Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

[blockhead]

Interestingly, I’m hearing that they are also in talks with an IQ player based on the UK.

I’d say the Toulouse game was a big eye opener on the requirement to strengthen that position.

Come on man, its been Munsters gaping hole for a decade now.
You don't have to be a 3rd generation prop to know that.

[munster#1]

Interestingly, I’m hearing that they are also in talks with an IQ player based on the UK.

I’d say the Toulouse game was a big eye opener on the requirement to strengthen that position.

Come on man, its been Munsters gaping hole for a decade now.
You don't have to be a 3rd generation prop to know that.

I was more thinking that it would have prompted the powers that be that it is a requirement that Munster get a TH prop as opposed to it just being a nice to have

[sunshiner1]

If Munster are allowed to sign a TH. I think it should be with the understanding that Archer is definitely 3rd place from next season on with French/Knox/Salona been given the chance to get serious minutes under their belt. It's ridiculous it's gone on this far.

[riocard911]

If Munster are allowed to sign a TH. I think it should be with the understanding that Archer is definitely 3rd place from next season on with French/Knox/Salona been given the chance to get serious minutes under their belt. It's ridiculous it's gone on this far.

100%. Ryan upping sticks is a damning indictment, IMO.

[munster#1]

If Munster are allowed to sign a TH. I think it should be with the understanding that Archer is definitely 3rd place from next season on with French/Knox/Salona been given the chance to get serious minutes under their belt. It's ridiculous it's gone on this far.

Agreed.

Archer, should be used as an in case of emergency type player, with one of the 3 younger players being earmarked as a long term option at 3, thus giving them considerable and valuable minutes.

[wixfjord]

If Munster are allowed to sign a TH. I think it should be with the understanding that Archer is definitely 3rd place from next season on with French/Knox/Salona been given the chance to get serious minutes under their belt. It's ridiculous it's gone on this far.

Agreed.

Archer, should be used as an in case of emergency type player, with one of the 3 younger players being earmarked as a long term option at 3, thus giving them considerable and valuable minutes.

Which is something that Munster's coaching ticket (including Rowntree) have consistently failed to do for the last two seasons.

The Archer/Ryan rotation policy is a meme at this stage.

If Knox can't do better than the cr@p Archer served up last week (as one of Munster's most senior players) then there must be serious issues with him.

[munster#1]

If Munster are allowed to sign a TH. I think it should be with the understanding that Archer is definitely 3rd place from next season on with French/Knox/Salona been given the chance to get serious minutes under their belt. It's ridiculous it's gone on this far.

Agreed.

Archer, should be used as an in case of emergency type player, with one of the 3 younger players being earmarked as a long term option at 3, thus giving them considerable and valuable minutes.

Which is something that Munster's coaching ticket (including Rowntree) have consistently failed to do for the last two seasons.

The Archer/Ryan rotation policy is a meme at this stage.

If Knox can't do better than the cr@p Archer served up last week (as one of Munster's most senior players) then there must be serious issues with him.

I am not privy to how well or poorly Knox is doing in training, but I would say that it is fair to say that he hasn’t been tearing up trees.

Just looking at the other 2 front row positions, it is clear that players were given opportunities to develop, with Josh W playing 19 games this season including starting in 2 HC matches.

Additionally, Munster played academy Hooker in 7 games whilst simultaneously giving Barron 21 appearances.

In both positions, players leap frogged more senior players, with Josh being selected ahead of Loughman and both hookers being selected ahead of crowd favourite KOB.
Indicating that it’s not a fear of developing players, but more likely that they do not have faith in Knox or Salanoa at this point.

[wixfjord]

Agreed.

Archer, should be used as an in case of emergency type player, with one of the 3 younger players being earmarked as a long term option at 3, thus giving them considerable and valuable minutes.

Which is something that Munster's coaching ticket (including Rowntree) have consistently failed to do for the last two seasons.

The Archer/Ryan rotation policy is a meme at this stage.

If Knox can't do better than the cr@p Archer served up last week (as one of Munster's most senior players) then there must be serious issues with him.

I am not privy to how well or poorly Knox is doing in training, but I would say that it is fair to say that he hasn’t been tearing up trees.

Just looking at the other 2 front row positions, it is clear that players were given opportunities to develop, with Josh W playing 19 games this season including starting in 2 HC matches.

Additionally, Munster played academy Hooker in 7 games whilst simultaneously giving Barron 21 appearances.

In both positions, players leap frogged more senior players, with Josh being selected ahead of Loughman and both hookers being selected ahead of crowd favourite KOB.
Indicating that it’s not a fear of developing players, but more likely that they do not have faith in Knox or Salanoa at this point.

Neither of those players were given considerable valuable minutes this year, so Munster now are in the ridiculous position of having Archer at starting TH (!) and then three almost totally unproven guys behind.

Whatever way you look at it, it's a failure to give these guys opportunities and a reluctance to look beyond two guys who aren't great and are ageing, one of whom is selling.

[Topdawg]

Just been informed by a source who is usually right, that Munster have been given the green light to sign and NIQ TH.

Supposedly they have been in talks with a French based prop.
Thinking logically it would likely be someone who comes recommended by Prendergast, I just can’t think who it might be.

Being NIQ it could be anyone, but if it was Irish Qualified player based in France Daniel Brennen would be the obvious choice.

Will be interesting if they get a THP.

[munster#1]

Which is something that Munster's coaching ticket (including Rowntree) have consistently failed to do for the last two seasons.

The Archer/Ryan rotation policy is a meme at this stage.

If Knox can't do better than the cr@p Archer served up last week (as one of Munster's most senior players) then there must be serious issues with him.

I am not privy to how well or poorly Knox is doing in training, but I would say that it is fair to say that he hasn’t been tearing up trees.

Just looking at the other 2 front row positions, it is clear that players were given opportunities to develop, with Josh W playing 19 games this season including starting in 2 HC matches.

Additionally, Munster played academy Hooker in 7 games whilst simultaneously giving Barron 21 appearances.

In both positions, players leap frogged more senior players, with Josh being selected ahead of Loughman and both hookers being selected ahead of crowd favourite KOB.
Indicating that it’s not a fear of developing players, but more likely that they do not have faith in Knox or Salanoa at this point.

Neither of those players were given considerable valuable minutes this year, so Munster now are in the ridiculous position of having Archer at starting TH (!) and then three almost totally unproven guys behind.

Whatever way you look at it, it's a failure to give these guys opportunities and a reluctance to look beyond two guys who aren't great and are ageing, one of whom is selling.

That’s the point. They weren’t given minutes, but just saying that does not mean that Munster are unwilling to develop players.

For me, on the outside looking in it looks like it is believed that they are either not ready or not able to play at the required level.

Looking at it and trying to apply logic, Salanoa has had a horrid time with injury, which would stunt anyones development, and given his late switch to the sport, he was already at a disadvantage.

Knox is still relatively young, and has also had his injury issues.
But even with that, he has 25 appearances to date, which is not great, but not bad either for an injury hampered 23 year old TH.
As a direct comparison, Abdaladze at 3 years Knox’s senior has only been given 17 appearances despite the fact that Leinster have a shallow depth pool when the internationals are away.


TH has always been a problem position in Ireland, with all 4 provinces continuously looking to make signings there.

[munster#1]

Just been informed by a source who is usually right, that Munster have been given the green light to sign and NIQ TH.

Supposedly they have been in talks with a French based prop.
Thinking logically it would likely be someone who comes recommended by Prendergast, I just can’t think who it might be.

Being NIQ it could be anyone, but if it was Irish Qualified player based in France Daniel Brennen would be the obvious choice.

Will be interesting if they get a THP.

Being 100% honest I have seen very little of Brennan.
Any idea how he is going?

[OTT]

They haven’t signed a centre in about two months maybe they could get one thrown in as part of any deal.

[The Doc]

Just been informed by a source who is usually right, that Munster have been given the green light to sign and NIQ TH.

Supposedly they have been in talks with a French based prop.
Thinking logically it would likely be someone who comes recommended by Prendergast, I just can’t think who it might be.

Being NIQ it could be anyone, but if it was Irish Qualified player based in France Daniel Brennen would be the obvious choice.

Will be interesting if they get a THP.

Being 100% honest I have seen very little of Brennan.
Any idea how he is going?

Isn't he Loose Head?

He's still making his way through the espoirs. If he was coming into a setup with 2 decent props ahead of him and he was going to get some game time it would be fine. But he'd only add to the roster of unproven young lads in Munster as far as I can make out


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[munster#1]

Being NIQ it could be anyone, but if it was Irish Qualified player based in France Daniel Brennen would be the obvious choice.

Will be interesting if they get a THP.

Being 100% honest I have seen very little of Brennan.
Any idea how he is going?

Isn't he Loose Head?

He's still making his way through the espoirs. If he was coming into a setup with 2 decent props ahead of him and he was going to get some game time it would be fine. But he'd only add to the roster of unproven young lads in Munster as far as I can make out


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Again, not sure about him.
I remember watching him at U20 level and thinking that he was a talent lost to Ireland, but I haven’t followed his pro career at all.

[wixfjord]

That’s the point. They weren’t given minutes, but just saying that does not mean that Munster are unwilling to develop players.

For me, on the outside looking in it looks like it is believed that they are either not ready or not able to play at the required level.

Looking at it and trying to apply logic, Salanoa has had a horrid time with injury, which would stunt anyones development, and given his late switch to the sport, he was already at a disadvantage.

Knox is still relatively young, and has also had his injury issues.
But even with that, he has 25 appearances to date, which is not great, but not bad either for an injury hampered 23 year old TH.
As a direct comparison, Abdaladze at 3 years Knox’s senior has only been given 17 appearances despite the fact that Leinster have a shallow depth pool when the internationals are away.


TH has always been a problem position in Ireland, with all 4 provinces continuously looking to make signings there.

Leinster don't have an issue at TH though, given they've produced the best Irish TH of the pro era and Porter, along with having a Samoan captain for league games. So that's a moot point.

Munster haven't handled their TH situation well, and have not given game time to the guys they will now need to be ready and able to play in their European 23.

Knox has 300 minutes this year. Next season he'll be one injury to a pretty mediocre 34 year old away from being starting TH in every game, to be backed by a guy who has never started a pro rugby game.

That's a major succession planning failure no matter how you look at it.

[Topdawg]

Being NIQ it could be anyone, but if it was Irish Qualified player based in France Daniel Brennen would be the obvious choice.

Will be interesting if they get a THP.

Being 100% honest I have seen very little of Brennan.
Any idea how he is going?

Isn't he Loose Head?

He's still making his way through the espoirs. If he was coming into a setup with 2 decent props ahead of him and he was going to get some game time it would be fine. But he'd only add to the roster of unproven young lads in Munster as far as I can make out


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Apologies your correct he’s a loosehead.

[ronk]

Interestingly, I’m hearing that they are also in talks with an IQ player based on the UK.

I’d say the Toulouse game was a big eye opener on the requirement to strengthen that position.

Your man who played for Ireland at U20, capped by England 5 years ago? Bracken or Brookes?

They could try getting Jager back from Crusaders, although I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening.

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Kieran Brookes. He's IQ again with the new regulations. Think he's contracted up.

[hugonaut]

Makes no sense whatsoever that Munster be allowed chop Ryan and sign a NIQ. Sure, he's fallen out of the Ireland squad but he's still on the depth chart and could be needed with injuries. There are only 3 tightheads before you're switching someone across or recalling Moore. It's a year out from the World Cup.

It's making a call to give up on Knox and Salanoa without ever giving them a chance. The only justification is panic (or playing chicken) and it's a terrible terrible reason. A new coach gives the excuse that they can blame the outgoing guy but it's also showing that there's zero backbone over being serious about development. Tighthead was the red-line. BJ Botha was extended to 5 years and they had to develop a tighthead no matter what. They didn't and now they've giving up.

Knox got a 2 year extension, Salanoa 3.

Why would anything think that Munster will change if they allow this? May as well have kept JvG.

Very plausible that Ryan wanted to leave. He has played at Munster for a long time [11 seasons] and perhaps

a] he wanted a different professional rugby experience, like Paul O'Connell, Donnacha Ryan and Simon Zebo [and others] before him;
b] he got a good offer from Wasps that Munster wouldn't match;
c] he didn't like sitting on the bench behind Archer as often as he has done recently.

[Colmodon]

Makes no sense whatsoever that Munster be allowed chop Ryan and sign a NIQ. Sure, he's fallen out of the Ireland squad but he's still on the depth chart and could be needed with injuries. There are only 3 tightheads before you're switching someone across or recalling Moore. It's a year out from the World Cup.

It's making a call to give up on Knox and Salanoa without ever giving them a chance. The only justification is panic (or playing chicken) and it's a terrible terrible reason. A new coach gives the excuse that they can blame the outgoing guy but it's also showing that there's zero backbone over being serious about development. Tighthead was the red-line. BJ Botha was extended to 5 years and they had to develop a tighthead no matter what. They didn't and now they've giving up.

Knox got a 2 year extension, Salanoa 3.

Why would anything think that Munster will change if they allow this? May as well have kept JvG.

Very plausible that Ryan wanted to leave. He has played at Munster for a long time [11 seasons] and perhaps

a] he wanted a different professional rugby experience, like Paul O'Connell, Donnacha Ryan and Simon Zebo [and others] before him;
b] he got a good offer from Wasps that Munster wouldn't match;
c] he didn't like sitting on the bench behind Archer as often as he has done recently.

His Instagram post certainly makes it seem like it wasn't really his decision / not what he wanted.

My journey with @MunsterRugby has sadly come to an end. A club I would loved to have continued to play for and I am heart broken to be leaving...

[ronk]

POC lost money in the downturn. And needed to resave for his retirement. Ryan and Zebo said nice things but ultimately they were non centrally contracted players and Munster didn't want to pay them with their own money.

Maybe it was all those things. And maybe it was a low ball offer too.

There's plenty of other examples of players leaving as they drop down the international pecking order like Cronin and JJ.

The list of non centrally contract Munster players who've been getting regular Irish outings is Kilcoyne, Ryan, Beirne (just got one), Carbery (not sure), Farrell, Conway.

3 non starting aging players got extended central contracts when the players ahead of them aren't on them. Looks like Munster have the IRFU convinced that they needed to do it to keep them available.