Heineken Cup 2020/21

[Blueberry]

Good point, might be issues alright.....

On the positive side James Lowe will fit right into Disneyland although keeping him off the candy floss might be a challenge.

[Laighin Break]

Donal ("tremenjgeus") Lenehan wants EPCR to sanction teams who field weakened teams in European fixtures. See below:

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2020/121 ... nst-clubs/

I wonder should EPCR impose the sanction on Leinster before or after the match?

I assume there's nothing in the rules stating that clubs have to field strong teams. Would he not look into if it's even possible/legal before making such a ridiculous suggestion*
Why not suggest the Pro14 sanction clubs who field weakened teams too?!

*Or maybe he has, and there is a rule, and I'll have egg on my face

[blockhead]

It's a stupid suggestion for Rugby with the need to rest/rotate (depending if you're in the Pro14/not in Pro14) players through a season.
Is this suggestion from Donal (whom I admire btw) with regard to the Leinster v Northampton game?

[OTT]

It's a stupid suggestion for Rugby with the need to rest/rotate (depending if you're in the Pro14/not in Pro14) players through a season.
Is this suggestion from Donal (whom I admire btw) with regard to the Leinster v Northampton game?

Ah it had to be to do with Munster starting JJ over Healy

[Dave Cahill]

Donal ("tremenjgeus") Lenehan wants EPCR to sanction teams who field weakened teams in European fixtures. See below:

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2020/121 ... nst-clubs/

I wonder should EPCR impose the sanction on Leinster before or after the match?

I assume there's nothing in the rules stating that clubs have to field strong teams. Would he not look into if it's even possible/legal before making such a ridiculous suggestion*
Why not suggest the Pro14 sanction clubs who field weakened teams too?!

*Or maybe he has, and there is a rule, and I'll have egg on my face

Clubs who field weakened teams have been punished in the past, Bourgoin, for example, after fielding weakened teams in games against Leinster and the following season against Munster

[cormac]

I thought that, in previous seasons at least, as long as you selected your strongest 40 (?) players in the initial squad submission you could freely pick* from them for any game. Seem to recall Montpellier were fined for omitting some of their better players entirely from their Challenge Cup squad one year.


* with the usual proviso about properly trained front-row players

[Dexter]

The EPCR made the potential Covid problem worse by having 2 "groups" of 12 teams - so a teams results impact on a lot of teams they don't even play. I know this is also a factor for the best placed 2nd position under the normal format, but it's less of a factor.
A covid issue in a group of 4 teams would be easier to deal with than a group of 12 teams (see RWC19 cancelled group games).
Of all the years to try this, this was NOT the year. I'm not sure how someone didn't think of this.... Doh!

[blockhead]

So specifically what do you want to be done here RTB and Blueberry? What is your answer to this?

True. There is no adjudicated result that would satisfy both parties. Result by jury is the last resort in normal circumstances but in these depressing times its the first. We just have to get on with it and hope to dodge those invisible bullets.

La Rochelle v Bath Rugby – match cancelled ...btw. And due to close contact with a Scarlets player from last week, so it's escalating.

[Dexter]

So specifically what do you want to be done here RTB and Blueberry? What is your answer to this?

True. There is no adjudicated result that would satisfy both parties. Result by jury is the last resort in normal circumstances but in these depressing times its the first. We just have to get on with it and hope to dodge those invisible bullets.

La Rochelle v Bath Rugby – match cancelled ...btw. And due to close contact with a Scarlets player from last week, so it's escalating.

So Scarlets game will have to be cancelled too? What a mess...

Edit: Scarlets Toulon game still showing as going ahead. Scarlets player was a close contact of 12 Bath players, so they couldn't "safely field a squad".

[D4surfer]

From BBC:

“ All sides in this year's tournament agreed to forfeit matches if fixtures could not be fulfilled due to Covid”

[MylesNaGapoleen]

The EPCR made the potential Covid problem worse by having 2 "groups" of 12 teams - so a teams results impact on a lot of teams they don't even play. I know this is also a factor for the best placed 2nd position under the normal format, but it's less of a factor.
A covid issue in a group of 4 teams would be easier to deal with than a group of 12 teams (see RWC19 cancelled group games).
Of all the years to try this, this was NOT the year. I'm not sure how someone didn't think of this.... Doh!

have you thought that one through fully dexter?

in any competition where standings and points scored across pools matter.....it makes little difference if the impacted teams are in pools or in leagues, like they are in this years comp.

a tad harsh to point the finger at EPCR who are trying to make the best of a bad situation.

[heno]

Option 1
Complete games during 6 nations weeks with squads minus internationals.

Option 2
Reduce QF to one weekend - the 2nd of the 2. Complete games on the weekend prior.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Blueberry]

Time sometimes just to be sensible.

Just cancel the tournament this year. It is a total farce already assuming games are forfeited with 28-0 results and hard not to see it getting worse with more games pulled making it even more of a farce.

No one wants to hear this but it is really the only sensible option.

I suggest we give the trophy to Munster as they are tremendous and would have won anyway.

[Laighin Break]

Time sometimes just to be sensible.

Just cancel the tournament this year. It is a total farce already assuming games are forfeited with 28-0 results and hard not to see it getting worse with more games pulled making it even more of a farce.

No one wants to hear this but it is really the only sensible option.

I suggest we give the trophy to Munster as they are tremendous and would have won anyway.

How much money would the clubs and organisations lose out on by doing this?

[Blueberry]

Time sometimes just to be sensible.

Just cancel the tournament this year. It is a total farce already assuming games are forfeited with 28-0 results and hard not to see it getting worse with more games pulled making it even more of a farce.

No one wants to hear this but it is really the only sensible option.

I suggest we give the trophy to Munster as they are tremendous and would have won anyway.

How much money would the clubs and organisations lose out on by doing this?

No idea but really at what point does it become a pointless exercise, 10% of games cancelled, 30% of games cancelled ?? Ultimately if games are cancelled TV companies won't pay for them and punters won't pay subs to watch the odd pointless game of rugby in a farce of a tournament and the whole thing is devalued. Better to put it on ice this year and put out the begging bowl to the government as it is going to be needed anyway and governments seem determined to continue on the current path no matter what waiting until the vaccine is extensively rolled out before any chance of lifting restrictions. EPCR will of course try to keep the show on the road as if they even have a farce of a tournament they all get paid. Should be put into stasis now with a skeleton staff until next season.

Being realistic if we can start a new season next Sept there is a reasonable chance things may be close to back to normal by then and we can all put this mess behind us. Trying to fight through the next few months with endless cancellations and 28-0 games and a madey up format is just daft but then again everything is daft atm so can't really expect common sense to prevail.

Enjoy watching the 'Best Rugby Team at not catching Covid' Cup thingy.

If they want to keep something going they should have put in place a round Robin league format with your winning percentage sorting rankings subject to some controls (min number of games etc) so if you missed a game due to Covid you weren't penalised.

Top 4 could have then had a semi and final with reserve dates etc.

Not like the current situation couldn't have been predicted, with the teams not being in bubbles and testing every 5 seconds inevitable some cases would pop up.

[Dave Cahill]

How much money would the clubs and organisations lose out on by doing this?

It would cost the IRFU a minimum of €5 million euro just from broadcasting (you could also add in prize money of 300k per semifinalist, 400k for a finalist and 600k for a winner). When you consider that they're already down the gate money from the European games, including the big Christmas game, and the commerical activities around each game. It would not be a stretch of any kind to suggest that it would cost the IRFU a minimum of €10 million. Thats a quarter of the professional game budget.

Fortunately for the Union, a significant number of the better, and thus better paid, players are out of contract in each province, so they could be cut without cost, though they'd probably cut half and make up the rest by cutting a half dozen or so younger players per province.

[Blueberry]

Thanks for that info, so in short government bailout of 10 million euro and we put this season on ice and stop the charade.

Could still have some interpros etc and perhaps the 6 nations to keep players active. Could build in plenty of reserve dates but a cross border euro comp being in essence played with a bunch of people outside bubbles was never going to work.

Considering the money being pi**ed down the drain on everything from defective ventilators to useless PPE and the billions being put on the state credit card 10 million is nothing to secure a a major sport and major income generator and for the state in years to come (couple of HCUP qtr finals in Dublin probably generates 10 million in tourist bucks).....

Get POM turning up at Pascal's House with an angry face and it won't be long before Pascal is on the AIB online banking transferring de money over !!

[riocard911]

How much money would the clubs and organisations lose out on by doing this?

It would cost the IRFU a minimum of €5 million euro just from broadcasting (you could also add in prize money of 300k per semifinalist, 400k for a finalist and 600k for a winner). When you consider that they're already down the gate money from the European games, including the big Christmas game, and the commerical activities around each game. It would not be a stretch of any kind to suggest that it would cost the IRFU a minimum of €10 million. Thats a quarter of the professional game budget.

Fortunately for the Union, a significant number of the better, and thus better paid, players are out of contract in each province, so they could be cut without cost, though they'd probably cut half and make up the rest by cutting a half dozen or so younger players per province.

Faced with financial numbers like that I agree with the point you made in the BTTV podcast, Dave, that we're better off muddling thru and doing the best we can. I personally would be distraught, if the current rugby season - however imperfect - were to just scratched with no more games till September. These are difficult conditions for us all and IMO the bit of rugby on de telly to look forward to and enjoy every weekend is keeping me going. I imagine I'm not the only one and assume the same applies to many followers of soccer, GAA etc.

[riocard911]

How much money would the clubs and organisations lose out on by doing this?

It would cost the IRFU a minimum of €5 million euro just from broadcasting (you could also add in prize money of 300k per semifinalist, 400k for a finalist and 600k for a winner). When you consider that they're already down the gate money from the European games, including the big Christmas game, and the commerical activities around each game. It would not be a stretch of any kind to suggest that it would cost the IRFU a minimum of €10 million. Thats a quarter of the professional game budget.

Fortunately for the Union, a significant number of the better, and thus better paid, players are out of contract in each province, so they could be cut without cost, though they'd probably cut half and make up the rest by cutting a half dozen or so younger players per province.

Faced with financial numbers like that I agree with the point you made in the BTTV podcast, Dave, that we're better off muddling thru and doing the best we can. I personally would be distraught, if the current rugby season - however imperfect - were to just scratched with no more games till September. These are difficult conditions for us all; the bit of rugby on de telly to look forward to and enjoy every weekend is keeping me going. I imagine I'm not the only one and assume the same applies to many followers of soccer, GAA etc.

p.s. I concur with the point a previous contributor made on this thread, that in terms of dealing with covid outbreaks the ERCC would have been better creating smaller groups than dividing all the participating teams into two pools.

[Blueberry]

Don't disagree with your sentiments on having something to watch but crowning a champion of Europe this year isn't appropriate in my opinion, just makes a farce of the title.

By all means arrange some interpro cup or some new madey up thing for one year only like the nations cup just so we don't go potty but please don't have a euro cup final when it is a farce.

And we can all hope the 2022 champ is a 5th star for Leinster !!