Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

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Oldschool
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by Oldschool »

munster#1 wrote: June 19th, 2022, 10:22 am
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: June 18th, 2022, 4:34 pm I hadn’t realised that Jager’s contract is up now, surely he must be on move? He’s starting for the Super Rugby champions, there must be a good reason why he hasn’t been signed up.

Maybe he waited to see if he made the NZ squad before committing?
This is something that Munster and the IRFU should be pushing hard to make happen.
Ireland are far from over ran with quality THs, so any and all available options should be looked at.

Jager is still only 26, so still has time to improve even further than he has to date.
Given the lack of depth at TH, Jager could potentially walk straight into the Irish squad.
Given the witch hunt surrounding Michael Bent, I doubt he'd be walking anywhere close to the Irish squad. In addition he simply wouldn't be ready for the physicality of NH international rugby.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by munster#1 »

Oldschool wrote: June 19th, 2022, 10:08 pm
munster#1 wrote: June 19th, 2022, 10:22 am
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: June 18th, 2022, 4:34 pm I hadn’t realised that Jager’s contract is up now, surely he must be on move? He’s starting for the Super Rugby champions, there must be a good reason why he hasn’t been signed up.

Maybe he waited to see if he made the NZ squad before committing?
This is something that Munster and the IRFU should be pushing hard to make happen.
Ireland are far from over ran with quality THs, so any and all available options should be looked at.

Jager is still only 26, so still has time to improve even further than he has to date.
Given the lack of depth at TH, Jager could potentially walk straight into the Irish squad.
Given the witch hunt surrounding Michael Bent, I doubt he'd be walking anywhere close to the Irish squad. In addition he simply wouldn't be ready for the physicality of NH international rugby.
Ireland currently have 1 international standard TH and a couple of options who are nowhere near the required standard to start against a big international pack.

While I won’t be bugging Jager up, as to do so would be very unfair on him, but I do think he is exactly the type of player that Ireland should move mountains to bring home with a view to play in the RWC.
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by ronk »

Move mountains to move a player who might not be first choice for Munster (!) or make the RWC squad and who isn't worth bigging up?

Well it's other people's money.

Bealham is a decent international tighthead, O'Toole is probably a decent international tighthead. Healy is serviceable and could double up there, especially for the easier RWC games. Porter could cover there if the need was dire enough to pull him from loosehead. Moore has 10 caps from a long time ago.

If Faz thinks that Jager is a class above all that then maybe there's a case for reaching. But if they thought that they probably already would have signed him, or maybe NZ would have thrown him a one off cap.

To shrink the gap between Knox and Archer? I don't see it.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

ronk wrote: June 19th, 2022, 10:56 pm Move mountains to move a player who might not be first choice for Munster (!) or make the RWC squad and who isn't worth bigging up?

Well it's other people's money.

Bealham is a decent international tighthead, O'Toole is probably a decent international tighthead. Healy is serviceable and could double up there, especially for the easier RWC games. Porter could cover there if the need was dire enough to pull him from loosehead. Moore has 10 caps from a long time ago.

If Faz thinks that Jager is a class above all that then maybe there's a case for reaching. But if they thought that they probably already would have signed him, or maybe NZ would have thrown him a one off cap.

To shrink the gap between Knox and Archer? I don't see it.
I think Marty Moore is being sold a little short here, he’s a brilliant scrummager and he’s good about the pitch. I’m just glad he got the chance to fulfil his childhood dream and work with the great Dai Young who really helped him fulfil his potential…
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by ronk »

I don’t have an issue with Marty Moore, he had so much more potential when he was younger but I think injuries played a role in that. It’s 7 years since he got a cap and plenty of opportunities were there for easy caps.

He’s a marmite player, like Bob Casey or Trevor Brennan. At this stage it’s unlikely that he gets an Ireland comeback. He’s done pretty good, just not an international lately.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by ronk »

Hasn't come up in a while but Jager is 6ft 4. That'll be a big deal first time he loses a few scrums.

And there's history of lengthy debate around tall props in Munster.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by munster#1 »

I don’t think Ireland are in a position to turn their back on any prospect at TH.
Jager is a TH who plays for arguably the best club in the world, and is seen by some Crusaders fans I know as being a legitimate international prospect for the All Blacks.

If the IRFU have not been keeping tabs on him and in constant contact with him or his agent, then that has to be seen as a failing in our systems.

If Furlong were to pick up a serious injury over the next 12 months leading into the RWC or even 6 nations, then imo, based on what is currently at our disposal, Ireland would be in trouble.

The Irish scrum struggled against Wales, England and France in the last 6N with Furlong. It would not be a pretty sight with Bealham or O Toole.

I don’t mind which province signs him, I just hope that he is signed.
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by dropkick »

ronk wrote: June 20th, 2022, 11:26 am Hasn't come up in a while but Jager is 6ft 4. That'll be a big deal first time he loses a few scrums.

And there's history of lengthy debate around tall props in Munster.
The new engagement laws are favouring big tall props or at least helping them.


Imo Munster's problems are far greater than scrummaging. I think it would be better to sort out how they play and then see about filling the gaps. There'll be plenty of players available after the next world cup.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by cormac »

Look out Itchy, he's Irish
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by Keith »

cormac wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 5:18 pm Munster academy intake

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2022/06/23/ ... y-academy/
Shame to see Fionn Gibbons end up there, they'll turn him into a battering ram.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by dropkick »

cormac wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 5:18 pm Munster academy intake

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2022/06/23/ ... y-academy/
First time in a while there's a bunch of players from Limerick. Quinn, Ryan, O'Connell and Oliver.


Evan O'Connell is POC's nephew. Only U18s this season but looks a real talent. Forward the video below to 43:45 to see a highlight.
https://youtu.be/SoeZeSL1WjI


Quinn is a big backrow. In the munster school cup his team won it. They were good but it was a case of give the ball to Quinn. Scored a hat trick in the semi final.


Kieran Ryan will be playing for Ireland U20s. Have not seen much of him only that he is a good carrier. Listed as a tighthead for ireland but I'm sure played looseheads mostly. Stand to be corrected on that.


Never saw Oliver but he must be a talent if they're bringing him in so soon.


McSweeney starts for the U20s tomorrow. He looks like one to watch as he is 130kg and looked more than solid in the scrums in the 6N when he came on even though he was 3rd choice. I don't think there's been this much talent at prop in an ireland U20 year. Massive test tomorrow though.


Gibbons played wing but isn't a winger. Looks like Leinster have gone with the more rounded Brownlee. Good pick up for munster though because munster don't produce centers and he is physical enough to get game time soon enough if he succeeds.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by munster#1 »

dropkick wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 10:40 pm
cormac wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 5:18 pm Munster academy intake

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2022/06/23/ ... y-academy/
First time in a while there's a bunch of players from Limerick. Quinn, Ryan, O'Connell and Oliver.


Evan O'Connell is POC's nephew. Only U18s this season but looks a real talent. Forward the video below to 43:45 to see a highlight.
https://youtu.be/SoeZeSL1WjI


Quinn is a big backrow. In the munster school cup his team won it. They were good but it was a case of give the ball to Quinn. Scored a hat trick in the semi final.


Kieran Ryan will be playing for Ireland U20s. Have not seen much of him only that he is a good carrier. Listed as a tighthead for ireland but I'm sure played looseheads mostly. Stand to be corrected on that.


Never saw Oliver but he must be a talent if they're bringing him in so soon.


McSweeney starts for the U20s tomorrow. He looks like one to watch as he is 130kg and looked more than solid in the scrums in the 6N when he came on even though he was 3rd choice. I don't think there's been this much talent at prop in an ireland U20 year. Massive test tomorrow though.


Gibbons played wing but isn't a winger. Looks like Leinster have gone with the more rounded Brownlee. Good pick up for munster though because munster don't produce centers and he is physical enough to get game time soon enough if he succeeds.
Thanks for the information on the players.

2 big things that stand out for me is that including Gibbons, 4 of the starting Irish U20 backs are Munster players.
This bodes well for Munster, in that they will have this talent available to them into the future.

Additionally, it is great to see that the majority of these players are from Limerick, which I hope is a sign that there is an obvious improvement in player development in Limerick.
As Munster 2nd most populous city, it is important that Limerick holds its own in term’s of development.

I am also intrigued to hear of a 130kg prop coming through the Munster ranks.
In general, Munster players are generally smaller and less physically developed than their Leinster counterparts.
I look forward to seeing how McSweeney goes.

Lastly, as a Clare man, it is great to see 2 Ennis players starting for the Irish U20s team.
Ennis as a Junior club, and a fairly small club based in a GAA man town, have done really well in developing these two players.
When Munster starts finding players in these highly non traditional locations, as they have done in west Cork and Waterford, then you know that something is working really well.
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by RobbieRockBoy »

munster#1 wrote: June 24th, 2022, 9:32 am
dropkick wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 10:40 pm
cormac wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 5:18 pm Munster academy intake

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2022/06/23/ ... y-academy/
First time in a while there's a bunch of players from Limerick. Quinn, Ryan, O'Connell and Oliver.


Evan O'Connell is POC's nephew. Only U18s this season but looks a real talent. Forward the video below to 43:45 to see a highlight.
https://youtu.be/SoeZeSL1WjI


Quinn is a big backrow. In the munster school cup his team won it. They were good but it was a case of give the ball to Quinn. Scored a hat trick in the semi final.


Kieran Ryan will be playing for Ireland U20s. Have not seen much of him only that he is a good carrier. Listed as a tighthead for ireland but I'm sure played looseheads mostly. Stand to be corrected on that.


Never saw Oliver but he must be a talent if they're bringing him in so soon.


McSweeney starts for the U20s tomorrow. He looks like one to watch as he is 130kg and looked more than solid in the scrums in the 6N when he came on even though he was 3rd choice. I don't think there's been this much talent at prop in an ireland U20 year. Massive test tomorrow though.


Gibbons played wing but isn't a winger. Looks like Leinster have gone with the more rounded Brownlee. Good pick up for munster though because munster don't produce centers and he is physical enough to get game time soon enough if he succeeds.
Thanks for the information on the players.

2 big things that stand out for me is that including Gibbons, 4 of the starting Irish U20 backs are Munster players.
This bodes well for Munster, in that they will have this talent available to them into the future.

Additionally, it is great to see that the majority of these players are from Limerick, which I hope is a sign that there is an obvious improvement in player development in Limerick.
As Munster 2nd most populous city, it is important that Limerick holds its own in term’s of development.

I am also intrigued to hear of a 130kg prop coming through the Munster ranks.
In general, Munster players are generally smaller and less physically developed than their Leinster counterparts.
I look forward to seeing how McSweeney goes.

Lastly, as a Clare man, it is great to see 2 Ennis players starting for the Irish U20s team.
Ennis as a Junior club, and a fairly small club based in a GAA man town, have done really well in developing these two players.
When Munster starts finding players in these highly non traditional locations, as they have done in west Cork and Waterford, then you know that something is working really well.
Ruadhan Quinn is Clare too, Killaloe, just went to Crescent Comp.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Thanks for the link dropkick, I don’t remember POC doing anything like that! I thought Baird was a freak of an athlete for second row, albeit he might be playing more at 6 now, but maybe with Ahern and O’Connell coming through it’s just the new normal.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by dropkick »

munster#1 wrote: June 24th, 2022, 9:32 am
dropkick wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 10:40 pm
cormac wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 5:18 pm Munster academy intake

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2022/06/23/ ... y-academy/
First time in a while there's a bunch of players from Limerick. Quinn, Ryan, O'Connell and Oliver.


Evan O'Connell is POC's nephew. Only U18s this season but looks a real talent. Forward the video below to 43:45 to see a highlight.
https://youtu.be/SoeZeSL1WjI


Quinn is a big backrow. In the munster school cup his team won it. They were good but it was a case of give the ball to Quinn. Scored a hat trick in the semi final.


Kieran Ryan will be playing for Ireland U20s. Have not seen much of him only that he is a good carrier. Listed as a tighthead for ireland but I'm sure played looseheads mostly. Stand to be corrected on that.


Never saw Oliver but he must be a talent if they're bringing him in so soon.


McSweeney starts for the U20s tomorrow. He looks like one to watch as he is 130kg and looked more than solid in the scrums in the 6N when he came on even though he was 3rd choice. I don't think there's been this much talent at prop in an ireland U20 year. Massive test tomorrow though.


Gibbons played wing but isn't a winger. Looks like Leinster have gone with the more rounded Brownlee. Good pick up for munster though because munster don't produce centers and he is physical enough to get game time soon enough if he succeeds.
Thanks for the information on the players.

2 big things that stand out for me is that including Gibbons, 4 of the starting Irish U20 backs are Munster players.
This bodes well for Munster, in that they will have this talent available to them into the future.

Additionally, it is great to see that the majority of these players are from Limerick, which I hope is a sign that there is an obvious improvement in player development in Limerick.
As Munster 2nd most populous city, it is important that Limerick holds its own in term’s of development.

I am also intrigued to hear of a 130kg prop coming through the Munster ranks.
In general, Munster players are generally smaller and less physically developed than their Leinster counterparts.
I look forward to seeing how McSweeney goes.

Lastly, as a Clare man, it is great to see 2 Ennis players starting for the Irish U20s team.
Ennis as a Junior club, and a fairly small club based in a GAA man town, have done really well in developing these two players.
When Munster starts finding players in these highly non traditional locations, as they have done in west Cork and Waterford, then you know that something is working really well.

Yeah good to see limerick producing players again and that there are 4 of them is a good sign that the limerick production line is working again.


I forgot that Campbell has signed a professional contract. Still officially in the academy next season but expect him to play a number of matches.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by dropkick »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: June 24th, 2022, 10:07 am Thanks for the link dropkick, I don’t remember POC doing anything like that! I thought Baird was a freak of an athlete for second row, albeit he might be playing more at 6 now, but maybe with Ahern and O’Connell coming through it’s just the new normal.
It was Baird-like alright. He has very good hands too from what I saw in that tournament. Will probably lose some pace when he puts on weight.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by munster#1 »

RobbieRockBoy wrote: June 24th, 2022, 10:01 am
munster#1 wrote: June 24th, 2022, 9:32 am
dropkick wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 10:40 pm

First time in a while there's a bunch of players from Limerick. Quinn, Ryan, O'Connell and Oliver.


Evan O'Connell is POC's nephew. Only U18s this season but looks a real talent. Forward the video below to 43:45 to see a highlight.
https://youtu.be/SoeZeSL1WjI


Quinn is a big backrow. In the munster school cup his team won it. They were good but it was a case of give the ball to Quinn. Scored a hat trick in the semi final.


Kieran Ryan will be playing for Ireland U20s. Have not seen much of him only that he is a good carrier. Listed as a tighthead for ireland but I'm sure played looseheads mostly. Stand to be corrected on that.


Never saw Oliver but he must be a talent if they're bringing him in so soon.


McSweeney starts for the U20s tomorrow. He looks like one to watch as he is 130kg and looked more than solid in the scrums in the 6N when he came on even though he was 3rd choice. I don't think there's been this much talent at prop in an ireland U20 year. Massive test tomorrow though.


Gibbons played wing but isn't a winger. Looks like Leinster have gone with the more rounded Brownlee. Good pick up for munster though because munster don't produce centers and he is physical enough to get game time soon enough if he succeeds.
Thanks for the information on the players.

2 big things that stand out for me is that including Gibbons, 4 of the starting Irish U20 backs are Munster players.
This bodes well for Munster, in that they will have this talent available to them into the future.

Additionally, it is great to see that the majority of these players are from Limerick, which I hope is a sign that there is an obvious improvement in player development in Limerick.
As Munster 2nd most populous city, it is important that Limerick holds its own in term’s of development.

I am also intrigued to hear of a 130kg prop coming through the Munster ranks.
In general, Munster players are generally smaller and less physically developed than their Leinster counterparts.
I look forward to seeing how McSweeney goes.

Lastly, as a Clare man, it is great to see 2 Ennis players starting for the Irish U20s team.
Ennis as a Junior club, and a fairly small club based in a GAA man town, have done really well in developing these two players.
When Munster starts finding players in these highly non traditional locations, as they have done in west Cork and Waterford, then you know that something is working really well.
Ruadhan Quinn is Clare too, Killaloe, just went to Crescent Comp.
Very true.
However, Killaloe is one of those contentious areas where people, despite the fact that they live in Clare, see themselves as Limerick people(which I am assuming applies to Quinn).

But as a proud Clare man I will claim him 😁
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by ronk »

I think of Killaloe as Tipp.

Anyway, nice to see some decent potential in an academy intake.

I don't think I've ever seen it announced that a player will do one more year in the academy but then get a 2 year professional deal.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by munster#1 »

dropkick wrote: June 24th, 2022, 10:14 am
munster#1 wrote: June 24th, 2022, 9:32 am
dropkick wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 10:40 pm

First time in a while there's a bunch of players from Limerick. Quinn, Ryan, O'Connell and Oliver.


Evan O'Connell is POC's nephew. Only U18s this season but looks a real talent. Forward the video below to 43:45 to see a highlight.
https://youtu.be/SoeZeSL1WjI


Quinn is a big backrow. In the munster school cup his team won it. They were good but it was a case of give the ball to Quinn. Scored a hat trick in the semi final.


Kieran Ryan will be playing for Ireland U20s. Have not seen much of him only that he is a good carrier. Listed as a tighthead for ireland but I'm sure played looseheads mostly. Stand to be corrected on that.


Never saw Oliver but he must be a talent if they're bringing him in so soon.


McSweeney starts for the U20s tomorrow. He looks like one to watch as he is 130kg and looked more than solid in the scrums in the 6N when he came on even though he was 3rd choice. I don't think there's been this much talent at prop in an ireland U20 year. Massive test tomorrow though.


Gibbons played wing but isn't a winger. Looks like Leinster have gone with the more rounded Brownlee. Good pick up for munster though because munster don't produce centers and he is physical enough to get game time soon enough if he succeeds.
Thanks for the information on the players.

2 big things that stand out for me is that including Gibbons, 4 of the starting Irish U20 backs are Munster players.
This bodes well for Munster, in that they will have this talent available to them into the future.

Additionally, it is great to see that the majority of these players are from Limerick, which I hope is a sign that there is an obvious improvement in player development in Limerick.
As Munster 2nd most populous city, it is important that Limerick holds its own in term’s of development.

I am also intrigued to hear of a 130kg prop coming through the Munster ranks.
In general, Munster players are generally smaller and less physically developed than their Leinster counterparts.
I look forward to seeing how McSweeney goes.

Lastly, as a Clare man, it is great to see 2 Ennis players starting for the Irish U20s team.
Ennis as a Junior club, and a fairly small club based in a GAA man town, have done really well in developing these two players.
When Munster starts finding players in these highly non traditional locations, as they have done in west Cork and Waterford, then you know that something is working really well.

Yeah good to see limerick producing players again and that there are 4 of them is a good sign that the limerick production line is working again.


I forgot that Campbell has signed a professional contract. Still officially in the academy next season but expect him to play a number of matches.
Campbell, from what I’ve seen of him, looks like a brilliant prospect.
His lines of running and positional sense is fairly high level for such a young player.

I wonder if the additional season in the academy is at his request to finish his studies prior to moving into full time rugby?
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by ronk »

munster#1 wrote: June 24th, 2022, 12:58 pm
I wonder if the additional season in the academy is at his request to finish his studies prior to moving into full time rugby?
I think it's far more likely that he asked for a contract now but agreed to this compromise.

Announcing now raises his profile and status with a win and discourages suitors.
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