Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

[Ruckedtobits]

Despite a lot of negativity from Donnchadh, Jamie & Murray Kinsella, I thought there were lots of satisfactory performances from Munster young players today. Missing a fair bit of cohesion and some direction, they were playing against a Cardiff team with lots of star quality and hard-nosed experience.

Certainly, the coaching staff have worked on a lot of little weaknesses and the efforts are starting to pay dividends.

Shane Daly auditioned well for a full-back slot with Emerging Ireland and Salanoa looked a step-up from his previous physicality. Jack O'Sullivan and John Hodnett and Diarmuid also looked zoned in.

IMO, Crowley was better than Healy going forward but mid-field generally lacked pattern.

Cardiff will not be a soft touch for anybody when they have their firch-choice available.

[blockhead]

3 URC defeats in a row now for Munster

[munster#1]

The end result was as you’d expect from looking at the 2 squads.
It was essentially a very young and inexperienced squad, with all 10 of the players going on the emerging Ireland squad being involved, against the strongest Cardiff squad for a very long time.

Saying that, Munster could well have stolen the victory after taking the lead near the end.

Munster will be fairly pissed off by this game I would expect.
The basics really let them down, with far too many poor passes or handling errors at important times.
Additionally the breakdown was a massive let down from Munster. Far too often Munster got into the right parts of the pitch only to have the ball turned over.

There are also positives to take from the game.
The you props came through with credit in the bank, as did Killer on his return.
PP was also very good, even if his lack of experience was evident a couple of time. He put great pace on the ball, and delivered clean ball to the first receiver constantly.
I really wonder how Leinster let him slip through their hands, he has the makings of a great SH.

Daly was also very good imo. He twice made crucial tackles to stop likely tries.

Munster with a few of their experienced players back will be a different animal.

[blockhead]

Zero offloads from Munster.....


Dancing at the disco, bumper to bumper
Wait a minute! Where's me jumper? Where's me jumper? Where's me jumper?
Oooh no. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no.

[munster#1]

Zero offloads from Munster.....


Dancing at the disco, bumper to bumper
Wait a minute! Where's me jumper? Where's me jumper? Where's me jumper?
Oooh no. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no.

You obviously didn’t watch the game as there were a good few offloads.
If anything there were probably too many forced offloads.

[dropkick]

The overall system Prendergast is installing will have much more of a cutting edge than was there previously. It will at least give Munster a punchers chance of beating the best. Under JVG it could be summed up by '80%'. A style that could consistently beat 80% of teams but was also consistently losing to the top teams.

[munster#1]

The overall system Prendergast is installing will have much more of a cutting edge than was there previously. It will at least give Munster a punchers chance of beating the best. Under JVG it could be summed up by '80%'. A style that could consistently beat 80% of teams but was also consistently losing to the top teams.

The big requirement right now is patience.
From the players, fans and the media.

Munster are starting to reintegrate their internationals, with them possibly being available this weekend, but these players will be a number of weeks behind the non internationals.
Additionally, 10 squad players will be touring SA with Ireland, so their development in the new system will be slightly curtailed.

On top of all that, Munster have a relatively inexperienced squad, with a large percentage barely out of the academy.

From viewing last weekends game, Munster need to remember to man the breakdown, because all the flair in the world will not win games if you are getting slow ball or getting turned over for fun.

[dropkick]

Zero offloads from Munster.....


Dancing at the disco, bumper to bumper
Wait a minute! Where's me jumper? Where's me jumper? Where's me jumper?
Oooh no. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no.

7 offloads (9th most in league), 22 defenders beaten (3rd most), 404m run (4th most). That's with all the handling and breakdown errors.

[paddyor]

The overall system Prendergast is installing will have much more of a cutting edge than was there previously. It will at least give Munster a punchers chance of beating the best. Under JVG it could be summed up by '80%'. A style that could consistently beat 80% of teams but was also consistently losing to the top teams.

Birch was saying on the 42(free this week) it would be January to see improvements from what Prendergast and Leamy(defense) were doing which seems like a long way off. It's half of the season.....so yeah that's a lot of patience.

[mildlyinterested]

The overall system Prendergast is installing will have much more of a cutting edge than was there previously. It will at least give Munster a punchers chance of beating the best. Under JVG it could be summed up by '80%'. A style that could consistently beat 80% of teams but was also consistently losing to the top teams.

Birch was saying on the 42(free this week) it would be January to see improvements from what Prendergast and Leamy(defense) were doing which seems like a long way off. It's half of the season.....so yeah that's a lot of patience.

Birch is close to Prendergast so hardly a surprise.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

The overall system Prendergast is installing will have much more of a cutting edge than was there previously. It will at least give Munster a punchers chance of beating the best. Under JVG it could be summed up by '80%'. A style that could consistently beat 80% of teams but was also consistently losing to the top teams.

Birch was saying on the 42(free this week) it would be January to see improvements from what Prendergast and Leamy(defense) were doing which seems like a long way off. It's half of the season.....so yeah that's a lot of patience.

He said the same on ATH and I thought it was crazy. You can't expect them to hit the ground running in every facet of the game but I think you'd want to see major improvements this week, never mind by January.

I remember a coach telling me that if you're in any doubt about joining the ruck then there is no doubt and you need to hit it, better to an extra body that doesn't add anything than be waiting for a ball that your team has just lost. Munster could improve hugely by having that attitude this week. It wouldn't produce the complete attacking game they're trying to develop but they could still have the same shape and threats off the first couple of phases and improve a lot just by not losing the ball so easily. Talk of waiting until January is total horseshit.

[paddyor]

The overall system Prendergast is installing will have much more of a cutting edge than was there previously. It will at least give Munster a punchers chance of beating the best. Under JVG it could be summed up by '80%'. A style that could consistently beat 80% of teams but was also consistently losing to the top teams.

Birch was saying on the 42(free this week) it would be January to see improvements from what Prendergast and Leamy(defense) were doing which seems like a long way off. It's half of the season.....so yeah that's a lot of patience.

He said the same on ATH and I thought it was crazy. You can't expect them to hit the ground running in every facet of the game but I think you'd want to see major improvements this week, never mind by January.

I remember a coach telling me that if you're in any doubt about joining the ruck then there is no doubt and you need to hit it, better to an extra body that doesn't add anything than be waiting for a ball that your team has just lost. Munster could improve hugely by having that attitude this week. It wouldn't produce the complete attacking game they're trying to develop but they could still have the same shape and threats off the first couple of phases and improve a lot just by not losing the ball so easily. Talk of waiting until January is total horseshit.

Yeah doesn't pass the smell test. They don't have to be chucking it around like the Fiji 7s team but you'd expect at least some gradual improvement WOW. A slow start with a few bad or narrow losses is fine but if you're still up and down half way thrui the season there's something wrong.

@mildy yeah I was thinking that. Even last season when he flew off the handle about their loss to us in the Aviva. Just felt a bit overdone like he was preparing the ground for the new caoching ticket. Leamy and Prendergast have been saying the traininng intensity is way off where it needs to be so might not be total bunk but it feels a bit like managing expectations.

[ronk]

We're still in the experimental phase of the season, it's basically a paid preseason. Internationals aren't back.

Munster have a fair bit to do if they're making big changes to the pace of training. Jan is long but with the international break and Heineken Cup it's still a realistic point where we should see results and gives time for coaches to make adjustments. JvG worked on a longer timescale. I remember people talking about how he'd only completed his first full season and needed time.

[blockhead]

Zero offloads from Munster.....


Dancing at the disco, bumper to bumper
Wait a minute! Where's me jumper? Where's me jumper? Where's me jumper?
Oooh no. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no.

7 offloads (9th most in league), 22 defenders beaten (3rd most), 404m run (4th most). That's with all the handling and breakdown errors.

Thats the URCs websites fault. It said 0 offloads yesterday. I wash my hands of it.

[munster#1]

Zero offloads from Munster.....


Dancing at the disco, bumper to bumper
Wait a minute! Where's me jumper? Where's me jumper? Where's me jumper?
Oooh no. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no.

7 offloads (9th most in league), 22 defenders beaten (3rd most), 404m run (4th most). That's with all the handling and breakdown errors.

Ah here, don’t you be letting facts get in the way of a good rant from someone who didn’t even watch the match.

It makes their childish song reference look even more childish.

[dropkick]

The overall system Prendergast is installing will have much more of a cutting edge than was there previously. It will at least give Munster a punchers chance of beating the best. Under JVG it could be summed up by '80%'. A style that could consistently beat 80% of teams but was also consistently losing to the top teams.

Birch was saying on the 42(free this week) it would be January to see improvements from what Prendergast and Leamy(defense) were doing which seems like a long way off. It's half of the season.....so yeah that's a lot of patience.

He said the same on ATH and I thought it was crazy. You can't expect them to hit the ground running in every facet of the game but I think you'd want to see major improvements this week, never mind by January.

I remember a coach telling me that if you're in any doubt about joining the ruck then there is no doubt and you need to hit it, better to an extra body that doesn't add anything than be waiting for a ball that your team has just lost. Munster could improve hugely by having that attitude this week. It wouldn't produce the complete attacking game they're trying to develop but they could still have the same shape and threats off the first couple of phases and improve a lot just by not losing the ball so easily. Talk of waiting until January is total horseshit.

It took Irelands coaching team a while before things clicked. I think munster are making so many changes at once that the players have not formed the new habits yet and are overthinking things therefore making mistakes like handling errors etc.


I think what Birch means is it will take until January until the players know the system subconsciously and be in a state of flow. Some players will adapt quicker than others and some players might just not be suited to the new style.


Leamy said they were aiming to hit top form after christmas so they know themselves they might be in for a tough start. They've bulldozed the house and started again rather than modifying it.

[dropkick]

Zero offloads from Munster.....


Dancing at the disco, bumper to bumper
Wait a minute! Where's me jumper? Where's me jumper? Where's me jumper?
Oooh no. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no.

7 offloads (9th most in league), 22 defenders beaten (3rd most), 404m run (4th most). That's with all the handling and breakdown errors.

Ah here, don’t you be letting facts get in the way of a good rant from someone who didn’t even watch the match.

It makes their childish song reference look even more childish.

Fekitoa with 3 of the offloads. He made mistakes but is already looking like a good replacement for de Allende.

[Flash Gordon]

The overall system Prendergast is installing will have much more of a cutting edge than was there previously. It will at least give Munster a punchers chance of beating the best. Under JVG it could be summed up by '80%'. A style that could consistently beat 80% of teams but was also consistently losing to the top teams.

The big requirement right now is patience.
From the players, fans and the media.

Munster are starting to reintegrate their internationals, with them possibly being available this weekend, but these players will be a number of weeks behind the non internationals.
Additionally, 10 squad players will be touring SA with Ireland, so their development in the new system will be slightly curtailed.

On top of all that, Munster have a relatively inexperienced squad, with a large percentage barely out of the academy.

From viewing last weekends game, Munster need to remember to man the breakdown, because all the flair in the world will not win games if you are getting slow ball or getting turned over for fun.

I saw some of the commentary that Van Graan clearly wasn't the problem which is total madness. When Schmidt came in we were rubbish for 4 or 5 games with some commentators saying he'd lost the dressing room. Leo's took a while to build too. What you want as a club and as a fan is to see the team developing a game plan which you feel will challenge at the top table, that can take a season to build and as you say that takes patience. The media doesn't have a great record on patience with coaching at Leinster or Munster but the club leadership has to ignore all that.

[paddyor]

We're still in the experimental phase of the season, it's basically a paid preseason. Internationals aren't back.

Munster have a fair bit to do if they're making big changes to the pace of training. Jan is long but with the international break and Heineken Cup it's still a realistic point where we should see results and gives time for coaches to make adjustments. JvG worked on a longer timescale. I remember people talking about how he'd only completed his first full season and needed time.

And in hindsight that was all cope.

[paddyor]

Birch was saying on the 42(free this week) it would be January to see improvements from what Prendergast and Leamy(defense) were doing which seems like a long way off. It's half of the season.....so yeah that's a lot of patience.

He said the same on ATH and I thought it was crazy. You can't expect them to hit the ground running in every facet of the game but I think you'd want to see major improvements this week, never mind by January.

I remember a coach telling me that if you're in any doubt about joining the ruck then there is no doubt and you need to hit it, better to an extra body that doesn't add anything than be waiting for a ball that your team has just lost. Munster could improve hugely by having that attitude this week. It wouldn't produce the complete attacking game they're trying to develop but they could still have the same shape and threats off the first couple of phases and improve a lot just by not losing the ball so easily. Talk of waiting until January is total horseshit.

It took Irelands coaching team a while before things clicked. .....

Just on this point. I think Farrell spent a year figuring out what his best team was. A lot of guys tried and jettisoned(Toner, Scannell, Cooney R Byrne, Ruddock, Burns, McGrath, Larmour and Stockdale at 15, POM to bench). It could well have happened sooner if it wasn't Covid disrupted too. I have a kind of mental block about the Autumn nations cup where I know it's technically test rugby but it just feels fake.