Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

[hugonaut]

Going into that period, I thought Munster would have a pretty good chance against us, but I was sanguine about it. That was a team with enough power and know-how to give us real trouble and maybe knock us over, but it definitely had a lifespan.

Obviously that window panned out quite poorly for Munster, and particularly so against Leinster – 7 games against Leinster, 6 losses and the only win coming in the Rainbow Cup, a taped-together tournament put together at the last moment to fill out the schedule.

The big problem isn't necessarily the players who have retired or departed Munster, although some good ones have*, it's that
a] all the players are two years older and have had two tough, unsuccessful seasons in that period where a number of them have stagnated; and
b] the new coach has to make a rake of decisions on whether to stick or twist with the incumbents, some of whom are playing themselves off the team.

The NH season, club and cup, is decided in Q2 of the year – April/May/June. In Q2 of 2023, Kilcoyne will be 34 and Archer will be 35. O'Mahony will be 33, Zebo [if selected] 33, Murray 34, Earls 35. Of those guys, O'Mahony had a great season, Earls had a pretty good season, the rest of them ...

*Retired: C.J. Stander, B. Holland;
Departed: D. de Allende, J. Ryan, R. Marshall, K. O'Byrne, J. Cronin, N. McCarthy, J.J. Hanrahan, D. Sweetnam

[ronk]

That was also the time it dawned on most people that JvG wasn't cutting it and that some elite assistant coaches and big name signings were needed.

They were well placed then. But it wasn't a surprise that they underachieved. Rowntree now has a year of those guys to smooth the transition and position by position it's not really all that ugly except tighthead.

Even there they know what they get with Archer and now Knox gets a shot, maybe even Salanoa. Rowntree can always blame the other guy and have a good shot at pressuring the IRFU to let them sign someone.

Zebo isn't doing much, he won't be hard to replace, Earls is good but so's Conway. Casey might well be starting ahead of Murray by the RWC anyway.

Replacing all those lads gives Rowntree an extra year of honeymoon. Sort of.

Munster don't need to do anything fancy gameplay wise. Round the corner with some improved passing and footwork would do a lot. They have the wingers to convert quick ball if they can get it wide fast enough.

[munster#1]

With all due respect to Keith Earls and the player he has become, he never was an international class centre, his passing was way to inconsistent and he didn’t really know how to defend the channel. He has proven himself to be a very good winger and I think he could have been a really good fullback.

In saying all of that he’s been on some journey both physically and mentally and he gets nothing but respect from me and probably most on here

As a massive fan of Earls, and given all the joy that he has given rugby fans such as you an I, I am going to respectfully disengage from this conversation, as I have far too much respect for him to say anything negative about him online.

I do agree with you that is has been some journey, and one that can not have been easy.

OK, I can respect that. But just to be absolutely clear pointing out that he wasn’t an international class centre is not disrespectful to the man, it’s a just statement of fact.

Not saying it’s disrespectful, just not something I personally want to write online about a player who has been such a great servant to club and country, and more recently a person who has been a massive advocate for mental health.

[munster#1]

I really don’t buy the shoehorned discussion, Earls was a great underage centre, and had some very good games there at senior level too.
His only downfall was that he was not BOD.

Earls showed his true professionalism and mantle when he managed to reinvent himself as one of Irelands best players as a winger, and has made a great career for himself there.

He has went from being a person who divided the Irish supporter base, to one that is now unanimously supported across the board.

With all due respect to Keith Earls and the player he has become, he never was an international class centre, his passing was way to inconsistent and he didn’t really know how to defend the channel. He has proven himself to be a very good winger and I think he could have been a really good fullback.

In saying all of that he’s been on some journey both physically and mentally and he gets nothing but respect from me and probably most on here

My Favourite Munster player.
Most people probably forget that he had a very major mid career injury crisis, speculation that he may retire early even. But he came back, as good as ever, nah, even better. He kept his pace and his step. The try v England back in 2021 IIRC, was so him. Top class winger.

That’s definitely something that makes his journey even more remarkable.
His career looked like it was aligned with Fitzgerald’s. Where both looked destined to finish early.

I remember many speculating that both players were pushed too far too soon, which attributed to there bodies breaking down.
Fortunately for Earls he managed to learn how to manage his body and his workload.

I remember reading that Earls attributed his injuries to his obsession with gaining bulk to play in the centre, and once he found his correct weight for his frame, the injuries lessened.

Edit: found that article

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the42. ... %3Famp%3D1

[OTT]

Munster Rugby the inQuest Continues 2022/2023 would have been my choice, just sayin.

[munster#1]

Looking at the Munster squad for next season, it is clear that Munster need to sign a TH prop.

We are well stocked with back 5 forwards with Beirne and RG back, half backs look good, with some solid options in both positions.

Centre definitely needs a local product to come through as we are a little light there when you look past Fekitoa and Farrell with only Scannell looking like a HC standard player.

Back three also needs some strengthening, but with Campbell likely to step up it is mostly only the wings that need development.
I would love to see Daly having a cracking season next season, and take one of the wing jerseys off of the lads ahead of him.

[OTT]

Bump

[cormac]

Why is there this second Munster thread for next season?

[Oldschool]

Addressing a few comments.
Anyway who thought JVG would be a good appointment doesn't know much about rugby and therein lies Munster's problem they have consistently got the coaching ticket wrong and when they got it right they didn't back him and allowed him to be undermined (Penney)
"inQuest"
Signing their way out of trouble hasn't worked and as someone pointed out they've been like magpies, gathering a lot of nig name glitter that doesn't shine like it supposed to.
Rowntree hasn't a chance tbf to him if some don't want him already and he wasn't their first choice.
Munster 1 is going to keep pushing his thread which is fair enough but it's indicative of the Munster my way mentality.
1978 (???) is a long time ago but 2008 is even longer.

[Oldschool]

Plus 1

[Oldschool]

Why is there this second Munster thread for next season?

This is the third Munster thread for next season.
You obviously missed the "La Rochelle B......." thread.
Worth a look!

[munster#1]

Why is there this second Munster thread for next season?

Just spotted that now.

Just shows the esteem that Munster are held in.

Saying that, it does look like the other 2 have been set up in an effort to extract the urine.

[munster#1]

Looking through the current Munster squad, I am hoping that we see a few more of them make an impact at international level.

J Wycherley, whilst a bit off just yet, could well come good over the next 12 months to give Ireland and Munster a much needed boost in a position that both are reasonably light.

I can’t see Barron making the step up in the next 12 months.

I think Ahern may get a few call ups, but is possibly still too light to make any impact at international level.

Coombes is best placed to take the Irish 8 shirt imo.
Especially as Conan seems to have struggled to regain the form that earned him a lions call up.

Hodnett may also be in the frame, but more likely just make the training squads.

Casey could well push Murray out of the frame next season, but would probably need JGP to get injured before he gains a few starts.

I think Healy may get a call up for a few squads, but I’d say most minutes will go to Carberry in the run up to the RWC.

Disappointingly, there’s not much in the back line.
I personally think that Haley is a talent that could make a difference to Ireland’s attack, but his face doesn’t seem to fit, or I am wrong in my assessment.

[deco]

Well that was another disastrous season for Munster. Did I read that they were a Glasgow win away from not being in the Heineken Cup next year?

We'll see what next season brings for Munster. My guess is a combination of angry demands for big name signings, false expectations dashed and smoke being blown up the hole of the younger players who were finally being given a chance this season. The requirement to keep Flake at ten will be cause ructions. Hopefully the "best fans in the world" won't resort to form and give him the Keatley treatment.

All going well, they should hold on to their top eight position ahead of Dragons, Treviso and Edinburgh and the rest of the bottom half of the league.

[ronk]

Well they haven't helped their seeding for the Heineken Cup, fortunately that might not be an issue this year.

I think it's time for them to take URC more seriously. Get fans behind it and recognise that they won't get the HC success they crave without building on URC. All the more so with SA teams competing for the limited places.

If the Welsh and Scots bounce back they could be caught out and miss entirely. 18 games is a short season.

There's a fair bit of transformation needed but there are some good building blocks.

I really hope they choose now to stop that scrapping nonsense. It's worked for them but really it's an overused and mostly ineffective tactic.

Guys like Kendellen can actually play rugby. If they'd tried that they wouldn't have been chasing the game.

[neill_m]

Well that was another disastrous season for Munster. Did I read that they were a Glasgow win away from not being in the Heineken Cup next year?

We'll see what next season brings for Munster. My guess is a combination of angry demands for big name signings, false expectations dashed and smoke being blown up the hole of the younger players who were finally being given a chance this season. The requirement to keep Flake at ten will be cause ructions. Hopefully the "best fans in the world" won't resort to form and give him the Keatley treatment.

All going well, they should hold on to their top eight position ahead of Dragons, Treviso and Edinburgh and the rest of the bottom half of the league.

3 wins, Glasgow had to win the URC playoffs to put Munster into the Challenge Cup next year.

[ronk]

Glasgow lost 1 game at home all season (us) and won away twice (Zebre and Connacht).

The table has become quite compressed with the way most teams win at home. We had 13 wins. Glasgow had 10, Lions had 8. Catching us is harder because we'd have come up with extra points if we had needed them. But it's really only flipping 2-3 losses into wins or vice versa that will see someone shoot up the table or down.

[munster#1]

Very good article on Munster.
Highlighting many of Munster’s failings over the last few years.

Additionally, it shines a niches needed light on Munster’s lack of real talent at TH.
Many on here would not begrudge Munster a signing there, as it is a continuous point being made, that Archer is not the future, and it is clear that Munster do not believe that Knox or Salanoa are at the races just yet.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2022/060 ... es-to-fix/

[deco]

Well that was another disastrous season for Munster. Did I read that they were a Glasgow win away from not being in the Heineken Cup next year?

We'll see what next season brings for Munster. My guess is a combination of angry demands for big name signings, false expectations dashed and smoke being blown up the hole of the younger players who were finally being given a chance this season. The requirement to keep Flake at ten will be cause ructions. Hopefully the "best fans in the world" won't resort to form and give him the Keatley treatment.

All going well, they should hold on to their top eight position ahead of Dragons, Treviso and Edinburgh and the rest of the bottom half of the league.

3 wins, Glasgow had to win the URC playoffs to put Munster into the Challenge Cup next year.

Ahh, okay & thanks. Hard to believe that for a proud club, qualifying was out of their hands. Nice that we got them into HC rugby next year though.

[ronk]

It was only out of their hands for a day. It was in their hands while they were still in the play offs.

It would have been possible to have the final as a play-off for HC qualification.