Corona Virus

[Oldschoolsocks]

The average person is quite often a moron though and just as prone to self interest as anyone ....not average. They're the last person you should be asking really. Not sure what makes teachers "undeserving" but I don't think deserving as anything to do with it. Like if you wanted to be really aggressive and suppress the virus you'd hive off a portion of the doses for LEAs with high incidence rates (mostly North Dublin) and start working thru age cohorts there. That'd get case numbers right down.

I’m actually not at all bothered that some teachers got doses that may have gone to waste, get it in as many arms ASAP as far as I’m concerned. Correct me if I’m wrong here, I believe that there is a protocol in place as to how to administer “leftover” doses and the master of the hospital deciding that he can decide who gets this by himself is not in the protocol.

Open to correction as always

Unless there's some sort of perfectly curated list of people for the dose then it is for him to decide. And there's not, even the list they have is at best patchy(see the Daily mail article) Applicants have essentially self selected themselves to be in "X" cohort. And it's always going to be for someone to decide. It doesn't have to be perfect.

Fair enough paddy, so they’re following the underrated “loosey goosey” governance model...

[paddyor]

Would you be more bothered if... Let's make up a scenario... Somebody arranged for vaccinations for their kids teachers (And only the teachers of their kids) when those teachers will in effect be determining the leaving cert assessment this year when one of the kids is doing the leaving

It's not the use of the spare vaccines... I agree, better they are used somehow... It's treating them like all Ireland tickets to be handed out as gifts... like a car salesman

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No. I don't care. I do think the current LC set up is daft and vaccine or no is open to this kind of manipulation anyway. It's already politically interefered with. But ultimately it's an effective workaround and likely 90% or over accurate so whatever I suppose.

Separately from the teachers and the "63 old cancer patient who works for the VHI" there's a rumour the BEacon fella was effectively doling out the vaccines to high fliers like as you say match tickets. SO maybe the former are an indicator of the latter and I do have a problem with the ;atter. But ultimately I come back to the view that we're past or passing the point where quantity is the more important metic than qulaity. So a little bit of benign corruption or even a little more sinsiter doesn't bother me.

[paddyor]

Fair enough paddy, so they’re following the underrated “loosey goosey” governance model...

They're frontline heroes and all but ultimately it's still the HSE. Now tbf at least we didn't go down the New York road of massive fines and jail time for deviating from the "list". And the ISraelis have demostrated the effectiveness of the lossey goosey model. They were pulling in pizza delivery guys passing by to get it done(maybe they got a free pizza the next day but really who cares)

[paddyor]

I see the teachers are out there proving my point that "average" people can't be trusted not to bend to self interest.

[The Doc]

Fair enough paddy, so they’re following the underrated “loosey goosey” governance model...

They're frontline heroes and all but ultimately it's still the HSE. Now tbf at least we didn't go down the New York road of massive fines and jail time for deviating from the "list". And the ISraelis have demostrated the effectiveness of the lossey goosey model. They were pulling in pizza delivery guys passing by to get it done(maybe they got a free pizza the next day but really who cares)

It's not the HSE - it's not even someone with a medical background. It's the CEO, Michael Cullen - son of Des "Penny-Apples" Cullen - with zero medical background who had been using vaccines to sort out a number of groups ahead of the vaccine rollout (creche workers, school, VHI CEO etc) - despite reminders from the HSE to stick to vaccine schedule a few weeks previously.

Very different from the Israeli example which involved one or two spare vaccines at the end of a shift. It's not about the few vaccines here and there - I agree, much better to use them than not. He directed vaccines to teachers who will be involved in deciding his kids leaving cert grades / assessment.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Fair enough paddy, so they’re following the underrated “loosey goosey” governance model...

They're frontline heroes and all but ultimately it's still the HSE. Now tbf at least we didn't go down the New York road of massive fines and jail time for deviating from the "list". And the ISraelis have demostrated the effectiveness of the lossey goosey model. They were pulling in pizza delivery guys passing by to get it done(maybe they got a free pizza the next day but really who cares)

It's not the HSE - it's not even someone with a medical background. It's the CEO, Michael Cullen - son of Des "Penny-Apples" Cullen - with zero medical background who had been using vaccines to sort out a number of groups ahead of the vaccine rollout (creche workers, school, VHI CEO etc) - despite reminders from the HSE to stick to vaccine schedule a few weeks previously.

Very different from the Israeli example which involved one or two spare vaccines at the end of a shift. It's not about the few vaccines here and there - I agree, much better to use them than not. He directed vaccines to teachers who will be involved in deciding his kids leaving cert grades / assessment.

Well that’s a lot more serious

[paddyor]

It's not the HSE - it's not even someone with a medical background. It's the CEO, Michael Cullen - son of Des "Penny-Apples" Cullen - with zero medical background who had been using vaccines to sort out a number of groups ahead of the vaccine rollout (creche workers, school, VHI CEO etc) - despite reminders from the HSE to stick to vaccine schedule a few weeks previously.

Very different from the Israeli example which involved one or two spare vaccines at the end of a shift. It's not about the few vaccines here and there - I agree, much better to use them than not. He directed vaccines to teachers who will be involved in deciding his kids leaving cert grades / assessment.

It is very different than the Israeli example becuase they had multiple distribution centres and weren't still in the process of hiring people 3 months into their vaccine rollout program(like us). The 2 or more doses is something repeated accross multiple centres so you can get well over 20 quite easily. You're never going to get 100% of people showing up for appointments and in our system we're prone to double bookings. Whereas ours is more centralized and increasingly I'm thinking it's a bit of a gravy train for GPs.

Much as my opinion of teachers has fallen in the past few weeks and particualy after their appeal on twitter, I don't think they have that low a self worth. He has no leverage over them(they did nothing wrong) and they've no reason to cheat multiple times over the course of how many years in how many subjects?. I think you're readin too much into that aspect. And the fact he's Bill Cullens son suggests this is more a Billy Big Balls thing.

[brotheroffrank]

So, I am not a healthcare worker, but I do remember that it was this week a year ago that the first wave peaked.....my thought this morning of a good way to say "Thank You" to some of the health-care workers, given the Government hasn't replied to Leinster Rugby's proposal of 2000 Supporters attending and being Antigen tested....how about suggesting 2000 fully vaccinated healthcare professionals attend the Ulster Match, free of charge, as a "thank you" and dry run of all the systems proposed for the antigen testing concept.....? Just an idea but I'd be interested to hear thoughts/feedback......

[Oldschoolsocks]

So, I am not a healthcare worker, but I do remember that it was this week a year ago that the first wave peaked.....my thought this morning of a good way to say "Thank You" to some of the health-care workers, given the Government hasn't replied to Leinster Rugby's proposal of 2000 Supporters attending and being Antigen tested....how about suggesting 2000 fully vaccinated healthcare professionals attend the Ulster Match, free of charge, as a "thank you" and dry run of all the systems proposed for the antigen testing concept.....? Just an idea but I'd be interested to hear thoughts/feedback......

Definitely not the worst idea I’ve seen in this thread.

JK, it’s a good idea

[RoboProp]

So, I am not a healthcare worker, but I do remember that it was this week a year ago that the first wave peaked.....my thought this morning of a good way to say "Thank You" to some of the health-care workers, given the Government hasn't replied to Leinster Rugby's proposal of 2000 Supporters attending and being Antigen tested....how about suggesting 2000 fully vaccinated healthcare professionals attend the Ulster Match, free of charge, as a "thank you" and dry run of all the systems proposed for the antigen testing concept.....? Just an idea but I'd be interested to hear thoughts/feedback......

Definitely not the worst idea I’ve seen in this thread.

JK, it’s a good idea

My sister has been a season ticket holder for over a decade now and is currently vaccinating punters daily, she'd be happy enough with that.

[paddyor]

So the lads in the beacon seem to have had the shinning?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/educati ... -1.4549995

[Oldschool]

Intellectual Rights of the Vaccines.
Really not sure on this one and the quick fix that is being suggested sounds like the morally right thing to do.
But is it feasible or is it just a political sound bite because regardless of who is manufacturing the vaccines there seems to be a lot of supply chain issues not to mention potential quality issues.

[Oldschool]

HSE and DOH hacks.
Any general ideas on what form these hacks take.
Is it the bios that is being attacked in the first instance.
Whither virus, mal and firewall defences.
As a result is it that all their computers have to be reinstalled from scratch.
How are these sort of attacks detected.and stopped.

[ronk]

HSE and DOH hacks.
Any general ideas on what form these hacks take.
Is it the bios that is being attacked in the first instance.
Whither virus, mal and firewall defences.
As a result is it that all their computers have to be reinstalled from scratch.
How are these sort of attacks detected.and stopped.

Spam emails, customized to the targets. Simple first exploit used to bring in the big guns.

Study the systems and plan before triggering.

[Logorrhea]

Spam emails, customized to the targets. Simple first exploit used to bring in the big guns.

Study the systems and plan before triggering.

and in the case of Conti (people are saying its Conti that have attacked the HSE), exfiltrate confidential data before triggering the file encryption.

[FLIP]

HSE and DOH hacks.
Any general ideas on what form these hacks take.
Is it the bios that is being attacked in the first instance.
Whither virus, mal and firewall defences.
As a result is it that all their computers have to be reinstalled from scratch.
How are these sort of attacks detected.and stopped.

Spam emails, customized to the targets. Simple first exploit used to bring in the big guns.

Study the systems and plan before triggering.

Add to that technology mismanagement through lack of updates and poor security standards, and people who will open any attachment that comes their way promising them the world getting away with it because "they aren't good with computers".

[paddyor]

Intellectual Rights of the Vaccines.
Really not sure on this one and the quick fix that is being suggested sounds like the morally right thing to do.
But is it feasible or is it just a political sound bite because regardless of who is manufacturing the vaccines there seems to be a lot of supply chain issues not to mention potential quality issues.

It's nonsense. There's a limited number of people who can manufacture the mRNA vaccines and most of them will be party to the patents or the shareholding in the companies that hold the patents. On top of that, there's a series of ancilliary patents used in the manufacturer of the drugs. The CEO of Moderna said on a voice call with investors it changed nothing for them. If you think about Cuba this makes sense. It churns out Doctors like nobodies business but they've no drug manufaturing to speak of(not helped by US embargoes).

[fourthirtythree]

If nobody can make them, they have nothing to fear from other countries being allowed to make vaccines.

Cuba has a long history of vaccine manufacture, though not mRNA.

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20 ... cal-trials


The pharma industry learnt well the lessons of the AIDS pandemic when they developed cocktails of drugs funded almost entirely with US federal funding (as Moderna's Covid vaccine was) which allowed the disease to kill millions in poorer countries, they cost a fortune, until India started manufacturing and distributing them.

India now makes vaccines for those countries and doesn't have enough for itself.

[paddyor]

Didn't know that about Cuba, it seems my anecdata was unreliable.

India is using the Oxfod/AZ vaccine which was licensed for cost anyway. And they've 1.3bn people so even without exporting they're going to struggle to produce enough for themselves. There's a good article on it here.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-55571793
Tl;dr they keep missing their targets because of supply chain problems and they're unlikely to meet their global commitments.

I'm not against helping developing countries, but I don't think regal edicts declaring something to be free won't do what's needed. QUite happy to throw money at big pharma this time seeing as they saved us from any further incompetence from pubic health officials.

[Oldschool]

Something to discuss over your first few pints.
Is it time to shut down NPHET and send Dr T and the lads back to their day jobs.