Rugby is eating itself.

[MylesNaGapoleen]

So, the semi finals for the URC are sorted. As is the final of the European competitions. Yet, it would be safe to say, we have had just 1 out of 4 URC quarter finals that one could call competitive on friday night. As for the European competitions, they have been a farce.

True, we're heading back to the old (favoured) pool system for the European competitions next season.
True, the South African teams have spiced up the URC.
It's also true that lobsided games with zero competitiveness wins over no new fans.
There are way too many uncompetitive games and I don't think it's being unfair to say that the European Champions Cup final will be, perhaps, the only genuinely competitive game the competition has seen since round 1.

Now I hear the World XV is kicking off this year...the same year as the world cup.

Rugby is eating itself and I know so many who are so fed up with subscribing to multiple paywall channels, just to catch the different competitions, that have said feck it and just pirate-watch now, they are losing core, proper, Rugby fans.

[neiliog93]

I'm not sure I agree with all of your conclusions, but I would say there is a noticeably greater concentration of ability in a smaller number of clubs (and, actually, international teams) in the last few years. Gone are the days when a strong Leinster team might fear a real possibility of defeat against proud Premiership teams like Gloucester or Leicester, or decent-standard French teams like Racing 92, Bordeaux, Lyon, Montpellier, etc.

[MylesNaGapoleen]

I'm not sure I agree with all of your conclusions, but I would say there is a noticeably greater concentration of ability in a smaller number of clubs (and, actually, international teams) in the last few years. Gone are the days when a strong Leinster team might fear a real possibility of defeat against proud Premiership teams like Gloucester or Leicester, or decent-standard French teams like Racing 92, Bordeaux, Lyon, Montpellier, etc.

fair point. I think the big things bugging me recently is the constant tinkering with the competition formats...the fragmentation of rights....and the lack of genuine competitive matches.

I think they should leave the 6Nations alone and the new annual World XV calendar will not produce much in the way of compelling, competitive match-ups. It will turn sports fans off rugby, nudging it further into a niche sport status, rather than "growing the game".

The URC quarters this weekend reminds me that, despite it being far more enjoyable than english premiership dross, it's still not that competitive...with only 1 or two teams likely to win the finals. There's a certain farcical element to the league with Leinster so far ahead of all the rest. The heineken champions cup is similar. with 4 mostly lobsided quarter final matches played out in half empty stadiums, which doesn't come across well.

The fragmentation of rights really bugs me..I had three subscriptions up until recently, to catch URC & HEINO & TOP 14 games.

Apart from that. everything is grand.

[ronk]

URC have done a pretty good job of having a subscription to catch games and terrestrial broadcasting. It's the Heineken Cup that went the other way, even to the point of originally splitting across BT and Sky.

[MylesNaGapoleen]

URC also have their UCRTV, which is a good initiative, as was ECPR tv...but you're still looking at multiple subs to catch URC & European games..if you have perms to use those. I tend to watch a lot of games...not just Leinster games, so I appreciate those (I'm in Switzerland). I bounce around a lot. usually to London, where I can't use those apps because of BT. Their PAYG is pricey. Pain in the arse but maybe I'm an unusual example. An edge case, as they call it in the dotcom world.

And yeah, you're right, URC have pushed out more games to terrestrial. I notice ITV and Channel 4 in england had a few heino games. Not many. Perhaps the ECPR lads will head in the same direction as URC.

[Schumi]

I only have one subscription to see all the European and URC games. BT sport on NowTV comes with Premier Sports included.

[MylesNaGapoleen]

I only have one subscription to see all the European and URC games. BT sport on NowTV comes with Premier Sports included.

that's handy. didn't know about the NowTV package including premier sports (that now called viaplay, right?).

[enby]

Event though ( or perhaps because ) the next Lions squad will have an unprecedented number of Irish players, I'd be happy to see the Lions discontinued. I'd also get rid of last 16 round in HC and would be against SA joining 6N.

Less is more

[riocard911]

Event though ( or perhaps because ) the next Lions squad will have an unprecedented number of Irish players, I'd be happy to see the Lions discontinued. I'd also get rid of last 16 round in HC and would be against SA joining 6N.

Less is more

+1

[MylesNaGapoleen]

Event though ( or perhaps because ) the next Lions squad will have an unprecedented number of Irish players, I'd be happy to see the Lions discontinued. I'd also get rid of last 16 round in HC and would be against SA joining 6N.

Less is more

agree with all your points.

6N winner v Rugby Championship winner match each year + Heino winner v Super rugby winner, instead of the Lions every 4 years would work better for me. I enjoyed watching the lions tours...but don't buy into the sentimental guff about tradition etc.

They're going back to pools for the heino next season. straight into quarters from pool stages. The only way they reduce the dead rubbers or lobsided 5-pointer gimmes is to reduce the amount of teams that qualify for the pool stages, but, that won't happen. Still, pools into quarters is better than the recent format.

I've heard SA in 6N mentioned a lot. I hope it doesn't happen. As an aside, I don't get why SA teams are allowed in the European comps. URC makes sense, just, but, not the European comps. How is that going to work next season with the pool stages? French teams worried about their top 14 position will just send their academy players.

[MylesNaGapoleen]

correction: they are keeping the round of 16 next season.
https://www.epcrugby.com/2023/03/30/epc ... announced/


2023/24 weekends
Round 1 – 8/9/10 December 2023
Round 2 – 15/16/17 December 2023
Round 3 – 12/13/14 January 2024
Round 4 – 19/20/21 January 2024

Round of 16 – 5/6/7 April 2024
Quarter-finals – 12/13/14 April 2024
Semi-finals – 3/4/5 May 2024

[Dexter]

https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/06/27/r ... f-moments/

Interesting points from Oz and very valid imo, for the game in general

[ronk]

https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/06/27/r ... f-moments/

Interesting points from Oz and very valid imo, for the game in general

I dunno. The issue I'd see more is replaying a try to attempt to catch someone out on that law (unless the officials had questions and were letting it run).

You're delaying the game to stop something from happening. There are cases where it's necessary but it doesn't need to be an aggressive attempt to cancel out tries. You can win an argument and still be worse off. Fussy refereeing is an issue. The maul thing is different, that's a preference for one phase of the game over another and in itself is damaging to the interests of the game.

It's also a real hard offence to call on replay. It needs to coordinate exact timing of someone 10 m to the side and 20m+ back from where the ball is thrown. The defence can go as soon as he goes (extremely rare to see called, but it's in the laws) and also can have a tail gunner 2m to the side and 15m back.

[Dexter]

I'm not really referring to the specific offense, just the gist of the article and the points about the maul.

[Dexter]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... al-hearts/

More food for thought on the way rugby is going. It's Power vs Skill balance discussion again.

[Morf]

Fewer subs and maximum number of forwards on bench.

SA 7 + 1 showed very clearly what must be curtailed.

[jezzer]

I don't get whats wrong with the 7+1 bench, or 8+0 for that matter.

The reason nobody does it, is its massively risky.

I don't really buy that it makes the game more dangerous either.

Sounds to me more like fear than concern for the game when people get worked up about it.

[Flash Gordon]

I don't get whats wrong with the 7+1 bench, or 8+0 for that matter.

The reason nobody does it, is its massively risky.

I don't really buy that it makes the game more dangerous either.

Sounds to me more like fear than concern for the game when people get worked up about it.

The Boks did something innovative and it paid out. Two things about that, the first that it is risky as you say - your backs have to cover multiple positions but you could have a wing forward playing centre, maybe that's ok, the main issue is that you lose half backs. The second, they showed their hand before the tournament, teams can prepare for that tactic.

The player welfare argument is rubbish in my view. Does it really make any difference from a player welfare point of view if you stick 125kg lad Centre on the bench just because he's a back?

[Ruckedtobits]

I don't get whats wrong with the 7+1 bench, or 8+0 for that matter.

The reason nobody does it, is its massively risky.

I don't really buy that it makes the game more dangerous either.

Sounds to me more like fear than concern for the game when people get worked up about it.

.....
The player welfare argument is rubbish in my view. Does it really make any difference from a player welfare point of view if you stick 125kg lad Centre on the bench just because he's a back?

It may do if you're putting an entire new front five onto the pitch against a fatigued, but brave opposition, unchanged, after 60+ minutes

[Laighin Break]

Yeah there's no real reason people are against it except for the "rugby values" thing. I also don't get people worrying about it - "SA can bring on 6/7 forwards", it's only 1 or 2 more than Ireland would be bringing on.
Murray Kinsella was saying (paraphrasing here) how scary/daunting that must be for an opposition pack, but do we really think James Ryan would be thinking "Oh no, Etzebeth is going off now and Kleyn is coming on in his place!"?