Latest poll and FF

[orfeo]

Jabba the Health sprayed with red paint by protestors today.

A taste of things to come?

That was bang out of order, no place for that.

Harney should have walloped her with the shovel..I would.

She has the poisoned chalice of portfolios and is actually one of the better ones out there.

and a SF councillor accusing Mary Harney of having blood on her hands is beyond irony , how do we elect these people.

[BlueArmyOriginal]

and a SF councillor accusing Mary Harney of having blood on her hands is beyond irony , how do we elect these people.

Irony indeed but she's not a SF councillor, too much of a fundamentalist idiot even for them. She quit SF cos they werent fenian enough for her!

[suisse]

and a SF councillor accusing Mary Harney of having blood on her hands is beyond irony , how do we elect these people.

Superb. Just can't make that sh!t up. Like the quote from Charlie Wilson's War; "You know you've reached rock bottom when you're told you have character flaws by a man who hanged his predecessor in a military coup."

[leinster80]

but we just don't pay the taxes needed to fund the day-to-day running of such a service.

Funding of the HSE has risen by something like 60% in the last few years and services have got worse.
Something is not right there. There should be more than enough money to provide a decent service. The problem is it's being wasted on the wrong things.

Risen by 60% from what, surely the initial figure wasn't too high.

I am sure you are right and there is wastage in the system and hopefully the current economic situation will allow changes to be brought in (if the unions takes their guns away from the heads of the Irish people). However, at the end of the day people want to be seen and looked after in a timely manner which means more doctors and nurses, and that will surely cost more money.

[leinster80]

but we just don't pay the taxes needed to fund the day-to-day running of such a service.

Funding of the HSE has risen by something like 60% in the last few years and services have got worse.
Something is not right there. There should be more than enough money to provide a decent service. The problem is it's being wasted on the wrong things.

Spot on. Unions bleating about how this redundancy plan for clerical/admin staff will affect "front-line services"= puke-inducing nonsense.

The funny thing about it, I am guessing the redundancy program will be oversubscribed. Are the Unions even in touch with the majority of workers, sometimes the people who shout the loudest don't always represent the views of the majority.

"They (Unions) say the timescales are very tight, and this type of decision on whether to take redundancy or early retirement required people to have more than a two-week period to decide."
I think they are more concerned about losing 5,000 membership fees than the effect on front line services.

[Oldschool]

but we just don't pay the taxes needed to fund the day-to-day running of such a service.

Funding of the HSE has risen by something like 60% in the last few years and services have got worse.
Something is not right there. There should be more than enough money to provide a decent service. The problem is it's being wasted on the wrong things.

Risen by 60% from what, surely the initial figure wasn't too high.

I am sure you are right and there is wastage in the system and hopefully the current economic situation will allow changes to be brought in (if the unions takes their guns away from the heads of the Irish people). However, at the end of the day people want to be seen and looked after in a timely manner which means more doctors and nurses, and that will surely cost more money.

Where exactly tho, is that money supposed to come from?

[simplythebest]

Risen by 60% from what, surely the initial figure wasn't too high.

I am sure you are right and there is wastage in the system and hopefully the current economic situation will allow changes to be brought in (if the unions takes their guns away from the heads of the Irish people). However, at the end of the day people want to be seen and looked after in a timely manner which means more doctors and nurses, and that will surely cost more money.

Yes, but. We apparently have 17,000 Administrators. 17,000. Think about it. What the hell are they all doing? I could run the Health Service in this country with 1,700. Nah, 700 persons. 17,000 administrators is 680,000 man hours per week. We have a population of 4,000,000 people in Ireland. How many are sick at any one time? I've no idea, but lets guess at 5%. So that's 200,000 at any one time. For each one of those sick people you have an administrator doing 3 hours and 24 minutes of work. Doing bloody what? I want to know. Filling out VHI forms? What? The unions want assurances that contractors and/or temporary workers will not be brought in after the 5,000 redundancies. Are they for real? I don't think we need to bring in contractors/temporary staff to play solitare.
In regard to more Doctors and Nurses. Let's look at the facts. About 6 years ago or so, the Gov. introduced the National Treatment Purchase Fund (NTPF) to deal with the waiting lists which were endless at the time. This fund effectively was a mechanism which allowed the Gov. to pay a Consultant Doctor money in his/her private capacity to treat a patient, (very many of these patients were going to die while on the waiting list). What happened? Correct, within three years waiting lists were by and large completely eradicated. What does that tell you. It tells you that there is in fact enough capacity in the system to treat all people getting sick, (and don't forget that the resources needed to work through a backlog are much more that standing still or just holding the position). The only thing that was different was that Doctors were being paid extra to treat the people that they should have been (and were being paid for) treating in the first place. So these Consultants can spin the facts whatever way they want to, but the fact remains that when they were paid extra to treat people, waiting lists disappeared. They attack Mary Harney at every opportunity (and I don't think MH is very good at PR), simply because they do not like the (THEIR) status quo being challenged.

[Oldschool]

I have long held the belief that FF would sacrifuce the country to save itself.
On that basis - FF will risk bringing in the IMF rather than making the cuts that are necessary.
I believe somewhere in the region of 5Bn in "adjustments" is required and the balance between cuts and taxes has to be right.
FF will not do it, the IMF will come in and FF will endeavour to blame the IMF for the cuts that will follow.

Now the questions is - Will the IMF (or some other external body)be better or worse than FF.
Much better IMO, because they have more experience in dealing with these problems (they should be the experts).
They look at things like OAP is 190 in Ireland and something a good deal less in other countries.
This is not tenable so cut. etc etc.

Any views?

[Broken Wing]

don't think the turning of the sod on a new childrens hospital was the right time to make such a protest.

It's not a children's hospital and the people who wanted to protest peacefully about the loss of services in Cherry Orchard were locked outside to ensure their voices couldn't be heard.

I have no time for SF or Éirigí policies but I have no time for Mary Harney either. This notion that she's a good health minister is garbage. PPARS anyone? Cervical cancer vaccine? Trolley times? Nursing Homes scandal? (And now pay for your nursing home care out of your children's inheritance?) Stealing money from pensioners? Brand new hospital wings sitting empty and unused for years? The bureaucratic nightmare that is the HSE? MRSA? The inhuman treatment of CF patients? Closing hospitals and removing services to ensure long ambulance journeys for emergency patients? The HSE skills scandal? The only half decent thing she's done is the national treament purchase fund (which often purchases the treatment in private hospitals here and not just in the UK) and that's just a way of avoiding providing a decent level of service here. Decent health minister my entire ass.

[Mackman15]

The only half decent thing she's done is the overseas treament purchase fund (which often purchases the treatment in private hospitals here) and that's just a way of avoiding providing a decent level of service here. Decent health minister my entire ass.

Which of itself is a gilt edged, Government-backed waiting list. The consultants know that routine proceedures that could be knocked out the following week if they were so inclined can be put out by 5 1/2 months. The appointments are made for the week following the lapsing of the 6 months and a full private consultancy fee is paid. Meanwhile, the poor individual fraught with worry has needlessly endured 6 months of fear of the unknown.

[Mackman15]

Dr. Jim McDaid has resigned his Dail seat. So now there's four by-elections to be held.

February Election, anyone?

[leinster80]

Risen by 60% from what, surely the initial figure wasn't too high.

I am sure you are right and there is wastage in the system and hopefully the current economic situation will allow changes to be brought in (if the unions takes their guns away from the heads of the Irish people). However, at the end of the day people want to be seen and looked after in a timely manner which means more doctors and nurses, and that will surely cost more money.

Yes, but. We apparently have 17,000 Administrators. 17,000. Think about it. What the hell are they all doing? I could run the Health Service in this country with 1,700. Nah, 700 persons. 17,000 administrators is 680,000 man hours per week. We have a population of 4,000,000 people in Ireland. How many are sick at any one time? I've no idea, but lets guess at 5%. So that's 200,000 at any one time. For each one of those sick people you have an administrator doing 3 hours and 24 minutes of work. Doing bloody what? I want to know. Filling out VHI forms? What? The unions want assurances that contractors and/or temporary workers will not be brought in after the 5,000 redundancies. Are they for real? I don't think we need to bring in contractors/temporary staff to play solitare.
In regard to more Doctors and Nurses. Let's look at the facts. About 6 years ago or so, the Gov. introduced the National Treatment Purchase Fund (NTPF) to deal with the waiting lists which were endless at the time. This fund effectively was a mechanism which allowed the Gov. to pay a Consultant Doctor money in his/her private capacity to treat a patient, (very many of these patients were going to die while on the waiting list). What happened? Correct, within three years waiting lists were by and large completely eradicated. What does that tell you. It tells you that there is in fact enough capacity in the system to treat all people getting sick, (and don't forget that the resources needed to work through a backlog are much more that standing still or just holding the position). The only thing that was different was that Doctors were being paid extra to treat the people that they should have been (and were being paid for) treating in the first place. So these Consultants can spin the facts whatever way they want to, but the fact remains that when they were paid extra to treat people, waiting lists disappeared. They attack Mary Harney at every opportunity (and I don't think MH is very good at PR), simply because they do not like the (THEIR) status quo being challenged.

Maybe the reason they 'need' 17,000 administrators is because of the absurd burecratic systems in place. Surely, more stream lined systems can be implemented. I seen some crazy situations when I worked in a public sector organisation... filling out an expense report (on paper!!), it getting checked by local administartor, then being forward to local administrator manager to be checked before being sent to the overall organisations finance department and then being re-imbursed for the expenses.

[fourthirtythree]

Dr. Jim McDaid has resigned his Dail seat. So now there's four by-elections to be held.

February Election, anyone?

How long can the government deny democratic process for? I'm a bit surprised at people's disapproval of people voicing their protest in an environment where democratic process is not allowed. How long has the longest of those seats been vacant for? The government is now lacking in a mandate.

[Mackman15]

Dr. Jim McDaid has resigned his Dail seat. So now there's four by-elections to be held.

February Election, anyone?

How long can the government deny democratic process for? I'm a bit surprised at people's disapproval of people voicing their protest in an environment where democratic process is not allowed. How long has the longest of those seats been vacant for? The government is now lacking in a mandate.

Good Question - I think its the first Donegal Seat vacted by 'The Cope' but that's only by memory. You could say Seamus Brenan's but that was filled.... Ahem, temporarily.

[Leinsterman]

Maybe the reason they 'need' 17,000 administrators is because of the absurd burecratic systems in place. Surely, more stream lined systems can be implemented. I seen some crazy situations when I worked in a public sector organisation... filling out an expense report (on paper!!), it getting checked by local administartor, then being forward to local administrator manager to be checked before being sent to the overall organisations finance department and then being re-imbursed for the expenses.

Sounds ridiculous alright.
I fill in my own expenes online and my boss approves them. I have to keep a paper copy of them but that's in case they're audited (we also scan them in too for back-up purposes).
Then one of the finance guys ensures everything is ok, gives the final aproval to payroll and our system then arranges electronic payment via payroll.
Nioce and streamlined ... and quick!!

[leinster80]

Maybe the reason they 'need' 17,000 administrators is because of the absurd burecratic systems in place. Surely, more stream lined systems can be implemented. I seen some crazy situations when I worked in a public sector organisation... filling out an expense report (on paper!!), it getting checked by local administartor, then being forward to local administrator manager to be checked before being sent to the overall organisations finance department and then being re-imbursed for the expenses.

Sounds ridiculous alright.
I fill in my own expenes online and my boss approves them. I have to keep a paper copy of them but that's in case they're audited (we also scan them in too for back-up purposes).
Then one of the finance guys ensures everything is ok, gives the final aproval to payroll and our system then arranges electronic payment via payroll.
Nioce and streamlined ... and quick!!

Yeah, it can be simple. Where I work at the moment everyone gets a master card linked to their bank account. They use it for expenses and scan reciepts in to the online system to mark against charges on the card. I never have to get re-imbursed (whole level of administration gone there) and if receipts are not in the system then the expense on the card automatically comes from my paycheck.

[Leinsterman]

Yeah, it can be simple. Where I work at the moment everyone gets a master card linked to their bank account. They use it for expenses and scan reciepts in to the online system to mark against charges on the card. I never have to get re-imbursed (whole level of administration gone there) and if receipts are not in the system then the expense on the card automatically comes from my paycheck.

Sounds better again!
Great system.

[Dave Cahill]

Yeah, it can be simple. Where I work at the moment everyone gets a master card linked to their bank account. They use it for expenses and scan reciepts in to the online system to mark against charges on the card. I never have to get re-imbursed (whole level of administration gone there) and if receipts are not in the system then the expense on the card automatically comes from my paycheck.

Sounds better again!
Great system.

Better than ours.

We have to submit proposed expenses in advance, get those approved. Then when the trip or whatever is finished, you submit your expenses, with receipts and the preapproval. Then they go through every penny spent that wasn't on the pre approval. Then they reject them. Then, after you've explained that they'll get their PC(s) and Laptops back when they pay you what you're owed or its going on ebay, they approve your expenses. Then they attempt to transfer the wrong amount to your account, because to their utter surprise 'southern ireland' doesn't use sterling. Then Diners Club transfer your account to a debt collection agency because at this point its been nearly 6 months since the expenses were incurred. Then you sue the company in the small claims court, then you finally get a judgement against them and they pay off the Diners Club bill and penalties.

Then the next time they need you to travel, you can't because you can't get a Diners Club card.


(all the above has happened to me except the robbing PCs thing. That was a collegue)

[Slipper1]

Yeah, it can be simple. Where I work at the moment everyone gets a master card linked to their bank account. They use it for expenses and scan reciepts in to the online system to mark against charges on the card. I never have to get re-imbursed (whole level of administration gone there) and if receipts are not in the system then the expense on the card automatically comes from my paycheck.

Sounds better again!
Great system.

Couldn't do that in the HSE....

If they get a CC, then they'll have to remember a 4 digit pin, that wasn't in their original terms of contract so they'll either strike over that or look to get more money to ease the inconvenience of the drama taken to learn the 4 numbers and potential wear & tear on their fingers from entering said 4 numbers into a non union approved terminal.

There's also no way they could then scan the receipts, as that is done by the scanning personnel department and to do that job themselves they would be depriving the scanning department of work and so would have to strike in support of their colleagues who management are attempting to force out of a job by redistributing work without prior consultation. But at least that could be solved with the negotiation of an extra payment and the redistribution of personnel in the scanning department to other departments.

and finally there is no way that unvouched expenses could be taken from pay-cheques without prior approval of the "unvouched expenses deduction committee" subsection of the union, whose rep only comes in on a Wednesday between 3pm - 3.15 unless there is a group meeting on and he arrives early at 10.20 just in time for the second tea break of the day at 10.30.

So its back to the same way we do it for everyone please - no change please, it is disruptive.

[leinster80]

Yeah, it can be simple. Where I work at the moment everyone gets a master card linked to their bank account. They use it for expenses and scan reciepts in to the online system to mark against charges on the card. I never have to get re-imbursed (whole level of administration gone there) and if receipts are not in the system then the expense on the card automatically comes from my paycheck.

Sounds better again!
Great system.

Couldn't do that in the HSE....

If they get a CC, then they'll have to remember a 4 digit pin, that wasn't in their original terms of contract so they'll either strike over that or look to get more money to ease the inconvenience of the drama taken to learn the 4 numbers and potential wear & tear on their fingers from entering said 4 numbers into a non union approved terminal.

There's also no way they could then scan the receipts, as that is done by the scanning personnel department and to do that job themselves they would be depriving the scanning department of work and so would have to strike in support of their colleagues who management are attempting to force out of a job by redistributing work without prior consultation. But at least that could be solved with the negotiation of an extra payment and the redistribution of personnel in the scanning department to other departments.

and finally there is no way that unvouched expenses could be taken from pay-cheques without prior approval of the "unvouched expenses deduction committee" subsection of the union, whose rep only comes in on a Wednesday between 3pm - 3.15 unless there is a group meeting on and he arrives early at 10.20 just in time for the second tea break of the day at 10.30.

So its back to the same way we do it for everyone please - no change please, it is disruptive.

Sad but true. However, from my time in the public sector this cr@p does annoy many employess as well. They don't shout the loudest though, they usually keep the head down and get on with their job.