Leinster and scrumhalf development
Moderator: moderators
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
Serious lack of top level 9s and nothing coming through. Need to look at bringing in talent. Fardy has been a great signing but will leave at the end of the season. I’m open to correction but this will mean that we have no NIQs which surely affords us some leverage to sign a player, even allowing for the financial situation. Two things need to happen:
1) Sign a little general, Aaron Smith or TJ Perenara
2) As has previously been done with Props and Locks, roll out a focused, scrum half development Programme
Too often, in the big games, our 9s lack the ability to control the game or they act as a handbrake to quick play and continuity. Luke is a fantastic defensive player with a big heart and JGP has lots of zip and also brings a great attitude; however, neither are international standard.
1) Sign a little general, Aaron Smith or TJ Perenara
2) As has previously been done with Props and Locks, roll out a focused, scrum half development Programme
Too often, in the big games, our 9s lack the ability to control the game or they act as a handbrake to quick play and continuity. Luke is a fantastic defensive player with a big heart and JGP has lots of zip and also brings a great attitude; however, neither are international standard.
-
- Leo Cullen
- Posts: 10976
- Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
well they aren't going to have the finances to sign a top NIQ so that's out.#
they have had scrumhalf specific training going on for a few years and a focus on trying to develop quality nines.. with little success.
they have had scrumhalf specific training going on for a few years and a focus on trying to develop quality nines.. with little success.
-
- Bookworm
- Posts: 208
- Joined: May 15th, 2017, 4:23 pm
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
Nick McCarthy back from Munster?
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
Nowhere near good enough, I’m afraid.
Long term inability to develop 9s organically is a big concern. Luke McGrath and John Cooney the only decent product in the professional era and neither are regular 6 Nations first choice; I don’t think this can be said for any other position?
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
How you feel about hookers?
-
- Leo Cullen
- Posts: 10976
- Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
If they have retained Cooney and not lost him during the MOC era.. but they did.
being unable to identify and develop a top quality scrumhalf in the past 5 u20 classes is an issue, can't allow it to extend much longer..
1995: Nick McCarthy
1996: Rowan Osborne
1997:
1998: Hugh O'Sullivan, Patrick Patterson
1999: Cormac Foley
being unable to identify and develop a top quality scrumhalf in the past 5 u20 classes is an issue, can't allow it to extend much longer..
1995: Nick McCarthy
1996: Rowan Osborne
1997:
1998: Hugh O'Sullivan, Patrick Patterson
1999: Cormac Foley
- Laighin Break
- Mullet
- Posts: 1830
- Joined: May 3rd, 2012, 9:35 am
- Location: Scandinavia
- Peg Leg
- Rob Kearney
- Posts: 9823
- Joined: February 1st, 2010, 5:08 pm
- Location: Procrastinasia
- Contact:
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
I think the 2nd choice will be 1st shortly.Laighin Break wrote: ↑December 30th, 2020, 9:21 pmMullet!
It also looks like Leinster will have Ireland's first choice hooker for the coming years (and possibly second choice too in time)
Did you see the player value graphic for the pro##, prem and T14? Hookers are the lowest paid, I do not understand?
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
Daniel Sullivan
Daniel Sullivan
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
He made his debut in 1995, so he’s before the fully professional provinces.Laighin Break wrote: ↑December 30th, 2020, 9:21 pmMullet!
It also looks like Leinster will have Ireland's first choice hooker for the coming years (and possibly second choice too in time)
- Laighin Break
- Mullet
- Posts: 1830
- Joined: May 3rd, 2012, 9:35 am
- Location: Scandinavia
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
Ah come on. He played for Ireland between 2001 and 2005 which was very much in the professional era.ronk wrote: ↑December 31st, 2020, 2:32 amHe made his debut in 1995, so he’s before the fully professional provinces.Laighin Break wrote: ↑December 30th, 2020, 9:21 pmMullet!
It also looks like Leinster will have Ireland's first choice hooker for the coming years (and possibly second choice too in time)
-
- Leo Cullen
- Posts: 10976
- Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
Is the inability to develop top level hookers and scrumhalves linked to poor kill development in the province, both at lineout throwing and scrumhalf passing?
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
Change province to country and you'd be more correct. Top level players in these positions have either been flukes or imports.mildlyinterested wrote: ↑December 31st, 2020, 9:18 am Is the inability to develop top level hookers and scrumhalves linked to poor kill development in the province, both at lineout throwing and scrumhalf passing?
Anyone But New Zealand
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
Blue Man wrote: ↑December 30th, 2020, 5:40 pmNowhere near good enough, I’m afraid.
Long term inability to develop 9s organically is a big concern. Luke McGrath and John Cooney the only decent product in the professional era and neither are regular 6 Nations first choice; I don’t think this can be said for any other position?
Munster owe us a couple of favours ... so Crowley to Leinster !!!
-
- Leo Cullen
- Posts: 10976
- Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
Crowleys a 10/12alanair wrote: ↑December 31st, 2020, 11:28 amBlue Man wrote: ↑December 30th, 2020, 5:40 pmNowhere near good enough, I’m afraid.
Long term inability to develop 9s organically is a big concern. Luke McGrath and John Cooney the only decent product in the professional era and neither are regular 6 Nations first choice; I don’t think this can be said for any other position?
Munster owe us a couple of favours ... so Crowley to Leinster !!!
- LeinsterLeader
- Seán Cronin
- Posts: 3445
- Joined: May 23rd, 2010, 8:51 pm
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
We tend to be prepping a lot of nippy, smallish scrum halfs. I'd like to see them change it up and try to bring through a bigger more physical scrum-half. Ideally joost van der westhuizen but certainly more Isaac Boss then Eoin Redden. I've have no reasoning to think this would work better for us but it would be something different.
But are there any like that out there at schools level with promise........?
Over to you MI?
But are there any like that out there at schools level with promise........?
Over to you MI?
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
He’s still an amateur who went pro rather than having been developed as a pro through a professional provincial system. Keith Wood was a pro player too, as were Malcolm O’Kelly and David Humphreys. But they went to England before the provinces went pro. The guys who never had to choose between amateur AIL/province and pro in England are the ones developed in the pro eraLaighin Break wrote: ↑December 31st, 2020, 8:47 amAh come on. He played for Ireland between 2001 and 2005 which was very much in the professional era.ronk wrote: ↑December 31st, 2020, 2:32 amHe made his debut in 1995, so he’s before the fully professional provinces.Laighin Break wrote: ↑December 30th, 2020, 9:21 pm
Mullet!
It also looks like Leinster will have Ireland's first choice hooker for the coming years (and possibly second choice too in time)
-
- Leo Cullen
- Posts: 10976
- Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
at schools level? eh no one springs to mind..LeinsterLeader wrote: ↑December 31st, 2020, 1:10 pm We tend to be prepping a lot of nippy, smallish scrum halfs. I'd like to see them change it up and try to bring through a bigger more physical scrum-half. Ideally joost van der westhuizen but certainly more Isaac Boss then Eoin Redden. I've have no reasoning to think this would work better for us but it would be something different.
But are there any like that out there at schools level with promise........?
Over to you MI?
there has been two recent players who fit the bigger scrum half mold.. James Kenny(22/Lansdowne) and Rob Gilsenan(20/UCD)
- LeinsterLeader
- Seán Cronin
- Posts: 3445
- Joined: May 23rd, 2010, 8:51 pm
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
Well I suppose if neither of those guys were considered for academy places it's something of an indicator that it may not be the way Leinster want to go.mildlyinterested wrote: ↑December 31st, 2020, 2:13 pmat schools level? eh no one springs to mind..LeinsterLeader wrote: ↑December 31st, 2020, 1:10 pm We tend to be prepping a lot of nippy, smallish scrum halfs. I'd like to see them change it up and try to bring through a bigger more physical scrum-half. Ideally joost van der westhuizen but certainly more Isaac Boss then Eoin Redden. I've have no reasoning to think this would work better for us but it would be something different.
But are there any like that out there at schools level with promise........?
Over to you MI?
there has been two recent players who fit the bigger scrum half mold.. James Kenny(22/Lansdowne) and Rob Gilsenan(20/UCD)
-
- Leo Cullen
- Posts: 10976
- Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
Kenny was in the sub academy for 2 years along with Patterson and Foley.. but couldn't stay healthy.. he's been healthy and very good for Lansdowne since leaving the sub-academy.LeinsterLeader wrote: ↑December 31st, 2020, 2:36 pmWell I suppose if neither of those guys were considered for academy places it's something of an indicator that it may not be the way Leinster want to go.mildlyinterested wrote: ↑December 31st, 2020, 2:13 pmat schools level? eh no one springs to mind..LeinsterLeader wrote: ↑December 31st, 2020, 1:10 pm We tend to be prepping a lot of nippy, smallish scrum halfs. I'd like to see them change it up and try to bring through a bigger more physical scrum-half. Ideally joost van der westhuizen but certainly more Isaac Boss then Eoin Redden. I've have no reasoning to think this would work better for us but it would be something different.
But are there any like that out there at schools level with promise........?
Over to you MI?
there has been two recent players who fit the bigger scrum half mold.. James Kenny(22/Lansdowne) and Rob Gilsenan(20/UCD)
Gilsenan I believe is in the sub-academy this year and is u20 eligible. He struggled with injury last season.
Foley is pretty big by leinster scrumhalf standards, at 5'11 85kg. And it's not like he or HOS are known for their nippy play.
-
- Leo Cullen
- Posts: 10976
- Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am
Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development
Cooney went into more depth about leaving Leinster on recent podcast, was due to re-sign with Leinster after connacht loan but didnt see eye to eye with MOC and was happier in Connacht because of it.