Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

[erskinechilders]

I see Quinlan suggested Munster move Carbery to 15 to give him time and space and also to give Healy game time. if they did that Leinster should be raging. Cullen and Lancaster wanted Carbery as their 15 going forward.

[blockhead]

Simply appaling luck for the young man. 54 minutes he's played since he joined Munster!
Munster seemed to be easing him back quite gently it seemed.
Munster are our main rivals along with Ulster but its still great to see our league attracting global stars like RG, De Alennde and Vermuelen.

[fourthirtythree]

I see Quinlan suggested Munster move Carbery to 15 to give him time and space and also to give Healy game time. if they did that Leinster should be raging. Cullen and Lancaster wanted Carbery as their 15 going forward.

Blame Schmidt. He pressured him to move. Lancaster claimed that his response in situations like that is to ask "what is best for the young player in question?" And he was convinced that staying in Leinster on his trajectory was it.

I agree.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I see Quinlan suggested Munster move Carbery to 15 to give him time and space and also to give Healy game time. if they did that Leinster should be raging. Cullen and Lancaster wanted Carbery as their 15 going forward.

Blame Schmidt. He pressured him to move. Lancaster claimed that his response in situations like that is to ask "what is best for the young player in question?" And he was convinced that staying in Leinster on his trajectory was it.

I agree.

As much as I disagreed with the move at the time, there’s no denying that there was sound logic to it.

However, I think that bringing him to Japan is a real black mark against everyone involved. Even if he was able to take the field he was never ever ever going to be in any kind of state to play well. If a fella is broken then he isn’t suddenly not broken just because you all want to win a World Cup. He was 24 at the time, just suck it up and let him live to fight another day. A really sh!t call that still annoys me a lot.

[ronk]

I dunno. It was one of many injuries and it was the one time you actually do roll the dice.

In causing so much trouble moving him, Schmidt was always going to reach for him. And he held together enough to make the big games.

[blockhead]

I dunno. It was one of many injuries and it was the one time you actually do roll the dice.

In causing so much trouble moving him, Schmidt was always going to reach for him. And he held together enough to make the big games.

Yeah I think the Carbery injury history has been muddied in may peoples minds.
Ronk is dead right, it's World Cups that really count. If you were to apply the "week too soon" criteria to every player then half the squad would be sitting at home fuming.
Risk taking is part of life, sometimes you risk it more than others. Joey was a risk justified, he played in 3 games.
Then he came home had his obligatory rest, was assessed by the Munster medics and they threw him straight back into an O'Classico followed by a game against Ulster in which he played 80 mins.
It was there he got injured and then spent the next 13 or so months out.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I dunno. It was one of many injuries and it was the one time you actually do roll the dice.

In causing so much trouble moving him, Schmidt was always going to reach for him. And he held together enough to make the big games.

It is the one time you roll the dice but not for this injury.

Do me a favour, google “Joey Carbery ankle” and look at the images that come up of how much pain he was in and how upset he was. The fact that that guy still went to Japan is a disgrace and the proof is in what happened afterwards.

[Morf]

Confirmed that Snyman has 'sustained a re-rupture of his cruciate ligament'.

https://twitter.com/Munsterrugby/status ... 2643336198

That is either ridiculously bad luck or someone in S&C has made a major error.

Even with a surgery and appropriate rehab a ligament isn't the same post major injury.

Having the expectation that every athlete will return from a knee ligament at all let alone as good or capable as before is foolish.

Immediately calling S&C into question shows an ignorance of what surgery, rehab and S&C can and should do in these circumstances.

[Morf]

Really enjoyed watching Munster by the way.

Took more enjoyment knowing most were IE too.

[blockhead]

I dunno. It was one of many injuries and it was the one time you actually do roll the dice.

In causing so much trouble moving him, Schmidt was always going to reach for him. And he held together enough to make the big games.

It is the one time you roll the dice but not for this injury.

Do me a favour, google “Joey Carbery ankle” and look at the images that come up of how much pain he was in and how upset he was. The fact that that guy still went to Japan is a disgrace and the proof is in what happened afterwards.

What happened afterwards was that the Munster Medics had a look, and said "Good to go".

[Oldschool]

I dunno. It was one of many injuries and it was the one time you actually do roll the dice.

In causing so much trouble moving him, Schmidt was always going to reach for him. And he held together enough to make the big games.

I didn't agree at the time and twenty twenty hindsight hasn't changed my opinion.
Neither Carberry or Sexton were fit enough to play in a RWC at the time and we paid the price.
You get found out doing that sort of stuff in a RWC.

[ronk]

I dunno. It was one of many injuries and it was the one time you actually do roll the dice.

In causing so much trouble moving him, Schmidt was always going to reach for him. And he held together enough to make the big games.

It is the one time you roll the dice but not for this injury.

Do me a favour, google “Joey Carbery ankle” and look at the images that come up of how much pain he was in and how upset he was. The fact that that guy still went to Japan is a disgrace and the proof is in what happened afterwards.

After Jan Carbery played 2 6N games, made 2 rushed comebacks for Munster (getting injured the first time) and injured himself. I don't think he should have lined up to start against Italy.

If the medical advice was that he could play though pain then he was doing it. Alun Wyn Jones did it. Having jacked in his Leinster career to have a chance at a better setup for the RWC he was always going to want to go. Schmidt was always going to take the chance too.

He was rushed back for the Leinster game and he wasn't right. He was avoiding contact to a huge degree. In 12 months he was rushed back 5 times from injury. All of them were wrong from the perspective of player management, the RWC was the one time there was a valid excuse. The 3 Munster returns were Leinster twice and a HC knockout game, absolute madness.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

AWJ is a dreadful comparison. His career is nearly over and a shoulder is different to an ankle for an outhalf who relies on his dancing feet.

It doesn’t matter how much people wanted him to play and what the reasons were, his ankle was f%~ked as evidenced by needing surgery the following February and not making it back for over a year.

I’m not really sure how you can argue this considering those facts above. It looked awful at the time, he was in agony and upset, it was clear as day that it was a bad injury. It wasn’t just bringing him to Japan either, it was also the fact that he had a setback that made him miss the Russia game and yet he still wasn’t sent home.

There’s no point arguing it further because I won’t see your POV. With Henshaw I get it, with AWJ for the Lions I kind of of get it, with Richie McCaw at the 2011 World Cup I get it, but this was just an obvious mistake at the time and the consequences have been devastating.

[FLIP]

Confirmed that Snyman has 'sustained a re-rupture of his cruciate ligament'.

https://twitter.com/Munsterrugby/status ... 2643336198

That is either ridiculously bad luck or someone in S&C has made a major error.

Even with a surgery and appropriate rehab a ligament isn't the same post major injury.

Having the expectation that every athlete will return from a knee ligament at all let alone as good or capable as before is foolish.

Immediately calling S&C into question shows an ignorance of what surgery, rehab and S&C can and should do in these circumstances.

Yep, even the most successful ligament reconstruction will not be as strong as the original ligament, and each successive reconstruction will be weaker. S&C can only add muscular support but that doesn't allow for any extra real support against unnatural movements which tend to cause ligament damage.

[Oldschool]

I dunno. It was one of many injuries and it was the one time you actually do roll the dice.

In causing so much trouble moving him, Schmidt was always going to reach for him. And he held together enough to make the big games.

It is the one time you roll the dice but not for this injury.

Do me a favour, google “Joey Carbery ankle” and look at the images that come up of how much pain he was in and how upset he was. The fact that that guy still went to Japan is a disgrace and the proof is in what happened afterwards.

After Jan Carbery played 2 6N games, made 2 rushed comebacks for Munster (getting injured the first time) and injured himself. I don't think he should have lined up to start against Italy.

If the medical advice was that he could play though pain then he was doing it. Alun Wyn Jones did it. Having jacked in his Leinster career to have a chance at a better setup for the RWC he was always going to want to go. Schmidt was always going to take the chance too.

He was rushed back for the Leinster game and he wasn't right. He was avoiding contact to a huge degree. In 12 months he was rushed back 5 times from injury. All of them were wrong from the perspective of player management, the RWC was the one time there was a valid excuse. The 3 Munster returns were Leinster twice and a HC knockout game, absolute madness.

Can't agree at all with your logic.
There are no valid excuses, including the Schmidt was going to bring him anyway.
Trying to justify it and giving coaches a pass for doing
so only encourages repeat offending and condones bad behaviour.
It's not good enough, simply isn't.

[JB1973]

Munster played well Sunday, the lad Gallagher at 15 very good ,the hooker and cloete on the flank were excellent

Looks like snyman has done cruciate again huge blow for him and for munster

[ronk]

Can't agree at all with your logic.
There are no valid excuses, including the Schmidt was going to bring him anyway.
Trying to justify it and giving coaches a pass for doing
so only encourages repeat offending and condones bad behaviour.
It's not good enough, simply isn't.

Carbery made 5 rushed and risky returns from injury in 12 months. Why do you ignore the other 4 times it happened? He rushed back to start the HC QF, he rushed back again to start the URC semi, he rushed back to Ireland warm ups because there was a Sexton doubt (when he should have been wrapped in cotton wool instead), he rushed back post RWC to try and establish himself ahead of Sexton.

If you took all those risks then why start being conservative at the RWC. Munster played Carbery 8 games in a row leading into the 1st international break, last 6 were starts. They were asking for trouble with a player who was already known to be fragile.

If he needed surgery then it's only a two month or so delay patching him up for the RWC and he could have gone for an op after the RWC instead of trying to manage it again to get him back mid season.

Otherwise yeah, I'd have stood him down for the RWC.

[Oldschool]

Can't agree at all with your logic.
There are no valid excuses, including the Schmidt was going to bring him anyway.
Trying to justify it and giving coaches a pass for doing
so only encourages repeat offending and condones bad behaviour.
It's not good enough, simply isn't.

Carbery made 5 rushed and risky returns from injury in 12 months. Why do you ignore the other 4 times it happened? He rushed back to start the HC QF, he rushed back again to start the URC semi, he rushed back to Ireland warm ups because there was a Sexton doubt (when he should have been wrapped in cotton wool instead), he rushed back post RWC to try and establish himself ahead of Sexton.

If you took all those risks then why start being conservative at the RWC. Munster played Carbery 8 games in a row leading into the 1st international break, last 6 were starts. They were asking for trouble with a player who was already known to be fragile.

If he needed surgery then it's only a two month or so delay patching him up for the RWC and he could have gone for an op after the RWC instead of trying to manage it again to get him back mid season.

Otherwise yeah, I'd have stood him down for the RWC.

I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase.
Repeating the same mistake over and over and expecting a different outcome is.....

[munster#1]

Can't agree at all with your logic.
There are no valid excuses, including the Schmidt was going to bring him anyway.
Trying to justify it and giving coaches a pass for doing
so only encourages repeat offending and condones bad behaviour.
It's not good enough, simply isn't.

Carbery made 5 rushed and risky returns from injury in 12 months. Why do you ignore the other 4 times it happened? He rushed back to start the HC QF, he rushed back again to start the URC semi, he rushed back to Ireland warm ups because there was a Sexton doubt (when he should have been wrapped in cotton wool instead), he rushed back post RWC to try and establish himself ahead of Sexton.

If you took all those risks then why start being conservative at the RWC. Munster played Carbery 8 games in a row leading into the 1st international break, last 6 were starts. They were asking for trouble with a player who was already known to be fragile.

If he needed surgery then it's only a two month or so delay patching him up for the RWC and he could have gone for an op after the RWC instead of trying to manage it again to get him back mid season.

Otherwise yeah, I'd have stood him down for the RWC.

I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase.
Repeating the same mistake over and over and expecting a different outcome is.....

Surely a bit of context could be added to all of this.
What were the injuries, what were the treatments to said injuries and who signed him off to play.

Were each of the injuries directly related?
From memory, I believe that he has had a hamstring injury, then an ankle injury and then wrist problems, now I’m no medical professional, but I doubt an ankle injury would cause a wrist injury and I’m pretty sure that the ankle injury can be directly attributed to some lump of meat landing on him?

[munster#1]

Munster played well Sunday, the lad Gallagher at 15 very good ,the hooker and cloete on the flank were excellent

Looks like snyman has done cruciate again huge blow for him and for munster

Gallagher is a good player, but has been unfortunate with injury and he plays in the same position as Haley who seems ever present.

Barron was the hooker, he looks a good prospect alright, and with Marshall having departed last season we should hopefully see plenty more of him this season.

IMO, and I know it is probably not a popular one, Cloete is the best openside in the country and is a real game changer as he wins so many turnovers and even when he doesn’t win the ball he slows the opposition to a standstill.
Even though he was identified as a threat by Scarletts they were powerless to stop him.

However, and this is crucial and is why he is not an automatic first choice player, he is way too prone to giving away stupid penalties, and will likely collect a couple of cards a season.