Israeli commando raid on Gaza aid convoy kills 10

[Eristic]

I cant believe this hasnt been discussed yet
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... king4.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middl ... 95359.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/10195838.stm

Turkey have taken a very confrontational stance on this, I can imagine a situation similar to the Cuban missile crisis occurring (except the Turks would be bringing medical aid and building supplies instead of missiles), after that who knows.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/turkey-threa ... 743-2.html

[sarah_lennon]

Shameful act. I believe Sweden have ejected the ambassador.

[IanD]

Shameful act. I believe Sweden have ejected the ambassador.

I believe we should too. This boat was in international waters and so makes this an act of piracy. Why do we need any relationship with a country that makes Robert Mugabe look rational and open minded? Pull our ambassador home too. Think of the savings.

I know the Jews have had a hard time through out history and not just with the Nazis but why kill so many people? Are the keeping score? When the hit 6 million plus non Jews will they call it quits?

[Eristic]

The Jews have suffered at the hands of pretty much everyone since the days of King David, they have the right to be aggrieved but killing innocent people, be they palistinian or turkish humanitarians.
This lady was on the flotilla, I'm pretty sure not the boat that violence broke out in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unjQOGie5Vg

This speech was made during the conflict back in 2009, it answers your question, Ian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8

[deco]

The Israels have become what they hate - Nazis.

[ronk]

I cant believe this hasnt been discussed yet
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... king4.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middl ... 95359.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/10195838.stm

Turkey have taken a very confrontational stance on this, I can imagine a situation similar to the Cuban missile crisis occurring (except the Turks would be bringing medical aid and building supplies instead of missiles), after that who knows.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/turkey-threa ... 743-2.html

What's to discuss? It was murder, designed to intimidate, possibly botched slightly by killing too many people &/or (more likely) that they couldn't obfuscate enough of the story.

[Eristic]

I cant believe this hasnt been discussed yet
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... king4.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middl ... 95359.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/10195838.stm

Turkey have taken a very confrontational stance on this, I can imagine a situation similar to the Cuban missile crisis occurring (except the Turks would be bringing medical aid and building supplies instead of missiles), after that who knows.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/turkey-threa ... 743-2.html

What's to discuss? It was murder, designed to intimidate, possibly botched slightly by killing too many people &/or (more likely) that they couldn't obfuscate enough of the story.

The possible consequences, where Ireland or Irish people should stand, how the Israeliis managed to do this and what purpose they had intercepting them in international waters. How can Israel detain foreigners they captured in international waters?
The Irish/Malaysian boat the Rachel Corrie will be coming up to the coast of Gaza in 2 days and they plan to continue on their course regardless of what happened yesterday.

I thought the story of the murder, as you say and I agree, of 16 international civilians by an aggressive, propoganda spewing, human right's breaching, war crime committing nation merited a discussion.

[sarah_lennon]

Israel is a State. They are bound by International Law but nothing will happen while the US continues it's stance on this.

I wouldn't always have wholly subscribed to the Free Palestine movement but many, like me who saw two sides to a story cannot see beyond this.

[Hickiefan]

Agree with Sarah. It's an open sore for the UN though.

[Broken Wing]

Saw the Israeli ambassador on Six One yesterday. Essentially it was all Hamas' fault for firing 10,000 rockets and Israel has the right to defend itself from wheelchair deliveries.

[Sauvignon Blank]

As has been said above , an act of piracy in international waters. Dont expect anything other than a rap on the knuckles for the Israeli's in private and a load of old sabre rattling in public.

If the West had balls they would eject all Israeli Diplomats ASAP.

What is most absurd is listening to these various Ambassadors and their party lines...'we were defending ourselves on that boat from knives, hatchets etc'

[Broken Wing]

Now now. The heavily armed Israeli pirates, I mean commandos, only murdered people in self defence when they boarded the ship in international waters.

[West Brit]

I have a question that's been bugging me for ages about this aid, which is sort of related to this incident. I'm coming in peace, it's a question I honestly don't know the answer to, and is in no way trying to blame any one side. It's not a leading question, and there's probably a very simple answer, although if your answer includes the phrase "zionist lobby" or an equivalent phrase about the other side I'm probably going to ignore it.

Why is this aid not sent through Egypt? They have a land border with Gaza. And if Egypt refuse to open the border to aid, why do they not cop as much abuse as Israel?

Ok, that was two questions. There's probably very good answers to these questions, I just don't know them.

[ronk]

I have a question that's been bugging me for ages about this aid, which is sort of related to this incident. I'm coming in peace, it's a question I honestly don't know the answer to, and is in no way trying to blame any one side. It's not a leading question, and there's probably a very simple answer, although if your answer includes the phrase "zionist lobby" or an equivalent phrase about the other side I'm probably going to ignore it.

Why is this aid not sent through Egypt? They have a land border with Gaza. And if Egypt refuse to open the border to aid, why do they not cop as much abuse as Israel?

Ok, that was two questions. There's probably very good answers to these questions, I just don't know them.

They can't just open the border. Israel are controlling it from the Gaza side. Some aid is getting in that way but it's a longer, tougher route to transfer everything overland. Also, despite promises to allow aid in, Israel have frequently blocked it, delayed it, put up roadblocks and imposed wild arbitrary restrictions (such as allowed canned meats but not canned fruit) with no real purpose except awkwardness.

[West Brit]

I have a question that's been bugging me for ages about this aid, which is sort of related to this incident. I'm coming in peace, it's a question I honestly don't know the answer to, and is in no way trying to blame any one side. It's not a leading question, and there's probably a very simple answer, although if your answer includes the phrase "zionist lobby" or an equivalent phrase about the other side I'm probably going to ignore it.

Why is this aid not sent through Egypt? They have a land border with Gaza. And if Egypt refuse to open the border to aid, why do they not cop as much abuse as Israel?

Ok, that was two questions. There's probably very good answers to these questions, I just don't know them.

They can't just open the border. Israel are controlling it from the Gaza side. Some aid is getting in that way but it's a longer, tougher route to transfer everything overland. Also, despite promises to allow aid in, Israel have frequently blocked it, delayed it, put up roadblocks and imposed wild arbitrary restrictions (such as allowed canned meats but not canned fruit) with no real purpose except awkwardness.

Thanks, I didn't realise that Israel was controlling the border from the Gaza side. I knew it would be something easy. I'm just wary of asking a question like that and getting 500 answers saying "the Zionist lobby in Washington" and another 500 saying "the Gazans should stop firing rockets". It's gets everybody nowhere, especially when you just want a simple answer.

[sarah_lennon]

There's a video here put forward by the Israelis. Shows the attack on their soldiers that led to the shootings. No images of that provided

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2 ... -activists

[Broken Wing]

The IDF have posted a few videos on YouTube showing their heavily armed commandos being assaulted by those on board the ship. They highly trained and well armed soldiers were attacked with iron bars and even a chair. At one stage a stun grenade was thrown at them. The two guns "found" on the ship were taken from the IDF's elite troops by those on board the ship. No doubt the stun grenade was obtained the same way.

This violent attempt to prevent their ship being boarded by heavily armed troops, authorised to use lethal force, in international waters proves the aid convoy's claims to be peaceful was just lies, apparently.

[Eristic]

I have a question that's been bugging me for ages about this aid, which is sort of related to this incident. I'm coming in peace, it's a question I honestly don't know the answer to, and is in no way trying to blame any one side. It's not a leading question, and there's probably a very simple answer, although if your answer includes the phrase "zionist lobby" or an equivalent phrase about the other side I'm probably going to ignore it.

Why is this aid not sent through Egypt? They have a land border with Gaza. And if Egypt refuse to open the border to aid, why do they not cop as much abuse as Israel?

Ok, that was two questions. There's probably very good answers to these questions, I just don't know them.

They can't just open the border. Israel are controlling it from the Gaza side. Some aid is getting in that way but it's a longer, tougher route to transfer everything overland. Also, despite promises to allow aid in, Israel have frequently blocked it, delayed it, put up roadblocks and imposed wild arbitrary restrictions (such as allowed canned meats but not canned fruit) with no real purpose except awkwardness.

Thanks, I didn't realise that Israel was controlling the border from the Gaza side. I knew it would be something easy. I'm just wary of asking a question like that and getting 500 answers saying "the Zionist lobby in Washington" and another 500 saying "the Gazans should stop firing rockets". It's gets everybody nowhere, especially when you just want a simple answer.

I had a big long answer all written for your question, but it took me so long my account had logged out.
Ronk answered it better anyway.

[Eristic]

There's a video here put forward by the Israelis. Shows the attack on their soldiers that led to the shootings. No images of that provided

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2 ... -activists

I think this video is the most comprehensive view of the events, if only it had translations for when they weren't speaking english.
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/A ... 0110.shtml
Now, the editing may have been out of sequence, but it seems both the IDF and the activists are fighting after the white flag was raised.

[Broken Wing]

Egypt opened its border with the Gaza Strip today, letting Palestinians cross until further notice amid a storm of international criticism of Israel's blockade of the enclave. Egypt's Rafah crossing point is the only border post from Gaza that is not fully controlled by Israel. Cairo has opened it only sparingly since Hamas Islamists, who are allied to Egypt's opposition, seized control in Gaza three years ago.

Israel's deputy ambassador, Daniel Carmon, told the UN Security Council the flotilla was "anything but" a humanitarian mission. Its organisers "cynically used the guise of humanitarian aid to send a message of hate and to implement violence," he said.
The organisers, some of whom he said were linked to terrorist organisations, had forced Israel to launch its operation, which had been intended as "a preventive measure to counter illegal breakage of the blockade," Mr Carmon said.