Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

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ronk
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Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by ronk »

The reign of Fruit Pastilles commences with a month off before the New Zealand test.

Makes sense to rest the players who would benefit from it.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by Oldschool »

Good luck to him.
A great professional as a player.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
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Munster Rugby - The Quest Continues - Pre season discussion and rumours

Post by munster#1 »

I have found it hard to even think about posting on the Ulster match, which imo is the worst display by a Munster squad in the pro era.
What a shocking way to end a season that contained so many signs of progression.

Well it is now consignment to the history books, and unfortunately it will only show that Munster were beaten in the knockouts of both comps.

————————————————————————————————————————

On to next season, as one of 2 Irish provinces who will have a longer run in.

Munster have a fair few players set to depart, none more impactful imo than Ryan and DDA.
Munster appear to have made a great signing in Fekitoa, who has all the potential to improve Munster’s open play.
However, I still believe that Munster should do everything in their power to bring in a TH.

Munster must also build on the work that has been carried out by JVG in terms of player development.
Looking at the squad that started the season and ended it, there was so much to be positive about, with so many young players staking a claim on the jersey.

My hopes for next season is to see J Wycherley, Barron, Buckley, Ahern, Coombes, Hodnett, Kendellan, Casey, Healy and Crowley move forward in their development.
And that we get to see the likes of Campbell, Okeke, Butler, Coughlan, etc. continue their development.

Additionally, Munster will need to look to develop further in the centre and back 3 to future proof these positions.


Munster will hopefully have the services of RG for the full season, who is essentially a new signing, and one that could make a massive difference.

I am hopeful that with the announced coaching team, and the academy players having more time under Costello’s tutelage, that Munster should improve on this season, and can push harder for silverware.
Last edited by munster#1 on June 10th, 2022, 9:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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Re: Munster Rugby - The Quest Continues - 2022-2023

Post by munster#1 »

On a more sentimental item, it is great to see that the IRFU have offered Earls another contract.

Earls is on the cusp of some serious milestones, 200 games for Munster, 100 Irish caps, 100 career tries and 4 RWCs, and while sport has no place for sentimentality it is great to see a person who has gone through so much, who is a massive role model for players and fans alike, achieve what he has achieved.

Hopefully at the end of his career we will be celebrating all of the above.
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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Re: Munster Rugby - The Quest Continues - 2022-2023

Post by riocard911 »

munster#1 wrote: June 6th, 2022, 7:46 pm On a more sentimental item, it is great to see that the IRFU have offered Earls another contract.

Earls is on the cusp of some serious milestones, 200 games for Munster, 100 Irish caps, 100 career tries and 4 RWCs, and while sport has no place for sentimentality it is great to see a person who has gone through so much, who is a massive role model for players and fans alike, achieve what he has achieved.

Hopefully at the end of his career we will be celebrating all of the above.
It took me a while to warm to Earlsy due to him initially being shoe-horned into a position at centre which IMO was not best suited to his skill-set. I've subsequently come to realise, that he's a full-on 100 percent commitment type of player, and for that he has my highest respect. All the best to him with those milestones!
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Re: Munster Rugby - The Quest Continues - 2022-2023

Post by Morf »

munster#1 wrote: June 6th, 2022, 7:37 pm Munster will hopefully have the services of RG for the full season, who is essentially a new signing, and one that could make a massive difference.
Assuredly

If the circumstances of Earls getting a central contract were compared to any other provinces 32+ back three players there could be some resentment felt. Rob Kearney, Tommy Bowe etc.

Not a slight on Earls but it feels very out of step with IRFU contracting in the last decade.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by ronk »

Oldschool wrote: June 6th, 2022, 1:38 pm Good luck to him.
A great professional as a player.
He really was. And he has done well as a coach.

Almost immediately into the England setup and stayed there for 8 years until he was collateral damage of the Eddie Jones appointment. Got a job in England after that when all the others had a harder time.

2 Lions tours and not released by the IRFU for a 3rd. Lots of high level experience.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by dougie the flanker »

There's a healthy air of scepticism already floating around the province. Not quite 'Graham Out!' but many Munster fans are disappointed that he clearly wasn't a first choice pick for Munster/IRFU and the impression was that was sort of said no but eventually went back to him with no other options.

A few people have pointed out that he replaced Jerry Flannery as forwards coach who replaced him (give or take 2 seasons) at Quins. And Flannerys Munster and Flannerys Harlequins seemed to achieve more.

Personally I'm just happy to get a passionate and experienced coach who won't be spending the summer trying to figure out how to get his house sorted and his kids in schools and the best route to get to the high performance centre. He will have formed his own opinions and has time to come up with a plan.

I think he'll get an easier ride in the media as well. Van Graan might not have had enemies but he certainly didn't have friends in the media. He was deadpan and to the point giving them little to work with.

I'm actually happy enough to draw a line under the whole JVG [and Larkham] era rather than drag this on another few weeks. Given the injury list if nothing else the extra month off is no harm. A shake up in the pecking order will be needed next season. Lets hope Rowntree has no qualms about difficult conversations with a few players that seem a little too cosy in their role.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by ronk »

Leo Cullen was an assistant coach with very different ideas from MOC. Andy Farrell has changed a fair bit since Schmidt including on the selection side.

I think Munster would be thrilled to have the same success.

Munster's injury list is mostly guys who would want to be in the international mix, so this isn't really helpful unless Faz makes an early call to stand them down.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by ronk »

Andi Kyriacou, Leamy, Rowntree. Lots of forwards experience.

Prendergast. Backs and attack. I wonder if there isn't still a backs assistant to come, someone to work with the guys on opposition duty or who aren't in the weekend team. Keatley being the easy candidate.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by ronk »

Thorney doesn't mention Kyriacou. I wonder is he unconfirmed or ignored.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... t-munster/

Another thing I hadn't realised was how often Munster shipped big losses in URC knockout games to teams not called Leinster.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by Oldschool »

ronk wrote: June 6th, 2022, 10:58 am The reign of Fruit Pastilles commences with a month off before the New Zealand test.

Makes sense to rest the players who would benefit from it.
Dale Mackintosh would be a suitable addition to the backroom team.
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Re: Munster Rugby - The Quest Continues - 2022-2023

Post by munster#1 »

riocard911 wrote: June 6th, 2022, 9:00 pm
munster#1 wrote: June 6th, 2022, 7:46 pm On a more sentimental item, it is great to see that the IRFU have offered Earls another contract.

Earls is on the cusp of some serious milestones, 200 games for Munster, 100 Irish caps, 100 career tries and 4 RWCs, and while sport has no place for sentimentality it is great to see a person who has gone through so much, who is a massive role model for players and fans alike, achieve what he has achieved.

Hopefully at the end of his career we will be celebrating all of the above.
It took me a while to warm to Earlsy due to him initially being shoe-horned into a position at centre which IMO was not best suited to his skill-set. I've subsequently come to realise, that he's a full-on 100 percent commitment type of player, and for that he has my highest respect. All the best to him with those milestones!
I really don’t buy the shoehorned discussion, Earls was a great underage centre, and had some very good games there at senior level too.
His only downfall was that he was not BOD.

Earls showed his true professionalism and mantle when he managed to reinvent himself as one of Irelands best players as a winger, and has made a great career for himself there.

He has went from being a person who divided the Irish supporter base, to one that is now unanimously supported across the board.
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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Re: Munster Rugby - The Quest Continues - 2022-2023

Post by munster#1 »

Fair play to Casey and Kleyn for making the URC team of the year.
Whilst it is largely a meaningless honour, I feel that both deserve their spot.

I have seen some real glimpses of progression from Kleyn this season. He added an additional string to his bow in open play which has been a major weakness of his.
Hopefully with Rowntree and Leamy involved in the coaching setup he can continue this progression.

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2022/06/07/ ... ream-team/
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by hugonaut »

dougie the flanker wrote: June 7th, 2022, 10:39 am There's a healthy air of scepticism already floating around the province. Not quite 'Graham Out!' but many Munster fans are disappointed that he clearly wasn't a first choice pick for Munster/IRFU and the impression was that was sort of said no but eventually went back to him with no other options.

A few people have pointed out that he replaced Jerry Flannery as forwards coach who replaced him (give or take 2 seasons) at Quins. And Flannerys Munster and Flannerys Harlequins seemed to achieve more.

Personally I'm just happy to get a passionate and experienced coach who won't be spending the summer trying to figure out how to get his house sorted and his kids in schools and the best route to get to the high performance centre. He will have formed his own opinions and has time to come up with a plan.

I think he'll get an easier ride in the media as well. Van Graan might not have had enemies but he certainly didn't have friends in the media. He was deadpan and to the point giving them little to work with.

I'm actually happy enough to draw a line under the whole JVG [and Larkham] era rather than drag this on another few weeks. Given the injury list if nothing else the extra month off is no harm. A shake up in the pecking order will be needed next season. Lets hope Rowntree has no qualms about difficult conversations with a few players that seem a little too cosy in their role.
I think he's going to have to negotiate a lot of change in personnel under him. It's going to be a tricky enough period.

I felt that Munster had a window two seasons ago, and that they got [to some extent] an extra bite at the cherry when the 2019-20 season had the middle lump taken out of it and they were able to bring in de Allende and Snyman for the rescheduled games that started in August 2020.

They had a bunch of Munster guys born in the late 1980s who were at the 29-31 age group [Murray, O'Mahony, Earls, Kilcoyne, John Ryan – all internationals, the first three Lions]; they had Stander; they had a group of players originally from Leinster who were internationals [Conway, Carbery and Beirne] and then they went and recruited those couple of really big name World Cup-winners.

But they had a pretty defined two-year window and then the players in question would go over the edge with regards to age [i.e. decline in form, pick up more injuries], or would leave, or retire, and they'd be out of contention.

Backs [15-9]: S. Daly, A. Conway, C. Farrell, D. de Allende, K. Earls, J. Carbery, C. Murray;
Forwards [8-1]: D. Kilcoyne, N. Scannell, J. Ryan, R.G. Snyman, J. Kleyn, T. Beirne, P. O'Mahony, C.J. Stander;
Subs [16-23]: R. Marshall/K. O'Byrne, J. Cronin/J. Loughman, K. Knox/S. Archer, B.Holland/T. Ahern, J. O'Donoghue/G. Coombes, C. Casey/N. McCarthy, J.J. Hanrahan/R. Scannell, D. Sweetnam/M. Haley.

Basically the team that started against us in the RTP match [link: https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/report/mat ... r-rugby-25 ] but take out Hanrahan, Archer, Holland and O'Donnell and replace them with Carbery, Ryan, Kleyn and Beirne.

That's a very strong team – the bench [whatever combination] isn't top-notch, but it's not bad either.
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Re: Munster Rugby - The Quest Continues - 2022-2023

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

munster#1 wrote: June 7th, 2022, 10:08 pm
riocard911 wrote: June 6th, 2022, 9:00 pm
munster#1 wrote: June 6th, 2022, 7:46 pm On a more sentimental item, it is great to see that the IRFU have offered Earls another contract.

Earls is on the cusp of some serious milestones, 200 games for Munster, 100 Irish caps, 100 career tries and 4 RWCs, and while sport has no place for sentimentality it is great to see a person who has gone through so much, who is a massive role model for players and fans alike, achieve what he has achieved.

Hopefully at the end of his career we will be celebrating all of the above.
It took me a while to warm to Earlsy due to him initially being shoe-horned into a position at centre which IMO was not best suited to his skill-set. I've subsequently come to realise, that he's a full-on 100 percent commitment type of player, and for that he has my highest respect. All the best to him with those milestones!
I really don’t buy the shoehorned discussion, Earls was a great underage centre, and had some very good games there at senior level too.
His only downfall was that he was not BOD.

Earls showed his true professionalism and mantle when he managed to reinvent himself as one of Irelands best players as a winger, and has made a great career for himself there.

He has went from being a person who divided the Irish supporter base, to one that is now unanimously supported across the board.
With all due respect to Keith Earls and the player he has become, he never was an international class centre, his passing was way to inconsistent and he didn’t really know how to defend the channel. He has proven himself to be a very good winger and I think he could have been a really good fullback.

In saying all of that he’s been on some journey both physically and mentally and he gets nothing but respect from me and probably most on here
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Re: Munster Rugby - The Quest Continues - 2022-2023

Post by munster#1 »

Morf wrote: June 7th, 2022, 6:37 am
munster#1 wrote: June 6th, 2022, 7:37 pm Munster will hopefully have the services of RG for the full season, who is essentially a new signing, and one that could make a massive difference.
Assuredly

If the circumstances of Earls getting a central contract were compared to any other provinces 32+ back three players there could be some resentment felt. Rob Kearney, Tommy Bowe etc.

Not a slight on Earls but it feels very out of step with IRFU contracting in the last decade.
That’s definitely an issue with some provincial fans.

However, looking at this as a logical Irish fan, one can see that Earls is still a player of great value to Ireland, and when fit is likely to be in most match day squads, and possibly even in the first 15 for many games.

However, time waits for no man, and form and ability today can quickly evaporate over 12 months.
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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Re: Munster Rugby - The Quest Continues - 2022-2023

Post by munster#1 »

Oldschoolsocks wrote: June 7th, 2022, 10:38 pm
munster#1 wrote: June 7th, 2022, 10:08 pm
riocard911 wrote: June 6th, 2022, 9:00 pm

It took me a while to warm to Earlsy due to him initially being shoe-horned into a position at centre which IMO was not best suited to his skill-set. I've subsequently come to realise, that he's a full-on 100 percent commitment type of player, and for that he has my highest respect. All the best to him with those milestones!
I really don’t buy the shoehorned discussion, Earls was a great underage centre, and had some very good games there at senior level too.
His only downfall was that he was not BOD.

Earls showed his true professionalism and mantle when he managed to reinvent himself as one of Irelands best players as a winger, and has made a great career for himself there.

He has went from being a person who divided the Irish supporter base, to one that is now unanimously supported across the board.
With all due respect to Keith Earls and the player he has become, he never was an international class centre, his passing was way to inconsistent and he didn’t really know how to defend the channel. He has proven himself to be a very good winger and I think he could have been a really good fullback.

In saying all of that he’s been on some journey both physically and mentally and he gets nothing but respect from me and probably most on here
As a massive fan of Earls, and given all the joy that he has given rugby fans such as you an I, I am going to respectfully disengage from this conversation, as I have far too much respect for him to say anything negative about him online.

I do agree with you that is has been some journey, and one that can not have been easy.
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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Re: Munster Rugby - The Quest Continues - 2022-2023

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

munster#1 wrote: June 7th, 2022, 10:52 pm
Oldschoolsocks wrote: June 7th, 2022, 10:38 pm
munster#1 wrote: June 7th, 2022, 10:08 pm

I really don’t buy the shoehorned discussion, Earls was a great underage centre, and had some very good games there at senior level too.
His only downfall was that he was not BOD.

Earls showed his true professionalism and mantle when he managed to reinvent himself as one of Irelands best players as a winger, and has made a great career for himself there.

He has went from being a person who divided the Irish supporter base, to one that is now unanimously supported across the board.
With all due respect to Keith Earls and the player he has become, he never was an international class centre, his passing was way to inconsistent and he didn’t really know how to defend the channel. He has proven himself to be a very good winger and I think he could have been a really good fullback.

In saying all of that he’s been on some journey both physically and mentally and he gets nothing but respect from me and probably most on here
As a massive fan of Earls, and given all the joy that he has given rugby fans such as you an I, I am going to respectfully disengage from this conversation, as I have far too much respect for him to say anything negative about him online.

I do agree with you that is has been some journey, and one that can not have been easy.
OK, I can respect that. But just to be absolutely clear pointing out that he wasn’t an international class centre is not disrespectful to the man, it’s a just statement of fact.
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Re: Munster Rugby - The Quest Continues - 2022-2023

Post by blockhead »

Oldschoolsocks wrote: June 7th, 2022, 10:38 pm
munster#1 wrote: June 7th, 2022, 10:08 pm
riocard911 wrote: June 6th, 2022, 9:00 pm

It took me a while to warm to Earlsy due to him initially being shoe-horned into a position at centre which IMO was not best suited to his skill-set. I've subsequently come to realise, that he's a full-on 100 percent commitment type of player, and for that he has my highest respect. All the best to him with those milestones!
I really don’t buy the shoehorned discussion, Earls was a great underage centre, and had some very good games there at senior level too.
His only downfall was that he was not BOD.

Earls showed his true professionalism and mantle when he managed to reinvent himself as one of Irelands best players as a winger, and has made a great career for himself there.

He has went from being a person who divided the Irish supporter base, to one that is now unanimously supported across the board.

With all due respect to Keith Earls and the player he has become, he never was an international class centre, his passing was way to inconsistent and he didn’t really know how to defend the channel. He has proven himself to be a very good winger and I think he could have been a really good fullback.

In saying all of that he’s been on some journey both physically and mentally and he gets nothing but respect from me and probably most on here
My Favourite Munster player.
Most people probably forget that he had a very major mid career injury crisis, speculation that he may retire early even. But he came back, as good as ever, nah, even better. He kept his pace and his step. The try v England back in 2021 IIRC, was so him. Top class winger.
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