y,z will be mad' line is a bit tiresome for me. Some eejits are going to be annoyed no matter what you post because of your name and avatar.

Better someone offering a considered but contrary viewpoint that 50 weighing in with fluff in agreement.

I still think POM has benefited from every possible manner from coaches, pundits & journalists to say 'yeah he deserves to be picked - just don't look at his stats'.

[munster#1]

I am a big fan of Pete, and he would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me.
I could give my opinion of what he brings to the table that others don’t, but from my experience that would not be well received on here, and I will be quickly told to take my opinion elsewhere.

Ah give over. I enjoy that you give a different perspective. I don't feel what your offer is deliberately provocative. However the 'I can't say what I really think or x,y,z will be mad' line is a bit tiresome for me. Some eejits are going to be annoyed no matter what you post because of your name and avatar.

Better someone offering a considered but contrary viewpoint that 50 weighing in with fluff in agreement.

I still think POM has benefited from every possible manner from coaches, pundits & journalists to say 'yeah he deserves to be picked - just don't look at his stats'.

Bit ironic that one of the main protagonists, a poster who has thrown plenty of unwarranted personal insults, including telling me straight out to keep my opinions to myself, would be clapping at the suggestion that it would be possible to provide an opinion on this topic.

It is posters like this lad that have led to this forum being so diluted that you rarely see a controversial or differing view being posed.

Then again, knowing them they are only clapping at the negative comment about POM.

[munster#1]

I am a big fan of Pete, and he would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me.
I could give my opinion of what he brings to the table that others don’t, but from my experience that would not be well received on here, and I will be quickly told to take my opinion elsewhere.

Ah give over. I enjoy that you give a different perspective. I don't feel what your offer is deliberately provocative. However the 'I can't say what I really think or x,y,z will be mad' line is a bit tiresome for me. Some eejits are going to be annoyed no matter what you post because of your name and avatar.

Better someone offering a considered but contrary viewpoint that 50 weighing in with fluff in agreement.

I still think POM has benefited from every possible manner from coaches, pundits & journalists to say 'yeah he deserves to be picked - just don't look at his stats'.

The stats item get thrown a round a bit alright, but stats only give a part of a picture.
If a players role is to be the second man at every breakdown, then they will have a low tackle count and will likely be stuck at the bottom of a ruck for large portions of the game, meaning they will also have a low carry count.

What those 2 stats don’t show is that the second man into a ruck has assisted in providing clean and fast ball for the SH.

It is funny how people use stats to form an argument, when anti Heaslip fans would use his poor stats against him, stats were evil to Heaslip fans, and don’t paint the full picture.
It would appear that those same Heaslip fans are now happy to use stats again, but in defence of their argument that POM is useless.

To say that POM has benefited from every possible manner from coaches, pundits and journalists is a bit odd.
You are essentially stating that these experienced, respected and well paid rugby professionals are all wrong, but how could so many so called experts all be wrong?

[limecat]

Folks, you're at risk of descending into personal stuff here. This is a rugby forum, play the ball not the man!

[Keith]

I am a big fan of Pete, and he would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me.
I could give my opinion of what he brings to the table that others don’t, but from my experience that would not be well received on here, and I will be quickly told to take my opinion elsewhere.

Ah give over. I enjoy that you give a different perspective. I don't feel what your offer is deliberately provocative. However the 'I can't say what I really think or x,y,z will be mad' line is a bit tiresome for me. Some eejits are going to be annoyed no matter what you post because of your name and avatar.

Better someone offering a considered but contrary viewpoint that 50 weighing in with fluff in agreement.

I still think POM has benefited from every possible manner from coaches, pundits & journalists to say 'yeah he deserves to be picked - just don't look at his stats'.

The stats item get thrown a round a bit alright, but stats only give a part of a picture.
If a players role is to be the second man at every breakdown, then they will have a low tackle count and will likely be stuck at the bottom of a ruck for large portions of the game, meaning they will also have a low carry count.

What those 2 stats don’t show is that the second man into a ruck has assisted in providing clean and fast ball for the SH.

It is funny how people use stats to form an argument, when anti Heaslip fans would use his poor stats against him, stats were evil to Heaslip fans, and don’t paint the full picture.
It would appear that those same Heaslip fans are now happy to use stats again, but in defence of their argument that POM is useless.

To say that POM has benefited from every possible manner from coaches, pundits and journalists is a bit odd.
You are essentially stating that these experienced, respected and well paid rugby professionals are all wrong, but how could so many so called experts all be wrong?

We haven't had clean and fast ball from a ruck in 2 years You can be the second man into a ruck and still make more than a couple of meters in carriers and more than a couple of tackles in a game.

[munster#1]

Ah give over. I enjoy that you give a different perspective. I don't feel what your offer is deliberately provocative. However the 'I can't say what I really think or x,y,z will be mad' line is a bit tiresome for me. Some eejits are going to be annoyed no matter what you post because of your name and avatar.

Better someone offering a considered but contrary viewpoint that 50 weighing in with fluff in agreement.

I still think POM has benefited from every possible manner from coaches, pundits & journalists to say 'yeah he deserves to be picked - just don't look at his stats'.

The stats item get thrown a round a bit alright, but stats only give a part of a picture.
If a players role is to be the second man at every breakdown, then they will have a low tackle count and will likely be stuck at the bottom of a ruck for large portions of the game, meaning they will also have a low carry count.

What those 2 stats don’t show is that the second man into a ruck has assisted in providing clean and fast ball for the SH.

It is funny how people use stats to form an argument, when anti Heaslip fans would use his poor stats against him, stats were evil to Heaslip fans, and don’t paint the full picture.
It would appear that those same Heaslip fans are now happy to use stats again, but in defence of their argument that POM is useless.

To say that POM has benefited from every possible manner from coaches, pundits and journalists is a bit odd.
You are essentially stating that these experienced, respected and well paid rugby professionals are all wrong, but how could so many so called experts all be wrong?

We haven't had clean and fast ball from a ruck in 2 years You can be the second man into a ruck and still make more than a couple of meters in carriers and more than a couple of tackles in a game.

So you do think that all of those paid professionals are wrong?

Of all aspects of the Irish and Munster game I would not be picking the breakdown as a weakness.

How you play the game or are asked to play the game will dictate how your stats look on paper.
If a player has low tackle and carry stats, and continuously gets picked over a long period of time, then you would have to think that he is doing what he is tasked to do.

Right now we see Lowe putting boot to ball at every opportunity, that does not mean that he is incapable of carrying at international level.

[Oldschoolsocks]

There’s only one person here making this a Munster v Leinster thingy.

[yellabelly1961]

There’s only one person here making this a Munster v Leinster thingy.

[munster#1]

There’s only one person here making this a Munster v Leinster thingy.

Ah no, just used Lowe for context. Should have used a different player.

This is in no way an interprovincial issue.

[Keith]

The stats item get thrown a round a bit alright, but stats only give a part of a picture.
If a players role is to be the second man at every breakdown, then they will have a low tackle count and will likely be stuck at the bottom of a ruck for large portions of the game, meaning they will also have a low carry count.

What those 2 stats don’t show is that the second man into a ruck has assisted in providing clean and fast ball for the SH.

It is funny how people use stats to form an argument, when anti Heaslip fans would use his poor stats against him, stats were evil to Heaslip fans, and don’t paint the full picture.
It would appear that those same Heaslip fans are now happy to use stats again, but in defence of their argument that POM is useless.

To say that POM has benefited from every possible manner from coaches, pundits and journalists is a bit odd.
You are essentially stating that these experienced, respected and well paid rugby professionals are all wrong, but how could so many so called experts all be wrong?

We haven't had clean and fast ball from a ruck in 2 years You can be the second man into a ruck and still make more than a couple of meters in carriers and more than a couple of tackles in a game.

So you do think that all of those paid professionals are wrong?

Of all aspects of the Irish and Munster game I would not be picking the breakdown as a weakness.

How you play the game or are asked to play the game will dictate how your stats look on paper.
If a player has low tackle and carry stats, and continuously gets picked over a long period of time, then you would have to think that he is doing what he is tasked to do.

Right now we see Lowe putting boot to ball at every opportunity, that does not mean that he is incapable of carrying at international level.

Yes I do think they are wrong just like I thought Joe was completely wrong in his team selections for the world cup and look what happened there. We're only talking about Ireland here and against the big teams the breakdown is absolutely an issue. We can't get quick ball against the top 2/3 sides on the world nor can we slow the opposition down.

[Laighin Break]

"We're only talking about Ireland here" - in a thread about Munster...

[Oldschoolsocks]

"We're only talking about Ireland here" - in a thread about Munster...

its gas sometimes

[ronk]

POM is a very good player, I’m (kinda) not sure whether he’s a 6 or a 7. Just like I’m kinda not sure if Stander is a 6 or an 8.

When you can balance a backrow with him/them in it then it goes well. But sometimes that’s hard and the deficiencies in their games are exposed.

The selection debate has generally revolved around that.

Leinster (and most places) go for physical 6s and ballers at 8. Munster prefer smaller nuisance 6s (Quinlan, POM) and slightly smaller 8s who had great work rates and did minimal balling (Coughlan, Stander, Leamy). The easiest way to balance that was with a 1st class head down ball carrier at 7 like Wallace or SOB, but there aren’t any in Ireland right now, or coming soon. Leavy is a fairly strong carrier but not at that level.

A few players had the backrow locked down hard for a long time in Ireland. Some have gone and the rest aren’t that far behind. There’s a big change coming and none of the next generation are like for like with the last one. The transition has started and it would probably be best to accelerate it rather than push ageing players to change styles to extend their careers.

[munster#1]

Big game for Munster tonight, not a given in any way, but I expect that Munster team to have enough to shade a victory.

Excited to see Conway back, if he can regain last seasons form then he won’t be far from the Irish match day squad.

Hoping for a big game from Casey