Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

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berliner
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by berliner »

wixfjord wrote: September 13th, 2022, 9:31 pm
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: September 13th, 2022, 9:17 pm No it doesn’t compute, the second and third string players are the ones who’ve actually been playing the games so it’s hard to market that no matter what way you slice it. IIRC you were one of the posters calling for changes to the league because of facile victories. Even if you weren’t, there was clearly a feeling on here that change was needed, and if fans on here were feeling that way then it would have been extremely difficult for Leinster to overcome that with casual fans when that was the product they were dealing with.

I also wouldn’t forget the progress that has been made over the last 20 years. We’ve gone from a small time organisation playing in Donnybrook, to bigger crowds in the RDS, and now we’re regular visitors to the Aviva and get good crowds there. Crowds over the last couple of years have been massively affected by Covid too so let’s not forget that either.

Not saying we can’t improve but we’re by no means a failure and should look at the bigger picture.
I disagree, I think it's a fair point. As I say, big stars attract fans. No doubt about that, as the above research says.

That doesn't mean we can't do better to attract fans by making bigger stars out of those who play in the league for us, which we haven't done.

We've made great progress in the last 20 years, and that has stagnated in the last 10.

I'm not saying it's easy to market, I'm saying we haven't done it well and in many cases haven't tried enough.

There's massive potential and a little bit of creativity, lateral thinking and risk taking is required to unlock fan growth.

And of course I am not just talking about league games either, as I've said. Even when we have the first string players we often haven't drawn big crowds in the RDS.
The lack of competition in the PRO14, and a resultant tendency to rest first choice players, definitely impacts the interest of some fans. Some family members can't even be bothered to watch these games on the box. It will be interesting to see if this changes now that the SA teams have upped the standard, which will require Leinster to change its selection policy for these games.

The GAA operate a season ticket scheme where fans who attend a certain percentage of their teams' games (it was 60% until recently) were guaranteed a ticket to the All Ireland final if their team should qualify. I wonder if a similar scheme might pay dividends if the provincial season ticket holders who could document attendance were to get tickets for the 6N?
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blockhead
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by blockhead »

I think the relentless success has been a factor. I personally know of a number of people who have stopped getting season tickets in recent years citing it as a reason. One of them actually said "I'know, I don't think I've ever even seen Leinster lose a game in the RDS" I didn't have a response.
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riocard911
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by riocard911 »

blockhead wrote: September 14th, 2022, 10:09 am I think the relentless success has been a factor. I personally know of a number of people who have stopped getting season tickets in recent years citing it as a reason. One of them actually said "I'know, I don't think I've ever even seen Leinster lose a game in the RDS" I didn't have a response.
I wouldn't have had a response either. I can't even get my head around that thinking. I never want Leinster to see lose - be it in the RDS or anywhere else and I can't ever imagine them winning too much. "Does not compute", as Robot Robinson would say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBAijg5Betw
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Dexter
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by Dexter »

riocard911 wrote: September 14th, 2022, 4:58 pm
blockhead wrote: September 14th, 2022, 10:09 am I think the relentless success has been a factor. I personally know of a number of people who have stopped getting season tickets in recent years citing it as a reason. One of them actually said "I'know, I don't think I've ever even seen Leinster lose a game in the RDS" I didn't have a response.
I wouldn't have had a response either. I can't even get my head around that thinking. I never want Leinster to see lose - be it in the RDS or anywhere else and I can't ever imagine them winning too much. "Does not compute", as Robot Robinson would say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBAijg5Betw
Agree, that's just shite talk
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Keith
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by Keith »

Dexter wrote: September 14th, 2022, 10:29 pm
riocard911 wrote: September 14th, 2022, 4:58 pm
blockhead wrote: September 14th, 2022, 10:09 am I think the relentless success has been a factor. I personally know of a number of people who have stopped getting season tickets in recent years citing it as a reason. One of them actually said "I'know, I don't think I've ever even seen Leinster lose a game in the RDS" I didn't have a response.
I wouldn't have had a response either. I can't even get my head around that thinking. I never want Leinster to see lose - be it in the RDS or anywhere else and I can't ever imagine them winning too much. "Does not compute", as Robot Robinson would say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBAijg5Betw
Agree, that's just shite talk
I agree that it's not really an excuse, but didn't Celtic's crowds drop when they were winning leagues for fun and Rangers were playing in the lower divisions?
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LeinsterLeader
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by LeinsterLeader »

Interesting article in the IE today basically saying 'bums in seats' is no longer (since Covid) Leinsters main driving force for revenue now anyway. As it was being spoken about here I thought I'd mention it but as it's fup all to do with Munster I'll put the link in the 'A whiff of Cordite' thread.
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paddyor
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by paddyor »

hugonaut wrote: September 13th, 2022, 7:39 pm I think that the study referred to in the article is here: https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/media/livac ... r,Fans.pdf

It's an interesting paper, but it is almost completely concerned [like 98% of it] with broadcast viewing figures of the EPL. It's not about people going to games, it's about people at home choosing which Premier League games to watch on the box [the title is 'ARMCHAIR FANS: NEW INSIGHTS INTO THE DEMAND FOR TELEVISED SOCCER' ].

I don't think the paper's findings where it might concern Leinster attendances are wholly irrelevant, but there are certain aspects about attending matches that simply aren't dealt with in a paper on watching games on the box: comfort, travel times and attendant costs, weather conditions etc.
There's a useful test case with the PRL too who less than a decade ago proclaimed that "what the fans wanted was to see the biggest names etc" and proceeded to nearly bankrupt themselves chasing that model.
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munster#1
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by munster#1 »

Team named to play Cardiff.

Interesting to see how Daly goes at 15.
That is a big back line. If Farrell and Fekitoa can gel, it could be a real nightmare for defences.

Great to see Knox getting a start, he will be up against it, but having 2 TH locks behind him could stabilise the scrum, giving him a chance to grow into the game.

Munster: Shane Daly; Calvin Nash, Chris Farrell, Malakai Fekitoa, Liam Coombes; Ben Healy, Paddy Patterson; Josh Wycherley, Niall Scannell, Keynan Knox; Jean Kleyn, Fineen Wycherley; Jack O’Donoghue (C), Alex Kendellen, Jack O’Sullivan.

Replacements: Diarmuid Barron, Dave Kilcoyne, Roman Salanoa, Tom Ahern, John Hodnett, Neil Cronin, Jack Crowley, Rory Scannell.
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wixfjord
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by wixfjord »

Cardiff Rugby: Liam Williams; Owen Lane, Rey Lee-Lo, Max Llewellyn, Josh Adams; Jarrod Evans, Tomos Williams; Rhys Carré, Kristian Dacey, Dillon Lewis, Josh Turnbull (capt.), Seb Davies, James Botham, Thomas Young, Taulupe Faletau

Replacements: Liam Belcher, Rhys Barratt, Dmitri Arhip, Matthew Screech, Lopeti Timani, Lloyd Williams, Rhys Priestland, Uilisi Halaholo


That is a really nice looking Cardiff side. Young, Faletau & Williams are big additions.

Should be a good game this.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by dropkick »

Talented Cardiff side. They should be much better this season but it's a double edged sword signing Welsh Internationals as they're usually not arsed about playing for their regions.
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munster#1
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by munster#1 »

dropkick wrote: September 16th, 2022, 1:03 pm Talented Cardiff side. They should be much better this season but it's a double edged sword signing Welsh Internationals as they're usually not arsed about playing for their regions.
Munster will really be up against it in this match.
Not overly confident after seeing the squad announcement.

However, it is great to see Cardiff with such a strong squad.
This will only be good for the league.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by wixfjord »

Just googling Max Llewellyn there, who I hadn't heard of before.

6'5, 105kg and son of Gareth Llewellyn. Could be an interesting match up with Fekitoa.
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munster#1
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by munster#1 »

wixfjord wrote: September 16th, 2022, 1:16 pm Just googling Max Llewellyn there, who I hadn't heard of before.

6'5, 105kg and son of Gareth Llewellyn. Could be an interesting match up with Fekitoa.
Jesus, he would make most backrowers look small.
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munster#1
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by munster#1 »

Stephen Ferris seems to be a big fan of Frisch.
He has him tipped as one to watch for this season, and goes on to say “ Frisch is Irish qualified through his grandmother, and Ferris doesn’t rule out a late charge into the World Cup squad.”

Big claim to be making, he’d want to watch himself or he’ll come under attack 😉
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by sunshiner1 »

Munster: Shane Daly; Calvin Nash, Chris Farrell, Malakai Fekitoa, Liam Coombes; Ben Healy, Paddy Patterson; Josh Wycherley, Niall Scannell, Keynan Knox; Jean Kleyn, Fineen Wycherley; Jack O’Donoghue (C), Alex Kendellen, Jack O’Sullivan.

Replacements: Diarmuid Barron, Dave Kilcoyne, Roman Salanoa, Tom Ahern, John Hodnett, Neil Cronin, Jack Crowley, Rory Scannell.

That's an inexperienced but exciting line-up. Really hope they come good. Regardless of the outcome it will be good for these players to get minutes under their belts.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by ronk »

munster#1 wrote: September 16th, 2022, 1:43 pm Stephen Ferris seems to be a big fan of Frisch.
He has him tipped as one to watch for this season, and goes on to say “ Frisch is Irish qualified through his grandmother, and Ferris doesn’t rule out a late charge into the World Cup squad.”

Big claim to be making, he’d want to watch himself or he’ll come under attack 😉
Not making the bench this week (when a centre was picked at 23) is reason enough to hype him more.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by wixfjord »

wixfjord wrote: September 16th, 2022, 1:16 pm Just googling Max Llewellyn there, who I hadn't heard of before.

6'5, 105kg and son of Gareth Llewellyn. Could be an interesting match up with Fekitoa.
Giving Munster serious problems.

He's a bit of a Jamie Roberts look about him. Picked a lovely line for second try.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Paddy Patterson is giving an impressive service to Ben Healy. Much improved pace & accuracy of passing.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Munster seem incapable of playing what’s in front of them. They open up a little space but stick to the planned move instead of going for it.

Decent outing so far for Knox. Nothing to write home about but he’s been pretty solid and hasn’t given away stupid penalties so definitely an upgrade so far. He can be a bit slow to get up off the deck though, needs to get a bit fitter I’d say.
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Re: Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

There are passages of play where the game passes him by but you can really see Salanoa’s power when he is involved. Pretty encouraging day on the tighthead front for Munster.

Their work at the breakdown has been really poor.
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