Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

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munster#1
Shane Jennings
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by munster#1 »

The below quote from Ian Costello confirming that the additional year in the academy will be used to allow Campbell to continue his studies.
It also hints that perhaps there are some non rugby related reasons why Campbell is not stepping into full time professionalism right away, which is great to see.
It looks, to me anyway, that Munster are clearly putting the person first, and hopefully the person can become the player that we all hope he will.

Patrick Campbell signing a new contract…

“It’s exciting times for Pat and we’re delighted that he’s going to be at the club for three more years and hopefully a lot longer.

“He will spend one more year in the Academy before moving up to the senior squad. The Academy is a huge part of that foundation piece [for young players]. That development stage in the pathway is massive for the lads to lay the groundwork to have a successful career.

“It’s not just rugby, it’s not just technical or tactical – it’s physical, it’s mental, it’s social. The support that the Academy provides and the level of resources it provides will allow him to continue with his studies and other interests that he might have and to get that balance right.”
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by Colmodon »

Very interesting article in the 42 on John Ryan's exit:

https://www.the42.ie/john-ryan-munster-5799113-Jun2022/
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munster#1
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by munster#1 »

Colmodon wrote: June 25th, 2022, 9:28 am Very interesting article in the 42 on John Ryan's exit:

https://www.the42.ie/john-ryan-munster-5799113-Jun2022/
I have had the privilege of meeting John a couple of times, and he I the most unassuming player I have ever met.
He is extremely polite, and for a man of his size, he is very quiet.

I don’t think a single Munster fan would win him anything but the best with hi move.
He has been an incredible servant for Munster and Ireland, and will be missed.
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by sunshiner1 »

Crazy to me that they kept Archer and let Ryan go. My respect for JVG and Rowntree has lessened a lot.
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munster#1
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by munster#1 »

sunshiner1 wrote: June 25th, 2022, 10:32 am Crazy to me that they kept Archer and let Ryan go. My respect for JVG and Rowntree has lessened a lot.
Seems crazy without knowing any of the facts.
Coaches have to make difficult decisions all of the time, and unfortunately at this moment in time each province is struggling to balance the books, and look to have a clear mandate to shrink the size of their squads.

Ryan may well be on considerably more than Archer, or may have demanded more than Munster felt he was worth.
His illness may be limiting the number of minutes he can play or train.

I personally would have loved to see Ryan finish out his career in Munster, but thankfully I don’t have to make those decisions.
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

sunshiner1 wrote: June 25th, 2022, 10:32 am Crazy to me that they kept Archer and let Ryan go. My respect for JVG and Rowntree has lessened a lot.
Eh, yeah. The mind boggles
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Colmodon wrote: June 25th, 2022, 9:28 am Very interesting article in the 42 on John Ryan's exit:

https://www.the42.ie/john-ryan-munster-5799113-Jun2022/
Thanks for that, nice to hear someone be honest and talk themselves up instead of the usual "everyone else does the hard work for me" bullshit.

There are lots of potential reasons why he might have been cut but whatever it was it was certainly a cruel way to end for him and you can understand why he'd have expected to be staying on.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Colmodon wrote: June 25th, 2022, 9:28 am Very interesting article in the 42 on John Ryan's exit:

https://www.the42.ie/john-ryan-munster-5799113-Jun2022/
I observed John Ryan at close quarters in an Ireland Development squad on Tour prior to his selection in a National senior squad. Whilst he had an underlying medical condition, it was well managed and rarely impacted on his performances, according to both coaches & medics.

Ryan was under-rated by almost all his Coaches, bar Axel & Joe. He could, and did, scrum on both sides. His lifting and mauling were of the highest standards. His passing and handling were top class and his cleaning out was in a class of its own. One of the other important assessments was that he raised his game in important fixtures or when his team came under pressure - "he never hides", a comment from Axel to Joe during a selection assessment.

Keeping Archer and letting Ryan go were both poor decisions by Munster management, not in relative but in absolute terms.

Good luck to him
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by leinsterforever »

Colmodon wrote: June 25th, 2022, 9:28 am Very interesting article in the 42 on John Ryan's exit:

https://www.the42.ie/john-ryan-munster-5799113-Jun2022/
Certainly makes for interesting reading. I simply don't understand van Graan's position of preferring Archer. Ryan was a good quality international. He didn't look out of place against the best opposition.

I think he would have been a good signing for Leinster if the timeframes had been a bit different and he became available at the time Ala'alatoa was signed.
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ronk
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by ronk »

munster#1 wrote: June 25th, 2022, 9:11 am The below quote from Ian Costello confirming that the additional year in the academy will be used to allow Campbell to continue his studies.
It also hints that perhaps there are some non rugby related reasons why Campbell is not stepping into full time professionalism right away, which is great to see.
It looks, to me anyway, that Munster are clearly putting the person first, and hopefully the person can become the player that we all hope he will.

Patrick Campbell signing a new contract…

“It’s exciting times for Pat and we’re delighted that he’s going to be at the club for three more years and hopefully a lot longer.

“He will spend one more year in the Academy before moving up to the senior squad. The Academy is a huge part of that foundation piece [for young players]. That development stage in the pathway is massive for the lads to lay the groundwork to have a successful career.

“It’s not just rugby, it’s not just technical or tactical – it’s physical, it’s mental, it’s social. The support that the Academy provides and the level of resources it provides will allow him to continue with his studies and other interests that he might have and to get that balance right.”
The quote doesn't actually say that. Players don't stay in the academy longer because of the benefits of the program, they can be continued on a fatter contract. They stay because they're not offered contracts.

Taking a pro contract somewhere else would interfere with his studies though.
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ronk
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by ronk »

munster#1 wrote: June 25th, 2022, 10:51 am
sunshiner1 wrote: June 25th, 2022, 10:32 am Crazy to me that they kept Archer and let Ryan go. My respect for JVG and Rowntree has lessened a lot.
Seems crazy without knowing any of the facts.
Coaches have to make difficult decisions all of the time, and unfortunately at this moment in time each province is struggling to balance the books, and look to have a clear mandate to shrink the size of their squads.

Ryan may well be on considerably more than Archer, or may have demanded more than Munster felt he was worth.
His illness may be limiting the number of minutes he can play or train.

I personally would have loved to see Ryan finish out his career in Munster, but thankfully I don’t have to make those decisions.
Did you not say that back when trying to deny that he had been cut?

We now have some clear facts, he was cut and he wasn't holding a contract offer from somewhere else when he was cut.

They decided to offload his salary. He'd been there a while and had gotten plenty of international caps so it had probably walked pretty high.

If they needed to cut the wage bill then it's a tough decision but other ones would have been tough too. If they cut him and tried to sign a tighthead then I'd be unhappy with that.

It's another example of how Munster don't want to pay fringe internationals with their own money.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by riocard911 »

‘I wouldn't say I'm a world class operator but I never played a bad game for Ireland’ https://the42.ie/5799113

This is bonkers stuff from Munster and the IRFU: they keep Archer and let Ryan go to England, despite the fact, that the latter proved himself at Test level to Joe Schmidt and Ireland have a depth chart problem at tighthead just over a year out from RWC2023 in France! Nucifora out!!!!
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by ronk »

Faz picked Tom O'Toole ahead of him. That puts him far enough down the pecking order that Munster were allowed cut him, just.

He's too old for development minutes, but he's useful. He was capped last summer against Japan and it wouldn't have taken many injuries to get him in squads.

But it forces Munster to develop Knox and means theres a softer succession plan than letting Ryan and Archer retire together. It's harsh on him but a reasonable plan.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by Logorrhea »

riocard911 wrote: June 25th, 2022, 3:38 pm Nucifora out!!!!
Really? Seriously?
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by munster#1 »

Whatever your thoughts on Ryan moving away from Munster, what is great to see, is that Ryan went from a player who nearly didn’t get a pro contract as a young lad to one that sees even opposition fans being outraged that he wasn’t given an extension at Munster after almost 200 games for the province.
Not many Munster players would be held in this esteem by Leinster fans, and is a real mark of how Ryan is viewed.

This is a real Cinderella story.
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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ronk
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by ronk »

munster#1 wrote: June 25th, 2022, 4:14 pm , what is great to see, is that Ryan went from a player who nearly didn’t get a pro contract as a young lad to one that...
Not many Munster players would be held in this esteem by Leinster fans, and is a real mark of how Ryan is viewed.

This is a real Cinderella story.
It's pretty far from great.

If it's a Cinderella story Munster is the ugly stepsisters.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by fourthirtythree »

ronk wrote: June 25th, 2022, 4:44 pm
If it's a Cinderella story Munster is the ugly stepsisters.
Archer the ugly stepsister surely? Munster is the evil stepmother in that story.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by riocard911 »

ronk wrote: June 25th, 2022, 3:53 pm Faz picked Tom O'Toole ahead of him. That puts him far enough down the pecking order that Munster were allowed cut him, just.

He's too old for development minutes, but he's useful. He was capped last summer against Japan and it wouldn't have taken many injuries to get him in squads.

But it forces Munster to develop Knox and means theres a softer succession plan than letting Ryan and Archer retire together. It's harsh on him but a reasonable plan.
And if Tom O'Toole or Tadhg goes down pre-RWC? I would have thought keeping a guy, who could get us out of a pickle, should one arise, at tight-head, in the provincial system and thereby eligible for the national team would have been somewhat more reasonable. But then what do I know?
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by wixfjord »

And they heard all about it, fans, pundits, expressing their view. Some of the fiercest criticism stemmed from former Munster players and those words have not gone unheard.

“That hasn’t been good. I wouldn’t be a fan of that stuff at all. You can be critical but you don’t have to be nasty and I think some fellas have just gone over the top. If you have been in the system, you should always be part of that system. Some of their criticism has been very, very harsh. Those men were heroes of mine when I was younger. They are not heroes anymore.”
Strange thing to say. Who is he talking about here? Haven't seen any OTT criticism from former players.

That strikes me a bit as abdication of responsibility for constant poor results and sub par performances.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by ronk »

riocard911 wrote: June 25th, 2022, 5:34 pm
ronk wrote: June 25th, 2022, 3:53 pm Faz picked Tom O'Toole ahead of him. That puts him far enough down the pecking order that Munster were allowed cut him, just.

He's too old for development minutes, but he's useful. He was capped last summer against Japan and it wouldn't have taken many injuries to get him in squads.

But it forces Munster to develop Knox and means theres a softer succession plan than letting Ryan and Archer retire together. It's harsh on him but a reasonable plan.
And if Tom O'Toole or Tadhg goes down pre-RWC? I would have thought keeping a guy, who could get us out of a pickle, should one arise, at tight-head, in the provincial system and thereby eligible for the national team would have been somewhat more reasonable. But then what do I know?
I agree. I made that point when rumours of him leaving made the board.

If Faz wanted him enough he probably could have put enough pressure on Munster.

Ryan was told in December 2021 that he didn't have a contract. It wasn't that long after the autumn Internationals where Healy had been available as a tighthead.
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