Corona Virus

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Oldschool
Cian Healy
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
February 2nd, 2021, 10:58 pm
Some good news from British researchers about the AZ vaccine:

a) The AstraZenaca vaccine retains high efficacy in protecting against the virus for at least three months after the initial jab; and

b) A benefit not originally claimed for the AZ vaccine is that, two weeks after the initial jab, the vaccinated individual has a dramatically reduced capacity to transmit the virus. Precisely how much less transmission is unclear as yet (more research time required) but thus far the estimated reduction is c. 60%.

The bad news for the AZ company is that French Medicine regulators, like their German counterparts, have not approved the vaccine from the Anglo-Swedish company, for over 65s.

No vaccine has yet been trialled and approved from either a French or a German pharmaceutical company.
Uk is very "chipper" about the(ir) Oxford (That's how they refer to it and you wouldn't blame them tbf) vaccine.
They must have similar data on the Pfizer vaccine but perhaps don't want to go public on it because it's not their vaccine.
There is a definite feel good sentiment building in the UK now because their case numbers are really starting to fall which is of direct benefit to us too because of the border with 6 counties.
Either way it's great news for the world because the Oxford vaccine is effective, cheap and easy to distribute.
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Oldschool
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

Anyone think it's strange that no variants have evolved spontaneously in Ireland or at least been reported as such particularly given the recent very high level of local cases as compared to the miniscule number of imported cases if, given the cross contamination, you exclude the NI border that is.
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fourthirtythree
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by fourthirtythree »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
February 2nd, 2021, 10:58 pm


No vaccine has yet been trialled and approved from either a French or a German pharmaceutical company.
BioNTech
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Oldschool
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

fourthirtythree wrote:
February 3rd, 2021, 7:33 pm
Ruckedtobits wrote:
February 2nd, 2021, 10:58 pm


No vaccine has yet been trialled and approved from either a French or a German pharmaceutical company.
BioNTech
Yep and neither the Germans or the French want the Oxford AS vaccine to win out.
Not looking good for that particular aspiration and from a purely personal and selfish point of view they can f^ck right off with that attitude.
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Peg Leg
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Peg Leg »

I heard from someone NPHET adjacent that there is a growing consensus we'll all need the jab every 6 months.
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fourthirtythree
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by fourthirtythree »

AstraZeneca f%~ked up the clinical trials really badly. We wouldn't be hearing about this vaccine if it wasn't an emergency. That's a huge issue.

BioNTech, the first vaccine on the market using the most innovative technique was developed ast February by a German company with German government money. Pfizer then took over as the certification partner as it has a global footprint. Much like AstraZeneca did with the Oxford vaccine.

Mike Ryan has been suggesting for some time now that WHO expect this to be endemic. This means that relying on vaccines as a magic bullet like North Western European heritage countries have been doing will not work.

Not that it was working anyway.
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Oldschool
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

Peg Leg wrote:
February 4th, 2021, 9:43 am
I heard from someone NPHET adjacent that there is a growing consensus we'll all need the jab every 6 months.
NPHET will always give the worst case scenario and are likely to be of the mindset that ALL of us should be vaccinated before restrictions are lifted and then only very slowly. On that basis I would (and do) take anything NPHET say with a large dose of salts. (Masks and TaT are just two very serious examples of where they got it badly wrong and didn't adjust until far too late).

To date there is very little evidence of reinfection after 8 months of actually getting the virus itself.
It's unlikely the vaccines would be any less effective and in addition the vaccine companies are in a position to monitor post test effects on a continuing basis.
On 433's point, AZ did appear to make a bit of a mess of the trials which seems very strange tbh, however we should be thankful that it has worked out or appears to be working out. Am I right in thinking that the main screw up was in the dosage regime and to a lesser extent the age range of the trials or is there more to it?

The WHO have got an awful lot wrong with this virus.
1. Masks again - The mind actually boggles on the advice given on masks. COVID is an airborne, highly infectious virus.
2. What alternative/s is Mike Ryan and WHO suggesting instead of vaccines.
About the one thing that WHO are right about is that we are all in this together and that being the case the world population needs to innoculated as close together as possible - ergo we need an awful more vaccines of the AZ type and quickly so hopefully the Jansen comes through ok.
There certainly haven't been enough jabs administered to claim that a vaccination program won't work, it's worked for other diseases.

The Germans bought a load of Regeneron's anti body treatment recently so maybe they've decided that when they've vaccinated enough (approx 20%) of the population then it's going to be business as usual.

Anyway we live in hope, hopefully.
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domhnallj
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by domhnallj »

Oldschool wrote:
February 4th, 2021, 11:46 am

The WHO have got an awful lot wrong with this virus.
1. Masks again - The mind actually boggles on the advice given on masks. COVID is an airborne, highly infectious virus.
2. What alternative/s is Mike Ryan and WHO suggesting instead of vaccines.
About the one thing that WHO are right about is that we are all in this together and that being the case the world population needs to innoculated as close together as possible - ergo we need an awful more vaccines of the AZ type and quickly so hopefully the Jansen comes through ok.
There certainly haven't been enough jabs administered to claim that a vaccination program won't work, it's worked for other diseases.

The Germans bought a load of Regeneron's anti body treatment recently so maybe they've decided that when they've vaccinated enough (approx 20%) of the population then it's going to be business as usual.

Anyway we live in hope, hopefully.
The Who are worried about vaccine nationalism (of which the Tory party are exponents) and they are right to be so. According to the latest stat I have seen (Private Eye, 5-18 Feb) as of January 23, 39m people in rich countries have been vaccinated while in Africa a total of 25 people have received the vaccine. You're quite correct, we are all in this together but it just doesn't seem like it based on those figures.
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fourthirtythree
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by fourthirtythree »

WHO advice has been based on aerosol transmission since June last year. Irish advice is still based on influenza transmission of droplets and fomites (two metres and wash hands) with nothing about ventilation even yet.

Food plants use recirculating air to save a few bob, people are jammed into direct provision centres, and no guidelines on CO2 meters for schools. The ventilation practices most schools were adopting came from the sector itself, not from the department of education let alone health.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Hornet »

fourthirtythree wrote:
February 4th, 2021, 10:23 am
AstraZeneca f%~ked up the clinical trials really badly. We wouldn't be hearing about this vaccine if it wasn't an emergency.
Link?
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fourthirtythree
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by fourthirtythree »

Quick example
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/busi ... xford.html

US regulators, rightly, were highly critical. There were a series of irregularities in their trials. Some very shoddy and unethical behaviour and a culture of covering up too.
Datta: what have we given?
My friend, blood shaking my heart
The awful daring of a moment's surrender
Which an age of prudence can never retract
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Oldschool
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

domhnallj wrote:
February 5th, 2021, 3:54 pm
Oldschool wrote:
February 4th, 2021, 11:46 am

The WHO have got an awful lot wrong with this virus.
1. Masks again - The mind actually boggles on the advice given on masks. COVID is an airborne, highly infectious virus.
2. What alternative/s is Mike Ryan and WHO suggesting instead of vaccines.
About the one thing that WHO are right about is that we are all in this together and that being the case the world population needs to innoculated as close together as possible - ergo we need an awful more vaccines of the AZ type and quickly so hopefully the Jansen comes through ok.
There certainly haven't been enough jabs administered to claim that a vaccination program won't work, it's worked for other diseases.

The Germans bought a load of Regeneron's anti body treatment recently so maybe they've decided that when they've vaccinated enough (approx 20%) of the population then it's going to be business as usual.

Anyway we live in hope, hopefully.
The Who are worried about vaccine nationalism (of which the Tory party are exponents) and they are right to be so. According to the latest stat I have seen (Private Eye, 5-18 Feb) as of January 23, 39m people in rich countries have been vaccinated while in Africa a total of 25 people have received the vaccine. You're quite correct, we are all in this together but it just doesn't seem like it based on those figures.
The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are not for every country so the statistics quoted are to suit a particular agenda and the AZ was only authorized in the UK in mid/late December with some surrounding controversy as has been mentioned elsewhere, not to mention their well publicized production problems. There are 8Bn people living on this planet - 39m jabs is nothing absolutely nothing. Who does WHO think should have got those jabs, it's just ridiculous nonsense, the plane is only taxiing to its' takeoff position and they're at it.
Tbf I would not dismiss the possibility of vaccine nationalism however........ Even the Tories know that getting their own population innoculated doesn't solve all their problems and that this is a global problem. Tbf to the same Tories, they're the ones who volunteered their population as guinea pigs.
The WHO focus should be twofold and not about who gets it first or stirring shyte.
1. Getting as many (safe, effective etc as a given) vaccines as possible authorized but in particular vaccines of the AZ type that can be more easily used in a range of settings. This now seems to be happening with both the Russian and Jansen ones likely to be authorized. The Chinese vaccines seem to work too but there has to be (or may be)an element of " not rewarding bad behaviour" involved.
2. Building the capacity to supply the vaccines which couldn't really happen until at least one or two vaccines had made the grade.
The WHO focus should be firmly fixed on encouraging countries to make item 2 happen as quickly as possible and never mind throwing stones particularly if it's out of their own glass house.
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Oldschool
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

Curious as what people think of this one.
Should the Taoiseach go to America and meet Joe Biden fir St Patrick's Day and should he get a vaccine before he goes.
My own view is that he should and if he is he should have the vaccine.
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Ruckedtobits
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Oldschool wrote:
February 9th, 2021, 4:26 pm
Curious as what people think of this one.
Should the Taoiseach go to America and meet Joe Biden fir St Patrick's Day and should he get a vaccine before he goes.
My own view is that he should and if he is he should have the vaccine.
+1

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fourthirtythree
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by fourthirtythree »

Of course he should get the vaccine preferentially. Politicians meet people all the time and his job is essential. Biden shouldn't meet him without.
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Twist
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Twist »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
February 9th, 2021, 6:27 pm
Oldschool wrote:
February 9th, 2021, 4:26 pm
Curious as what people think of this one.
Should the Taoiseach go to America and meet Joe Biden fir St Patrick's Day and should he get a vaccine before he goes.
My own view is that he should and if he is he should have the vaccine.
+1
+2 No country would pass up the opportunity to be the first guests of the new US president. I can think of no good argument for not doing this.

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ronk
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by ronk »

No. It’s not business as usual and we should not give that impression.

It sends the wrong signal. Do it remotely.

By that logic should people go off on holidays when they are vaccinated? We have new variants that are affecting vaccinations. We need to limit the spread of new variants, not just the absolute numbers.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by heno »

If he can get a letter from his job saying the business meeting is essential, then it is within the rules and he should go if he wants. I don't see how that sends a message one way or the other to people about going on holidays.

The decision to give him and all politicians the vaccine shound be totally separate and made on the basis of whether we value having the leadership of the country disrupted or not. Over 1000 non group 1 or 2 people have got the vaccine right now. They are not all children of directors of the hospitals.

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hugonaut
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by hugonaut »

I absolutely think that he should go.

Like it or not, the Ireland-American relationship is extremely important to this country economically and politically, and Joe Biden is ferociously pro-Ireland. We are now the only majority English speaking country in the EU, and I would thus suggest that a strong Irish-American relationship stands to benefit us to an even greater extent than it has in the past.

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domhnallj
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by domhnallj »

Not even sure why this is up for debate. If the yanks are happy to have him visit, then give him his jab and get him and the shamrock isolating. We need to put aside our opinions that he is a useless ditherer and max the political capital that the visit gives us.
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