Donald Trump - Have your say.

for general chat about stuff

Moderator: moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Laighin Break
Mullet
Posts: 1161
Joined: May 3rd, 2012, 9:35 am
Location: Scandinavia

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by Laighin Break »

It's not that they "chose not to" change the system. There was a strong majority at one point supporting the change among Democrats and Republicans but it was filibustered by the southern states that benefit massively from the electoral college.

Unlikely the Republicans would support the change now after 2000 and 2016 results but it seems like it could change if/when Democrats get a majority. There's already an agreement between 16 (all blue) states on this, but they're still 70 odd seats shy of a majority in the electoral college, so need more states to join up.

User avatar
johng
Devin Toner
Posts: 18410
Joined: March 23rd, 2009, 10:37 pm
Location: Behind You!!

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by johng »


User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 10788
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by ronk »

Easiest way to scrap the electoral college is to get over 50% of the electoral college votes to pick the winner of the national popular vote.

Here the problem becomes the swing states that like being swing states

User avatar
Oldschoolsocks
Isa Nacewa
Posts: 2531
Joined: January 4th, 2015, 10:36 am
Location: Stepping out of the Supernova

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

ronk wrote:
October 31st, 2020, 12:26 pm
Easiest way to scrap the electoral college is to get over 50% of the electoral college votes to pick the winner of the national popular vote.

Here the problem becomes the swing states that like being swing states
watched a good video on this :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYVw9lPiCHQ&t=1238s

The Doc
Mullet
Posts: 1992
Joined: August 11th, 2006, 2:59 pm
Location: Location Location

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by The Doc »

Getting rid of the electoral college requires a constitutional amendment which wouldn't be simple.

There is an initiative to get around the problems with the Electoral College - the National Popular Interstate Compact ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ ... te_Compact). The proposal is that once there are enough states signed up representing 270 votes, then the states would assign their electoal college votes to the popular vote winner

At the moment, 15 States have signed up representing 196 electoral votes. If they had enough states to account for 270 votes, it would remove the problem as any candidate who won the popular vote would have enough electoral college votes to be President.
I like your right leg. A lovely leg for the role.
I've got nothing against your right leg.
The trouble is ... neither have you

User avatar
Peg Leg
Rob Kearney
Posts: 9581
Joined: February 1st, 2010, 5:08 pm
Location: Procrastinasia
Contact:

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by Peg Leg »

johng wrote:
October 31st, 2020, 10:00 am
Very good vid. Captures my feelings on the subject very well.
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
Daniel Sullivan

User avatar
Oldschool
Cian Healy
Posts: 12961
Joined: March 27th, 2008, 1:10 pm

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by Oldschool »

Changing the Electoral college system so that the popular vote decides who the president should be seems, on the face of it, fairly logical and fair.
Changing it because of Trump is madness, he's come and may soon be gone.
So some mature reflection is appropriate.
Starting with the reasons why the founding fathers decided to adopt the EC system.
If you're a hillbilly in the Rockies do you want a hippie in California making the laws for you.
The EC system tries to address that I think.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

User avatar
Oldschool
Cian Healy
Posts: 12961
Joined: March 27th, 2008, 1:10 pm

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by Oldschool »

Peg Leg wrote:
November 2nd, 2020, 9:59 am
johng wrote:
October 31st, 2020, 10:00 am
Very good vid. Captures my feelings on the subject very well.
It's funny alright.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

The Doc
Mullet
Posts: 1992
Joined: August 11th, 2006, 2:59 pm
Location: Location Location

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by The Doc »

Oldschool wrote:
November 2nd, 2020, 10:06 am
If you're a hillbilly in the Rockies do you want a hippie in California making the laws for you.
The EC system tries to address that I think.
It's the balance of House vs Senate that does this - the President doesn't make any laws.
I like your right leg. A lovely leg for the role.
I've got nothing against your right leg.
The trouble is ... neither have you

User avatar
Oldschool
Cian Healy
Posts: 12961
Joined: March 27th, 2008, 1:10 pm

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by Oldschool »

The Doc wrote:
November 2nd, 2020, 10:30 am
Oldschool wrote:
November 2nd, 2020, 10:06 am
If you're a hillbilly in the Rockies do you want a hippie in California making the laws for you.
The EC system tries to address that I think.
It's the balance of House vs Senate that does this - the President doesn't make any laws.
You're splitting hairs.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

The Doc
Mullet
Posts: 1992
Joined: August 11th, 2006, 2:59 pm
Location: Location Location

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by The Doc »

Oldschool wrote:
November 2nd, 2020, 10:49 am
The Doc wrote:
November 2nd, 2020, 10:30 am
Oldschool wrote:
November 2nd, 2020, 10:06 am
If you're a hillbilly in the Rockies do you want a hippie in California making the laws for you.
The EC system tries to address that I think.
It's the balance of House vs Senate that does this - the President doesn't make any laws.
You're splitting hairs.
No I'm not. I'd be splitting hairs if I pointed out that the Hillbillies are in the Appolachian Mountains rather than the Rockies

Senate representation is designed to give small states the same represenation as large ones - exactly to avoid laws being forced on small states by the House of representatives. So the Hillbilly is protected by the entity that passes laws. The electoral college numbers is just an addition of the number of Senate and House representatives. So the small state protection in the Senate number just gets replicated in the electoral college.

And it isn't splitting haors to point out that the President doesn't initiate legislation. The President is reliant on the Congress to initiate laws. So a radical leftie President without significant majorities in both House and Senate can do nothing to impose anything on anyone
I like your right leg. A lovely leg for the role.
I've got nothing against your right leg.
The trouble is ... neither have you

User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 10788
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by ronk »

The Doc wrote:
November 2nd, 2020, 11:32 am
Oldschool wrote:
November 2nd, 2020, 10:49 am

You're splitting hairs.
No I'm not. I'd be splitting hairs if I pointed out that the Hillbillies are in the Appolachian Mountains rather than the Rockies

:green clap:
The electoral college makes the small states even less relevant in the presidential election. The only states that matter are medium-large swing states, especially Pennsylvania right now.

Are candidates going to visit Wyoming? An undecided there may as well stay at home. But every vote counts in a national poll. Local voice is more than covered by 2 senators.

User avatar
Oldschool
Cian Healy
Posts: 12961
Joined: March 27th, 2008, 1:10 pm

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by Oldschool »

Interesting to hear Brendan O'Carroll and EOS on Prime Time last night.
Well worth listening to RTE Player if it's up.
In Ireland people's opinion of the two candidates is 87% Biden and 13% don't knows.
In the US they may not like the candidates but they will vote on their policies.
It's going to be a long night for John23 I suspect, especially if the "don't knows" vote.
Biden is still likely to win.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

User avatar
John23
Enlightened
Posts: 810
Joined: January 15th, 2008, 2:05 pm

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by John23 »

I think what's different to 2016 is that this time round there are less undecideds to flip. In 2016 there is data out there saying in the swing states that the undecideds flipped as much as 75% to 25% in favour of the the orange one and that got him over the line in the key states. This time round there are less don't knows to sway. Easier said that done but all Biden needs to win is to win the same states as Hilary did plus win 3 other states that she lost narrowly. Long night/morning ahead.
“Somedays you're the pigeon, somedays you're the statue.”

User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 10788
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by ronk »

There is also no Comey factor this time around for the undecided.

User avatar
MylesNaGapoleen
Mullet
Posts: 1229
Joined: September 18th, 2009, 11:04 am

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by MylesNaGapoleen »

can't help but wonder if the record turnout of voters (139 million according to the meejya) is because, for the last 4 years, millions have been kicking themselves for not voting in 2016.....when hilary was a gimme.

landslide for sleepy joe.

Ruckedtobits
Shane Jennings
Posts: 5184
Joined: April 10th, 2011, 10:23 am

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by Ruckedtobits »

America is totally split between rural and suburban voters and Trump's statement that he is going to Supreme Court to stop counting because he's ahead before Postal ballots are opened.

It certainly seems like he fears that those postal votes in particular will go against him in places like Pennsylvania & Wisconsin. He certainly seems likely to win in Georgia and Texas and possibly even in Penn. But he is making a total laughing stock of the US - not for the first time.

User avatar
Peg Leg
Rob Kearney
Posts: 9581
Joined: February 1st, 2010, 5:08 pm
Location: Procrastinasia
Contact:

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by Peg Leg »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
November 4th, 2020, 7:54 am
America is totally split between rural and suburban voters and Trump's statement that he is going to Supreme Court to stop counting because he's ahead before Postal ballots are opened.

It certainly seems like he fears that those postal votes in particular will go against him in places like Pennsylvania & Wisconsin. He certainly seems likely to win in Georgia and Texas and possibly even in Penn. But he is making a total laughing stock of the US - not for the first time.
I don't recall a single policy being discussed by Trump in this election. The commentary was pretty much- 'They're gonna...' from both sides, with the news amplifying those concerns. It's too simplistic to say it's Urban (273M) v Rural (57M) thing though. Source Statista

It will be very interesting to see what happens in when the Mail Ballots start to fold into the tally.
Penn. (20) Wis. (10) & Mich. (15) account for 45 EC votes.
There is an avg of 20% to count across all 3, mostly mail in ballots. Trump leading Wis 4% & Mich 6%, they are still in the air with mail ballots to count, but Penn. 13% and likely to remain red.
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
Daniel Sullivan

User avatar
John23
Enlightened
Posts: 810
Joined: January 15th, 2008, 2:05 pm

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by John23 »

Joe is done. Can't see him taking 4 of the remaining 6 states. Some of the talk on CNN reminds me of Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber.
“Somedays you're the pigeon, somedays you're the statue.”

User avatar
Peg Leg
Rob Kearney
Posts: 9581
Joined: February 1st, 2010, 5:08 pm
Location: Procrastinasia
Contact:

Re: Donald Trump - Have your say.

Post by Peg Leg »

John23 wrote:
November 4th, 2020, 10:35 am
Joe is done. Can't see him taking 4 of the remaining 6 states. Some of the talk on CNN reminds me of Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber.
No he's not, Wis. neck and neck now with 10% to count and the majority of the mailed ballots are Blue. Mich. 4% gap, 19% count to go. North Carolina will go to court, 1% 5% to count. Arizona looks nailed on, Nevada looks nailed on. Pennsylvania and Georgia the most at risk.
Some of those states are able to receive and count mailed ballots up to Friday.
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
Daniel Sullivan

Post Reply