Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

[wixfjord]

Some interesting detail from GT in the IT today about the private group of backers supporting Munster.

But being Munster head coach has its difficulties, with all sorts of masters to deal with, be it Nucifora, the Munster CEO, various reiterations of the Munster Professional Game Board and the influential group of private backers known as the 1014 group.

Apparently, the latter went so far as to write to the Munster hierarchy questioning various selection issues, among other critiques, and word is this missive was shown to van Graan, which can only have encouraged him to move on.

Pretty ridiculous and arrogant to think they should have any say in team selection.

[dougie the flanker]

Garry Doyle is a perfect example of the apologist attitude that allows Munster not to make difficult choices to see meaningful improvement.

ROC has a similar piece. Really weird why they’d go to bat for a departing coaching ticket.

Munster are a sacred cow and all that jazz

Even still though. To most Munster fans this feels like it did when Matt O'Connor left. 5 years under Johann van Graan who never once seemed popular and basically made the same errors in 2022 as he was making back in 2017.

It was a very strange article choice. The headline was that History will remember van Graan fondly. This certainly isn't the case.

History remembered Rob Penney fondly as it was clear he was trying to introduce a new way of playing and met resistance from players and fans. van Graan is a different kettle of fish.

I can assure you I won't be lamenting the days when we would do pop passes to static ball carriers before eventually setting up a box kick, get close enough through our limited game plan to avoid a hammering (most of the time) and then sort of shrug and say we don't have any better idea to get ahead of Leinster or Toulouse and that these game plans are good because they work in the rain and cold of winter unlike fast passing etc [ignoring Glasgow and Connacht who do it regularly and both won Pro14s with that style as did Scarlets and Leinster].

[paddyor]

Some interesting detail from GT in the IT today about the private group of backers supporting Munster.

But being Munster head coach has its difficulties, with all sorts of masters to deal with, be it Nucifora, the Munster CEO, various reiterations of the Munster Professional Game Board and the influential group of private backers known as the 1014 group.

Apparently, the latter went so far as to write to the Munster hierarchy questioning various selection issues, among other critiques, and word is this missive was shown to van Graan, which can only have encouraged him to move on.

Pretty ridiculous and arrogant to think they should have any say in team selection.

What's the relevance of 1014? There was youtube rugby channel called 1014 that eventually got signed by Sky Sports gave the reason.

[wixfjord]

Some interesting detail from GT in the IT today about the private group of backers supporting Munster.

But being Munster head coach has its difficulties, with all sorts of masters to deal with, be it Nucifora, the Munster CEO, various reiterations of the Munster Professional Game Board and the influential group of private backers known as the 1014 group.

Apparently, the latter went so far as to write to the Munster hierarchy questioning various selection issues, among other critiques, and word is this missive was shown to van Graan, which can only have encouraged him to move on.

Pretty ridiculous and arrogant to think they should have any say in team selection.

What's the relevance of 1014? There was youtube rugby channel called 1014 that eventually got signed by Sky Sports gave the reason.

Not sure, I made the same connection in my head but don't know if there's a link.

The 1014 rugby channel was led by Len Dineen's son though I believe (based in NZ) so there may be a connection there?

It has never come out who exactly is in this group, which makes it slightly more shady given they're trying to influence selection. I would imagine the likes of JP McManus, Patrick Coveney could be involved.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I always assumed it was to do with the battle of Clontarf and was implying that they’d be top dogs in Ireland.

In general it’s clearly a bad idea to have a private group exerting influence but in fairness to them if you saw what was happening in Munster over the last ten years or so and felt you were in a position to instigate change then I can see why you’d try it.

[riocard911]

I too always understood 1014 as being a reference to the Battle of Clontarf, when Brian Ború's Munstermen reddened Dublin bay with the blood of the Norse and their Leinster allies. Interestingly, the RTÉ/TG4 documentary at the time of the millenium celebrations of this historical event opened with slo-mo footage of Leinster and Munster going hammer and tongs at each other in the Aviva.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I too always understood 1014 as being a reference to the Battle of Clontarf, when Brian Ború's Munstermen reddened Dublin bay with the blood of the Norse and their Leinster allies. Interestingly, the RTÉ/TG4 documentary at the time of the millenium celebrations of this historical event opened with slo-mo footage of Leinster and Munster going hammer and tongs at each other in the Aviva.

Maybe Van Graan used it to influence the tactics for last Friday? Did the Vikings manage to score a sneaky try behind Brian Boru’s back as well?

[paddyor]

Some interesting detail from GT in the IT today about the private group of backers supporting Munster.



Pretty ridiculous and arrogant to think they should have any say in team selection.

What's the relevance of 1014? There was youtube rugby channel called 1014 that eventually got signed by Sky Sports gave the reason.

Not sure, I made the same connection in my head but don't know if there's a link.

The 1014 rugby channel was led by Len Dineen's son though I believe (based in NZ) so there may be a connection there?

It has never come out who exactly is in this group, which makes it slightly more shady given they're trying to influence selection. I would imagine the likes of JP McManus, Patrick Coveney could be involved.

Ah. That seems meaningless in NZ though.

[riocard911]

I too always understood 1014 as being a reference to the Battle of Clontarf, when Brian Ború's Munstermen reddened Dublin bay with the blood of the Norse and their Leinster allies. Interestingly, the RTÉ/TG4 documentary at the time of the millenium celebrations of this historical event opened with slo-mo footage of Leinster and Munster going hammer and tongs at each other in the Aviva.

Maybe Van Graan used it to influence the tactics for last Friday? Did the Vikings manage to score a sneaky try behind Brian Boru’s back as well?

Well they did manage to take the Munstermens' most important figure out, although he wasn't even involved in the action at that point - as he was praying in his tent -, but this one cheap shot did nothing to prevent their total defeat.

Interestingly, the Battle of Clontarf is dealt with in some detail in the Icelandic Edda sagas. There the Valkyries curse the Irish for 800 years for having smathered the followers of Odin.

[blockhead]

Clontarf is on the Northside.
We've only played up there once since 1014
And we smited them!

[hugonaut]

I would think a big part of it is the fact JVG is a nice lad who was always good to the media.

Compare that to the treatment of Schmidt in the media for eg, a man on the polar opposite end of the coaching spectrum to JVG in almost every way, yet who ROC et al went after consistently because he wouldn't play ball with them at all.

There was a specific incident between Schmidt and ROC – I have to say that I don't know the full story, so I'd be basically trying to fill in the blanks if I went any further. But it certainly coloured ROC's coverage of Schmidt. I felt that he was very negative towards him and basically everything was bad if Schmidt did it.

I have no beef in general with ROC, I think he's a good guy but I wouldn't always agree with what he writes. That's normal.

With regards to van Graan, from what I have heard a solid guy, very polite and hardworking, a good employee. He has always been decent to the media and dealt with them professionally, and it doesn't always go that way. Rob Penney was apparently very tetchy at times and obviously Cheika had a well-earned rep for volatility. Both Penney and Cheika are very big dudes in the flesh and could be [intentionally] intimidating. Not just 'this interview isn't going well' intimidating, but 'this guy might rough me up Sid-Justice-style' intimidating.

From my point of view, I think there are so many people pointing the finger at van Graan [particularly online] and blaming him for everything that it is both tempting and reasonable to write an article that balances the criticism.

[FLIP]

I would think a big part of it is the fact JVG is a nice lad who was always good to the media.

Compare that to the treatment of Schmidt in the media for eg, a man on the polar opposite end of the coaching spectrum to JVG in almost every way, yet who ROC et al went after consistently because he wouldn't play ball with them at all.

There was a specific incident between Schmidt and ROC – I have to say that I don't know the full story, so I'd be basically trying to fill in the blanks if I went any further. But it certainly coloured ROC's coverage of Schmidt. I felt that he was very negative towards him and basically everything was bad if Schmidt did it.

I have no beef in general with ROC, I think he's a good guy but I wouldn't always agree with what he writes. That's normal.

With regards to van Graan, from what I have heard a solid guy, very polite and hardworking, a good employee. He has always been decent to the media and dealt with them professionally, and it doesn't always go that way. Rob Penney was apparently very tetchy at times and obviously Cheika had a well-earned rep for volatility. Both Penney and Cheika are very big dudes in the flesh and could be [intentionally] intimidating. Not just 'this interview isn't going well' intimidating, but 'this guy might rough me up Sid-Justice-style' intimidating.

From my point of view, I think there are so many people pointing the finger at van Graan [particularly online] and blaming him for everything that it is both tempting and reasonable to write an article that balances the criticism.

Yeah, but you balance the criticism by talking about the culture and choices made by Munster long term, not by glossing over his failures.

[hugonaut]

Some interesting detail from GT in the IT today about the private group of backers supporting Munster.

But being Munster head coach has its difficulties, with all sorts of masters to deal with, be it Nucifora, the Munster CEO, various reiterations of the Munster Professional Game Board and the influential group of private backers known as the 1014 group.

Apparently, the latter went so far as to write to the Munster hierarchy questioning various selection issues, among other critiques, and word is this missive was shown to van Graan, which can only have encouraged him to move on.

Pretty ridiculous and arrogant to think they should have any say in team selection.

That sort of thing is unfortunately always going to happen with 'high net worth individuals'. I've seen it quite a few times at first hand. Not everyone who has a lot of money thinks that they're always right or that they know best about things they don't have any background in ... but quite a few do!

If you're out soliciting money for players' salaries, you've got to make it plain as CEO that this is what you get in return: X no. of appearances from Player Y at Event Z, Xno. of invitations to this lunch/that dinner, Xno. of invitations to come and watch training etc.

You also have to pretty quickly draw a line with what you don't get, i.e. you don't get a seat on the PGC, you don't get a say in selection. And you have to be able to stand your ground and tell a fella that that's that.

[ronk]

Recruitment and selection aren't really separate.

If the coach goes to some white knights looking for, say, an international tighthead they might well ask questions over player development and selection of Ryan/Archer.

If the coach asks for funding for yet another big lock, the response might be that maybe a hooker would be better. It's their money, they don't want to see it wasted.

A coach might we'll discuss their plans and listen to input when working with such people. This letter could be an attempt to pick the team, in exactly the same way as a top14 owner might. But the wording of the article was vague. It might have been worse, or better or just different.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Some interesting detail from GT in the IT today about the private group of backers supporting Munster.

But being Munster head coach has its difficulties, with all sorts of masters to deal with, be it Nucifora, the Munster CEO, various reiterations of the Munster Professional Game Board and the influential group of private backers known as the 1014 group.

Apparently, the latter went so far as to write to the Munster hierarchy questioning various selection issues, among other critiques, and word is this missive was shown to van Graan, which can only have encouraged him to move on.

Pretty ridiculous and arrogant to think they should have any say in team selection.

Leaving Munster for Bath was a no brainer for him, he’s been found out at Munster and by Jaysis the expectations from Bath must be at an all time low. I can’t think of a better set of stakeholders to accept his reported 80% win rate target…

[blockhead]

Some interesting detail from GT in the IT today about the private group of backers supporting Munster.

But being Munster head coach has its difficulties, with all sorts of masters to deal with, be it Nucifora, the Munster CEO, various reiterations of the Munster Professional Game Board and the influential group of private backers known as the 1014 group.

Apparently, the latter went so far as to write to the Munster hierarchy questioning various selection issues, among other critiques, and word is this missive was shown to van Graan, which can only have encouraged him to move on.

Pretty ridiculous and arrogant to think they should have any say in team selection.

Leaving Munster for Bath was a no brainer for him, he’s been found out at Munster and by Jaysis the expectations from Bath must be at an all time low. I can’t think of a better set of stakeholders to accept his reported 80% win rate target…

A rolling stone gathers no moss

[EarthGorilla]

EDIT: Wrong thread