Corona Virus

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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Xanthippe wrote: March 28th, 2021, 3:29 pm I find the outrage at the CEO of the Beacon giving spare vaccines to school teachers fascinating - where was all this outrage when the Master of the Coombe gave their excess vaccines to staff’s family members - including his own two sons!
I’m pretty sure there was outrage at that also Xan, I certainly was outraged.

I think this has been inflated by the line from the master of the Beacon that they wanted to give it to people who could make it there in time. That stinks of BS as there is for sure more than one school between Gerard’s and the hospital that could have benefited. The perception is that the first thought from the elite in society was to look after another elite.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Peg Leg »

FLIP wrote: March 28th, 2021, 5:31 pm
Peg Leg wrote: March 28th, 2021, 4:08 pm
Xanthippe wrote: March 28th, 2021, 3:29 pm I find the outrage at the CEO of the Beacon giving spare vaccines to school teachers fascinating - where was all this outrage when the Master of the Coombe gave their excess vaccines to staff’s family members - including his own two sons!
Excess is a hilarious term there. The hse (as competent as they are) should have a process in place for ensuring over subscription for the numbers of vaccines so this doesn't occur. If the vaccines were due to expire someone has f%~ked up and yes it makes sense to use the remainder rather than waste it. It is not correct that one person uses them for personal or political gain or other. So there is a failure at two levels there and both should be reprimanded. I've not been dipping into the news very often for the past few weeks and wasn't aware of the Coombe incident tbh, but the CEO should go.
Many of the vaccines have a limited shelf life once they reach their deployment point and once prepared for injection. If a patient doesn't turn up on the day, the vaccine may be wasted. This is the case of how many people in the UK who have volunteered at the centres have gotten jabs despite not being eligible.
I know, I've not written my response very well. There should be an organised over subscription for the recipients and a protocol for high priority individuals prepared for quick call up or hospital staff.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by FLIP »

Peg Leg wrote: March 28th, 2021, 6:27 pm
FLIP wrote: March 28th, 2021, 5:31 pm
Peg Leg wrote: March 28th, 2021, 4:08 pm

Excess is a hilarious term there. The hse (as competent as they are) should have a process in place for ensuring over subscription for the numbers of vaccines so this doesn't occur. If the vaccines were due to expire someone has f%~ked up and yes it makes sense to use the remainder rather than waste it. It is not correct that one person uses them for personal or political gain or other. So there is a failure at two levels there and both should be reprimanded. I've not been dipping into the news very often for the past few weeks and wasn't aware of the Coombe incident tbh, but the CEO should go.
Many of the vaccines have a limited shelf life once they reach their deployment point and once prepared for injection. If a patient doesn't turn up on the day, the vaccine may be wasted. This is the case of how many people in the UK who have volunteered at the centres have gotten jabs despite not being eligible.
I know, I've not written my response very well. There should be an organised over subscription for the recipients and a protocol for high priority individuals prepared for quick call up or hospital staff.
Yep, that would be the ideal approach. Vaccine rollouts EU wide have been a sh!t show however.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

Peg Leg wrote: March 28th, 2021, 6:27 pm
FLIP wrote: March 28th, 2021, 5:31 pm
Peg Leg wrote: March 28th, 2021, 4:08 pm

Excess is a hilarious term there. The hse (as competent as they are) should have a process in place for ensuring over subscription for the numbers of vaccines so this doesn't occur. If the vaccines were due to expire someone has f%~ked up and yes it makes sense to use the remainder rather than waste it. It is not correct that one person uses them for personal or political gain or other. So there is a failure at two levels there and both should be reprimanded. I've not been dipping into the news very often for the past few weeks and wasn't aware of the Coombe incident tbh, but the CEO should go.
Many of the vaccines have a limited shelf life once they reach their deployment point and once prepared for injection. If a patient doesn't turn up on the day, the vaccine may be wasted. This is the case of how many people in the UK who have volunteered at the centres have gotten jabs despite not being eligible.
I know, I've not written my response very well. There should be an organised over subscription for the recipients and a protocol for high priority individuals prepared for quick call up or hospital staff.
I agree but you have to have the IT systems in place to be able to do that.
The HSE doesn't have those systems and as a result we are going to see a few more screw ups on the way.
I can live with that even though I would prefer it to be otherwise.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Xanthippe »

Oldschoolsocks wrote: March 28th, 2021, 5:38 pm
Xanthippe wrote: March 28th, 2021, 3:29 pm I find the outrage at the CEO of the Beacon giving spare vaccines to school teachers fascinating - where was all this outrage when the Master of the Coombe gave their excess vaccines to staff’s family members - including his own two sons!
I’m pretty sure there was outrage at that also Xan, I certainly was outraged.

I think this has been inflated by the line from the master of the Beacon that they wanted to give it to people who could make it there in time. That stinks of BS as there is for sure more than one school between Gerard’s and the hospital that could have benefited. The perception is that the first thought from the elite in society was to look after another elite.
Didn’t the Master of the Coombe say something similar? There are any amount of older people who live within 5km of the hospital and any amount of Doctors who could have been contacted to provide patients and yet families of staff were called from god knows what distance.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Xanthippe wrote: March 28th, 2021, 7:52 pm
Oldschoolsocks wrote: March 28th, 2021, 5:38 pm
Xanthippe wrote: March 28th, 2021, 3:29 pm I find the outrage at the CEO of the Beacon giving spare vaccines to school teachers fascinating - where was all this outrage when the Master of the Coombe gave their excess vaccines to staff’s family members - including his own two sons!
I’m pretty sure there was outrage at that also Xan, I certainly was outraged.

I think this has been inflated by the line from the master of the Beacon that they wanted to give it to people who could make it there in time. That stinks of BS as there is for sure more than one school between Gerard’s and the hospital that could have benefited. The perception is that the first thought from the elite in society was to look after another elite.
Didn’t the Master of the Coombe say something similar? There are any amount of older people who live within 5km of the hospital and any amount of Doctors who could have been contacted to provide patients and yet families of staff were called from god knows what distance.
Yup, I think he did so maybe there is no difference.

But yeah there was definitely outrage when then Coombe lad decided he would decide what to do with the “leftover” doses
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Xanthippe »

Oldschoolsocks wrote: March 28th, 2021, 8:10 pm
Xanthippe wrote: March 28th, 2021, 7:52 pm
Oldschoolsocks wrote: March 28th, 2021, 5:38 pm

I’m pretty sure there was outrage at that also Xan, I certainly was outraged.

I think this has been inflated by the line from the master of the Beacon that they wanted to give it to people who could make it there in time. That stinks of BS as there is for sure more than one school between Gerard’s and the hospital that could have benefited. The perception is that the first thought from the elite in society was to look after another elite.
Didn’t the Master of the Coombe say something similar? There are any amount of older people who live within 5km of the hospital and any amount of Doctors who could have been contacted to provide patients and yet families of staff were called from god knows what distance.
Yup, I think he did so maybe there is no difference.

But yeah there was definitely outrage when then Coombe lad decided he would decide what to do with the “leftover” doses
Ah okay - I must have missed that.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

Xanthippe wrote: March 28th, 2021, 8:22 pm
Oldschoolsocks wrote: March 28th, 2021, 8:10 pm
Xanthippe wrote: March 28th, 2021, 7:52 pm

Didn’t the Master of the Coombe say something similar? There are any amount of older people who live within 5km of the hospital and any amount of Doctors who could have been contacted to provide patients and yet families of staff were called from god knows what distance.
Yup, I think he did so maybe there is no difference.

But yeah there was definitely outrage when then Coombe lad decided he would decide what to do with the “leftover” doses
Ah okay - I must have missed that.
Yeah there was outrage about it.
It was getting late and they had spare jabs.
They tried to contact the HSE and got messaging.
There were suggestions made that they should have contacted the local Fire Brigade.
Great idea but was that on a backup suggestion lidt, unlikely, so they were making it up.
If you ring your dr outside normal hours you'll get a locum so good luck with identifying a target jab with that.
The default for spare jabs at near close of business should be local garda or fire services, people who are readily contactable as a group and not a list of twenty different people whose dr you probably can't contact.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by heno »

The coombe happened before the hse had published guidance for what to do if this happens. And it was the first publicised event. Both of thoses reasons are why this time its much worse. Also I heard some headline today that they had done similar before. So it wasn't just a one off.
But there must be many centres that have had excess. And gave it to gards, firemen, special needs teachers, etc. The reason we haven't heard about that is there is no story there. Just people making a reasonable attempt to deal with the excess. Its implausible that they couldn't find 20 people that the average person would agree was deserving of it.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

heno wrote: March 28th, 2021, 10:12 pm The coombe happened before the hse had published guidance for what to do if this happens. And it was the first publicised event. Both of thoses reasons are why this time its much worse. Also I heard some headline today that they had done similar before. So it wasn't just a one off.
But there must be many centres that have had excess. And gave it to gards, firemen, special needs teachers, etc. The reason we haven't heard about that is there is no story there. Just people making a reasonable attempt to deal with the excess. Its implausible that they couldn't find 20 people that the average person would agree was deserving of it.

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Hadn't heard that this had happened before at the Beacon, do you have a source.
There was some bad blood between the HSE and the Beacon recently but that had nothing to do with the vaccine.
I'd still like to know how did the Beacon end up with 20 excess vaccines.
I'd also like to know exactly how many vaccines they were given that day.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by The Doc »

Oldschool wrote: March 29th, 2021, 9:12 am I'd still like to know how did the Beacon end up with 20 excess vaccines.
I'd also like to know exactly how many vaccines they were given that day.
I believe they got 200 vaccines but there was a double booking essentially - the 200 people were also booked at another centre. So the Beacon vaccinated 180 standby people and then called the school for the last 20.

I had less of an issue when it happened earlier - it was at the beginning of the roll out and a process wasn't in place, the excess numbers were a lot smaller and at least the family members receiving the vaccines were working in the hospital. With the Beacon, how many GP's and schools are within 5k (not to mention other outlets) - it seemed a bit odd
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by domhnallj »

The figure I heard on the news is that there are 21 GP surgeries in closer proximity to the Beacon than the school - presumably these are all part of the vaccination rollout and would have a list of next-in-line to receive a shot. Getting 20 people to the Beacon would not be difficult.

How many teachers are hanging around the campus at 5pm ready to travel 14km at short notice? The school must have been phoned earlier in the day when it appeared likely there would be surplus shots and then phoned again when 20 were available.

The Beacon has allegedly pulled this stroke another time with childminders for members of the staff's children.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by heno »

Oldschool wrote:
heno wrote: March 28th, 2021, 10:12 pm The coombe happened before the hse had published guidance for what to do if this happens. And it was the first publicised event. Both of thoses reasons are why this time its much worse. Also I heard some headline today that they had done similar before. So it wasn't just a one off.
But there must be many centres that have had excess. And gave it to gards, firemen, special needs teachers, etc. The reason we haven't heard about that is there is no story there. Just people making a reasonable attempt to deal with the excess. Its implausible that they couldn't find 20 people that the average person would agree was deserving of it.

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Hadn't heard that this had happened before at the Beacon, do you have a source.
There was some bad blood between the HSE and the Beacon recently but that had nothing to do with the vaccine.
I'd still like to know how did the Beacon end up with 20 excess vaccines.
I'd also like to know exactly how many vaccines they were given that day.
https://extra.ie/2021/03/28/news/irish- ... bruary/amp

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politic ... 2?mode=amp

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

Thanks for the extra info.
Doesn't sound great tbh
Did the HSE take up the first infringement with the Beacon.

Edit - it would appear that the Beacon followed the correct guidelines in the first incident so we're back to the current incident.

What planet is the Labour Party leader on, calling for the patient treatment contract to be suspended.
Is he going to heal the people affected by such a decision.
Was listening to the CB show this morning, got the distinct impression that the HSE guest didn't want to talk about the Beacon issue and in fact used a phrase like, it was a small number of vaccines late in the day.
(Damien McCallion, it's up on the RTE web site now and conveniently no mention of the comment above, therein lies the problem, it's simply impossible to get the full story about anything anymore)
By the sounds of things, on this occasion certainly, the Beacon got the jabs at short notice.
It would be interesting to know how many of the 180 were actually used on the standby list as opposed to the 20 who weren't. Had they, in fact, exhausted their standby list.
As for the patients in the hospital who didn't get the jab, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a good reason for that decision.
5pm in the evening doesn't sound too late until you realise that the vaccinators were on their days off and giving the jabs voluntarily without remuneration.
Are they not entitled to some consideration too?
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

Reckon the NPHET lads should pull stumps early on their press conference today, post their 700 or so cases and head off home for the weekend.
Because nobody will be paying a blind bit of notice to the them especially in their GAA setting.
Edit - I wonder who the private school snitch is who took the offending photos.

Get your jab in early and don't forget to wear your mask.

PS great news that the Pfizer jab will see off the SA variant too, so much for hotel quarantining, another fig leaf.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by paddyor »

Peg Leg wrote: March 28th, 2021, 4:08 pm
Xanthippe wrote: March 28th, 2021, 3:29 pm I find the outrage at the CEO of the Beacon giving spare vaccines to school teachers fascinating - where was all this outrage when the Master of the Coombe gave their excess vaccines to staff’s family members - including his own two sons!
Excess is a hilarious term there. The hse (as competent as they are) should have a process in place for ensuring over subscription for the numbers of vaccines so this doesn't occur. If the vaccines were due to expire someone has f%~ked up and yes it makes sense to use the remainder rather than waste it. It is not correct that one person uses them for personal or political gain or other. So there is a failure at two levels there and both should be reprimanded. I've not been dipping into the news very often for the past few weeks and wasn't aware of the Coombe incident tbh, but the CEO should go.
No they shouldn't go to much if any effort to ensure that 20 odd vaccines a day get used strictly accoding to protocol. Quite apart from the fact they don't have the IT systems to do the job efficiently they really shouldn't bother that much. It's less than 1% of total vaccines. THis is a by the numbers exercise, just get the vaccines out there asap and if you lose 5% in this fashion that's a cost of doing business. Personally I'd go higher to like 10% but whatever. As Mike Ryan of the WHo said at the outset, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

They don't even have the capacity to cross check the info applicants for various cohorts give(and why would they?). GF is a social worker and all her co-workers applied and some used different criteria ("because they weren't sure of what to put in") so some are in a week, others in a month and more in 2 months. And I see the Dail Heil has a story of thousands of HCWs skipping the que :shock: :lol: Every check they have to do is just an excuse to only do 600 vaccines on a Sunday. Whack them out there asap target 90-95% accuracy and jobs a good'un

I'm sanguine about all this because my mam got vaccinated today(2nd dose in 4 weeks) and the GFs will be done next week. SO that's a lot of my risk dealt with. And I figure we'll be swimming in vaccines in a month so who cares(plenty of people will care and they will all be crushing bores). I'm so tired of the hysteria.

Actually on my mams vaccine. Shee ended up being booked twice. Her firend booked her the first time(and she forgot) and then the GP sent her a text message telling her to book. SO I booked again. GPs site said not to call about the vaccine because they had no access to the list and their lines were being blocked by people calling about the vaccine to the detriment of patients. There's a free slot at 240pm in the Helix on SUnday though she did say it to them today.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by paddyor »

heno wrote: March 28th, 2021, 10:12 pm The coombe happened before the hse had published guidance for what to do if this happens. And it was the first publicised event. Both of thoses reasons are why this time its much worse. Also I heard some headline today that they had done similar before. So it wasn't just a one off.
But there must be many centres that have had excess. And gave it to gards, firemen, special needs teachers, etc. The reason we haven't heard about that is there is no story there. Just people making a reasonable attempt to deal with the excess. Its implausible that they couldn't find 20 people that the average person would agree was deserving of it.

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The average person is quite often a moron though and just as prone to self interest as anyone ....not average. They're the last person you should be asking really. Not sure what makes teachers "undeserving" but I don't think deserving as anything to do with it. Like if you wanted to be really aggressive and suppress the virus you'd hive off a portion of the doses for LEAs with high incidence rates (mostly North Dublin) and start working thru age cohorts there. That'd get case numbers right down.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

paddyor wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 7:16 pm
heno wrote: March 28th, 2021, 10:12 pm The coombe happened before the hse had published guidance for what to do if this happens. And it was the first publicised event. Both of thoses reasons are why this time its much worse. Also I heard some headline today that they had done similar before. So it wasn't just a one off.
But there must be many centres that have had excess. And gave it to gards, firemen, special needs teachers, etc. The reason we haven't heard about that is there is no story there. Just people making a reasonable attempt to deal with the excess. Its implausible that they couldn't find 20 people that the average person would agree was deserving of it.

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The average person is quite often a moron though and just as prone to self interest as anyone ....not average. They're the last person you should be asking really. Not sure what makes teachers "undeserving" but I don't think deserving as anything to do with it. Like if you wanted to be really aggressive and suppress the virus you'd hive off a portion of the doses for LEAs with high incidence rates (mostly North Dublin) and start working thru age cohorts there. That'd get case numbers right down.
I’m actually not at all bothered that some teachers got doses that may have gone to waste, get it in as many arms ASAP as far as I’m concerned. Correct me if I’m wrong here, I believe that there is a protocol in place as to how to administer “leftover” doses and the master of the hospital deciding that he can decide who gets this by himself is not in the protocol.

Open to correction as always
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by The Doc »

paddyor wrote:
Peg Leg wrote: March 28th, 2021, 4:08 pm
Xanthippe wrote: March 28th, 2021, 3:29 pm I find the outrage at the CEO of the Beacon giving spare vaccines to school teachers fascinating - where was all this outrage when the Master of the Coombe gave their excess vaccines to staff’s family members - including his own two sons!
Excess is a hilarious term there. The hse (as competent as they are) should have a process in place for ensuring over subscription for the numbers of vaccines so this doesn't occur. If the vaccines were due to expire someone has f%~ked up and yes it makes sense to use the remainder rather than waste it. It is not correct that one person uses them for personal or political gain or other. So there is a failure at two levels there and both should be reprimanded. I've not been dipping into the news very often for the past few weeks and wasn't aware of the Coombe incident tbh, but the CEO should go.
No they shouldn't go to much if any effort to ensure that 20 odd vaccines a day get used strictly accoding to protocol. Quite apart from the fact they don't have the IT systems to do the job efficiently they really shouldn't bother that much. It's less than 1% of total vaccines. THis is a by the numbers exercise, just get the vaccines out there asap and if you lose 5% in this fashion that's a cost of doing business. Personally I'd go higher to like 10% but whatever. As Mike Ryan of the WHo said at the outset, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

They don't even have the capacity to cross check the info applicants for various cohorts give(and why would they?). GF is a social worker and all her co-workers applied and some used different criteria ("because they weren't sure of what to put in") so some are in a week, others in a month and more in 2 months. And I see the Dail Heil has a story of thousands of HCWs skipping the que :shock: Image Every check they have to do is just an excuse to only do 600 vaccines on a Sunday. Whack them out there asap target 90-95% accuracy and jobs a good'un

I'm sanguine about all this because my mam got vaccinated today(2nd dose in 4 weeks) and the GFs will be done next week. SO that's a lot of my risk dealt with. And I figure we'll be swimming in vaccines in a month so who cares(plenty of people will care and they will all be crushing bores). I'm so tired of the hysteria.

Actually on my mams vaccine. Shee ended up being booked twice. Her firend booked her the first time(and she forgot) and then the GP sent her a text message telling her to book. SO I booked again. GPs site said not to call about the vaccine because they had no access to the list and their lines were being blocked by people calling about the vaccine to the detriment of patients. There's a free slot at 240pm in the Helix on SUnday though she did say it to them today.
Would you be more bothered if... Let's make up a scenario... Somebody arranged for vaccinations for their kids teachers (And only the teachers of their kids) when those teachers will in effect be determining the leaving cert assessment this year when one of the kids is doing the leaving

It's not the use of the spare vaccines... I agree, better they are used somehow... It's treating them like all Ireland tickets to be handed out as gifts... like a car salesman

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by paddyor »

Oldschoolsocks wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 7:51 pm
paddyor wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 7:16 pm
heno wrote: March 28th, 2021, 10:12 pm The coombe happened before the hse had published guidance for what to do if this happens. And it was the first publicised event. Both of thoses reasons are why this time its much worse. Also I heard some headline today that they had done similar before. So it wasn't just a one off.
But there must be many centres that have had excess. And gave it to gards, firemen, special needs teachers, etc. The reason we haven't heard about that is there is no story there. Just people making a reasonable attempt to deal with the excess. Its implausible that they couldn't find 20 people that the average person would agree was deserving of it.

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The average person is quite often a moron though and just as prone to self interest as anyone ....not average. They're the last person you should be asking really. Not sure what makes teachers "undeserving" but I don't think deserving as anything to do with it. Like if you wanted to be really aggressive and suppress the virus you'd hive off a portion of the doses for LEAs with high incidence rates (mostly North Dublin) and start working thru age cohorts there. That'd get case numbers right down.
I’m actually not at all bothered that some teachers got doses that may have gone to waste, get it in as many arms ASAP as far as I’m concerned. Correct me if I’m wrong here, I believe that there is a protocol in place as to how to administer “leftover” doses and the master of the hospital deciding that he can decide who gets this by himself is not in the protocol.

Open to correction as always
Unless there's some sort of perfectly curated list of people for the dose then it is for him to decide. And there's not, even the list they have is at best patchy(see the Daily mail article) Applicants have essentially self selected themselves to be in "X" cohort. And it's always going to be for someone to decide. It doesn't have to be perfect.
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