Glasgow vs Leinster 30/11/2019

[wixfjord]

Looks like nobody who started on Sat trained today from the pics.

Tomane seemed to be training fully and looks like Cronin could be ready for Northampton at least.

[Ruckedtobits]

Looks like nobody who started on Sat trained today from the pics.

Tomane seemed to be training fully and looks like Cronin could be ready for Northampton at least.

But is he ready for Kelleher?

[joooooe]

There is no doubt we'll be sending a weaker team to Glasgow for this one.



After this we have HC, HC, derby (home to pool rivals), derby, derby, HC, HC until the end of January.

The weak(er) teams will go to Glasgow and Limerick, with a fair amount of rotation for Ulster and Connacht at home.

[fourthirtythree]

Yeah, it's nice to remain unbeaten and I hope we fight for it, but it's not worth sacrificing the season for.

[joooooe]

Yeah, it's nice to remain unbeaten and I hope we fight for it, but it's not worth sacrificing the season for.

With restrictions on how many minutes and matches can be played by internationals we might find ourselves using them all up too early in the season and not having them available for big games in April/May (regular season goes on longer in 2020).

[johng]

I don't think it works that way. You get so many minutes per period of the season. After the 6N break there are not many restrictions on the players AFAIK.

[leinsterforever]

Yep I think a Christmas derby in Thomond is the absolute perfect place to give hungry guys like Doris, Connors, Keenan, JOB, R. Kelleher a start.
Maybe not all of them but a side with a mix of them would be great to see.

I don't want to see us full strength down there.

If you look at the side that won there a few years back (with Leavy, ROL, Larmour etc) it seemed to really bring on a few of them.

For me, the two league games that really stand out as opportunities for inexperienced players to step up and grow are Munster in Thomond Park and the Cheetahs in Bloemfontein. Two real out-of-your-comfort-zone tests for any new players involved.

Wouldn't mind seeing a team for Munster something like:

1. Cian Healy, 2. Ronan Kelleher, 3. Michael Bent, 4. James Ryan, 5. Ryan Baird, 6. Josh Murphy, 7. Will Connors, 8. Max Deegan, 9. JGP, 10. Ross Byrne, 11. Jordan Larmour, 12. Conor O'Brien, 13. Garry Ringrose, 14. Fergus McFadden, 15. Hugo Keenan; 16. Bryan Byrne, 17. Ed Byrne, 18. Andrew Porter, 19. Scott Fardy, 20. Caelan Doris, 21. Rowan Osborne, 22. Ciaran Frawley, 23. Jimmy O'Brien

[paddyor]

We're 6 games into the league already and they're going to be missing for 4 but probably 5 due to the 6n (we're touring SA at the end of March) so there's really only a bout 10 games they can play in and we won't need them for some of those(Dragons away). I reckon Ulster will send a weakened team to the RDS and stack the deck for the home derbies. I think it really comes down to who are we prepared to risk ahead of the back to back HEC games. Healy, Furlong(not playing that well tbh), Ryan, VdF, one of Fardy/Ruddock, Sexton, Ringrose (maybe Hensahw but he hasn't played much at all this season) are probably the most valuable players(not a complete list) so you'd expect at least some of them are missing.

Think I'd start Larmour at 15 just to try an ddevelop him a bit more.

A win here would likely kill off Glasgows challenge for top of the pool.

[curates_egg]

Looks like nobody who started on Sat trained today from the pics.

Tomane seemed to be training fully and looks like Cronin could be ready for Northampton at least.

But is he ready for Kelleher?

Like pretty much everyone, I’ve been hugely excited by Kelleher.
On Saturday, I thought he was the cause of our issues in the lineout and scrum. I was at the game though, and haven’t watched back, so it’s maybe a misperception?
If not, I would hold off on writing Cronin’s epitaph just yet. I’m too lazy/busy to check but seem to remember him also scoring lots of tries and making loads of breaks last season? Probably not ready for the glue factory just yet in any case.

[Jonny tight lips]

Will Connors is playing anyway

[Serb]

I’m too lazy/busy to check but seem to remember him also scoring lots of tries and making loads of breaks last season? Probably not ready for the glue factory just yet in any case.

Not sure if you’re joking there but Cronin scored a rake of tries last season, including being the top try scorer in the Champions Cup.

He scored 14 tries in 26 games overall and gained 505 meters in 130 carries (almost 4 meters per carry). I think that’s fairly ok for a front rower [GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

[Ruckedtobits]

The challenge for Leo and his coaches at this point is to balance the degree of integration with the pace of development, particularly for the young guys who have taken the chances, thus far, in their stride.

Looking across the Squad, it is quite feasible to pick two XVs who could travel to Glasgow and get a result. Alternatively, we could pick last Saturday's team and lose, if Warriors hit their straps and our guys aren't quite at the pitch needed for these opponents.

The art of selection at this point is trying to judge what will be the impact and motivational effect of the selection they make, on the performance they get on Saturday evening.

Healy, Kelleher, Porter, Moloney, Toner, Connors, Ruddock, Doris, McGrath, Byrne R, McFadden, Tomane, RO'L, Byrne, Keenan could be the team which would deliver four away points and leave others watching at home, all the while vowing that they will really put it in next week and give 110% during the next chance they get.

Alternatively, we could get a selection of: Byrne, Cronin, Furlong, Ryan, Toner, Murphy, JVdF, Deegan, JGP, Frawley, Lowe, CO'B, Henshaw, Kearney D, Kearney R. IMO, either of these starting XV's could get the job done on Saturday, and possibly with two different Game Plans.

This is a magnificent position for Leo and his staff to be in and probably unmatched anywhere else. However, he and his Coaching Staff are the only ones in a position to know what they are loooking for over the next three weekends and how best to optimise our performances for each of the next three weekends.

Yes, I do envy him but no, I wouldn't change positions. That's a lot of people to please and personalities to manage and it can't be easy - even with huge experience beside you.

[joooooe]

The challenge for Leo and his coaches at this point is to balance the degree of integration with the pace of development, particularly for the young guys who have taken the chances, thus far, in their stride.

Looking across the Squad, it is quite feasible to pick two XVs who could travel to Glasgow and get a result. Alternatively, we could pick last Saturday's team and lose, if Warriors hit their straps and our guys aren't quite at the pitch needed for these opponents.

The art of selection at this point is trying to judge what will be the impact and motivational effect of the selection they make, on the performance they get on Saturday evening.

Healy, Kelleher, Porter, Moloney, Toner, Connors, Ruddock, Doris, McGrath, Byrne R, McFadden, Tomane, RO'L, Byrne, Keenan could be the team which would deliver four away points and leave others watching at home, all the while vowing that they will really put it in next week and give 110% during the next chance they get.

Alternatively, we could get a selection of: Byrne, Cronin, Furlong, Ryan, Toner, Murphy, JVdF, Deegan, JGP, Frawley, Lowe, CO'B, Henshaw, Kearney D, Kearney R. IMO, either of these starting XV's could get the job done on Saturday, and possibly with two different Game Plans.

This is a magnificent position for Leo and his staff to be in and probably unmatched anywhere else. However, he and his Coaching Staff are the only ones in a position to know what they are loooking for over the next three weekends and how best to optimise our performances for each of the next three weekends.

Yes, I do envy him but no, I wouldn't change positions. That's a lot of people to please and personalities to manage and it can't be easy - even with huge experience beside you.

You have poor Dev Toner playing 2 games simultaneously!

[fourthirtythree]

You have poor Dev Toner playing 2 games simultaneously!

And you wouldn't have two Dev Toners? What are you on?

[Oldschool]

This could be a selection that is best described as a making up the numbers.
For a successful HCC you need two 15s that are match fit.
Ergo the bench from the Lyon game plus 7 who weren't in match day 23 to start.
The bench should be a mix of the starting 15, returning injured players and perhaps a number of young guns.

[curates_egg]

I’m too lazy/busy to check but seem to remember him also scoring lots of tries and making loads of breaks last season? Probably not ready for the glue factory just yet in any case.

Not sure if you’re joking there but Cronin scored a rake of tries last season, including being the top try scorer in the Champions Cup.

He scored 14 tries in 26 games overall and gained 505 meters in 130 carries (almost 4 meters per carry). I think that’s fairly ok for a front rower [GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

I just couldn't remember the figures (and wasn't arsed to look them up). I find it a bit ridiculous that the shiny-new-thing brigade has already jettisoned him.
The only way he is not our starting hooker is if he is injured or leaves the province - neither of which happens, I hope.

As for Kelleher, I thought he has looked super so far but that he struggled with his roles in both set pieces on Saturday (lost lineouts, inaccurate throws, hooking issues, popping up...although he was likely targeted in the scrum). To the extent that I was actually hoping for Tracy to come off the bench for about the first time in a while.
I would be honestly interested to find out if that was a false perception based on viewing from the stands, and if those watching on telly had a different perception.
Regardless, no harm for him to already get such a good taste of the pressures at the big time.

[arsebiscuits1]

I just couldn't remember the figures (and wasn't arsed to look them up). I find it a bit ridiculous that the shiny-new-thing brigade has already jettisoned him.
The only way he is not our starting hooker is if he is injured or leaves the province - neither of which happens, I hope.

As for Kelleher, I thought he has looked super so far but that he struggled with his roles in both set pieces on Saturday (lost lineouts, inaccurate throws, hooking issues, popping up...although he was likely targeted in the scrum). To the extent that I was actually hoping for Tracy to come off the bench for about the first time in a while.
I would be honestly interested to find out if that was a false perception based on viewing from the stands, and if those watching on telly had a different perception.
Regardless, no harm for him to already get such a good taste of the pressures at the big time.

What if Kelleher plays better than him on a consistent basis?

I think you're being a bit sensitive to the "shiny-new-thing brigade"

What I am reading is a lot of people rating a young hooker who is currently exceeding expectations of a player just out of the academy.

I'm not sure anyone wants Cronin put out to pasture (myself very much included)

But the reality is Cronin is 34 before the end of this season so it is not that unreasonable for people to cast a more keen eye over the potential successors.

Ultimately, this is professional sport. Whoever offers the most to the team will play. At present this is probably Cronin. But at some point in the future it will be Kelleher. How far into the future depends on who offers more

[curates_egg]

Nice diversion.

[arsebiscuits1]

Nice diversion.

Diversion from where to where? You have an opinion and I gave a different one?

[Gearzbox2]

I just couldn't remember the figures (and wasn't arsed to look them up). I find it a bit ridiculous that the shiny-new-thing brigade has already jettisoned him.
The only way he is not our starting hooker is if he is injured or leaves the province - neither of which happens, I hope.

As for Kelleher, I thought he has looked super so far but that he struggled with his roles in both set pieces on Saturday (lost lineouts, inaccurate throws, hooking issues, popping up...although he was likely targeted in the scrum). To the extent that I was actually hoping for Tracy to come off the bench for about the first time in a while.
I would be honestly interested to find out if that was a false perception based on viewing from the stands, and if those watching on telly had a different perception.
Regardless, no harm for him to already get such a good taste of the pressures at the big time.

What if Kelleher plays better than him on a consistent basis?

I think you're being a bit sensitive to the "shiny-new-thing brigade"

What I am reading is a lot of people rating a young hooker who is currently exceeding expectations of a player just out of the academy.

I'm not sure anyone wants Cronin put out to pasture (myself very much included)

But the reality is Cronin is 34 before the end of this season so it is not that unreasonable for people to cast a more keen eye over the potential successors.

Ultimately, this is professional sport. Whoever offers the most to the team will play. At present this is probably Cronin. But at some point in the future it will be Kelleher. How far into the future depends on who offers more

I’m a little of both column A and column B in this discussion, so I said I’d weigh in!!!
I’ll make no bones about it, I’m a huge Cronin fan, and there does seem to be a lot of “put him out to pasture” type discussion across the forum with the emergence of Kelleher which I do find a bit mad...Cronin was one of our stand out players last season and has a lot to offer still and I’d agree Kelleher looks good but imo slightly untested BUT I also agree that he’s the man in possession of the jersey, has played really well and has huge potential so when Cronin is fit I think it’s up to him to get the jersey back as I think Kelleher has done enough to hold it and rightly so

Just my two cents if even makes sense