Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Well there’s also the flip side of Porter being a starter at LH and Sheehan starting at hooker today. We also signed a new TH and have left Dev out for today. We also have a real baller at 12 to try something different with a second playmaker and we’ve moved ROL to the wing.

So we’re trying loads of things to improve on last season and that’s just the first selection.

JVG just isn’t a coach that’s brave enough to make changes or has the ability to be creative. It’s been killing Munster and by the looks of this selection will continue to do so.

[munster#1]

Well there’s also the flip side of Porter being a starter at LH and Sheehan starting at hooker today. We also signed a new TH and have left Dev out for today. We also have a real baller at 12 to try something different with a second playmaker and we’ve moved ROL to the wing.

So we’re trying loads of things to improve on last season and that’s just the first selection.

JVG just isn’t a coach that’s brave enough to make changes or has the ability to be creative. It’s been killing Munster and by the looks of this selection will continue to do so.

IMO the issues around Leinster has never been their ability to play with ball in hand, it has been their inability to play against teams that beat them up.
I don’t think playing Frawley at 12 or ROL on the wing addresses this.

Saying that, I would love Munster to be in Leinster’s position, as Leinster could well avoid a big physical team, as there aren’t too many of them around.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree.
Whilst I don’t think that JVG is perfect, I see that JVG had made great strides in building the Munster squad, he has made some really good signings, has been ruthless in cutting players and has been very proactive in bringing players through from the academy.
None of his actions suggest that he is too conservative or inept when it comes to change.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

You seem to have missed the bit where I mentioned all the changes up front.

[munster#1]

You seem to have missed the bit where I mentioned all the changes up front.

I don’t see how those changes will improve Leinster to the required level of physically.
Leinster have signed a TH that is bench at best if Porter does become 1st choice LH and I don’t think that Porter offers as much around the field as Healy, but may become a better scrummager.

Is Sheehan the answer?

IMO the front row has never been where the improvements were needed (bar maybe lineout throwing) but you watch far more minutes of Leinster games than I do, so if you believe that that is where the issues lay, then I will now down to your superior knowledge.

For me, I would hate to see Leinster developer or sign a really second row enforcer, move Ryan to LH lock and beef Baird up to be a big blindside, as I think Leinster would be almost unbeatable if they did.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

You’re missing the point. It doesn’t matter if it works out or not, it’s the fact that we’re trying things and you aren’t despite clearly needing to. You can’t just do the same thing over and over and expect to improve.

[munster#1]

You’re missing the point. It doesn’t matter if it works out or not, it’s the fact that we’re trying things and you aren’t despite clearly needing to. You can’t just do the same thing over and over and expect to improve.

That makes no sense at all, sure Leinster are trying something in this one game, and who knows, possibly for the remainder of Porter and Healys careers, but what’s the point of it doesn’t address where the issues lie?
Is Porter a better LH than Healy?
Is Healy a better TH prospect that Vakh?

Again, with all this we may have to just agree to disagree.

Munster have not done the same things over and over. They seen that they needed to bulk as they were bullied and went to the market and signed 2 big pieces of meat from SA along with Farrell.

They realised the JJ and Keatley before him weren’t at the required level to be the best so they cut them loose and replaced them with Joey, Healy, Crowley and Flannery.

Each of the 9 players that were promoted from the academy was at the expense of a player that didn’t have a contract renewed. That is a lot of changes in 1 year.

Munster are far from perfect, but they do seem to be addressing issues on and off of the field over the last few years, which may or may not result in silverware, but my hope and I’m sure all involved with MR is that it will.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Well obviously the hope is that those things do improve us. If they don’t, you try something else. What’s for certain is that things that didn’t work in the past won’t be good enough in future so I’m glad we’re trying to change.

Anyway I’m done, the proof will be in the big games when Munster just play the same way as before and come unstuck.

[wixfjord]

Is Porter a better LH than Healy?

This isn't remotely relevant to the decision to move Porter though.

Clearly the answer is currently no.

But the decision is being made based on the fairly good bet that the answer will be 'clearly yes' in two years time. Which has huge upside for club and country. It's trying to solve the problem of needing more physicality, a top class LH to replace Healy and getting a world class prop onto the pitch.

Why is that related to Munster's issues?

Because Munster at prop have asked those types of 'immediate' questions and tended to ignore the longer term perspective.

Is Kenyan Knox or Roman Salanoa better than John Ryan or Stephen Archer now?

Probably not (albeit it's close).

Can they both be far better and transformative to the team in a year or two?

Absolutely.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

One more obvious change I should have mentioned was Kendallen being involved. A star for the 20’s in a position they need someone but he was playing for the development team yesterday, whereas we have Osbourne on the bench. I forgot about him tbh but actually that’s probably the best example because the other positions they need to improve don’t have such obvious candidates to step in.

[Sugary tae]

Greetings shelbyville

Some excellent points in the more recents posts re jvg and some of his selections. I suppose as Munster supporters we have all been a bit burnt calling for coaches heads in the aftermath of axel etc ….that said jvg has done a fairly solid job of moving on deadwood and he gets an awful lot right. However he definitely is conservative and he doesn’t push young guys forward at a pace that’s required. Aligned to a game plan than has t shown much invention leads me to distrAction

I would love to see as many minutes as possible in Crowley kendellan knox jWycherley Ahern and hodnett in particular
Knox and salanoa may not be at Ryan’s or archers level yet but they are the future. (Fwiw neither have shown great robustness tho I the past 18 months …A lot of niggly injuries)

I can totally understand the backrow balance for tonight though. Neither kleyn or Wycherley are good lineout options while Coombes Pom and jod are all excellent. Given the shorks pack selection I’d expect a lot of mauls.

However starting Crowley at 12 still should have been an option. Anyone know how he played in The A game ? Kendellan or JOS should definitely be ahead of cloete ….both cover more positions

This season is very interesting. He’s gutted the mid level of the squad and there is a big space for 9/10 new guys. Rather than dropping them in en bulk I’d imagine it would be better to blend. We’ve lost leaders like Billy Holland so a lot is expected of guys like the scannells archer Ryan kleyn to hold some hands…are they up to it?

[munster#1]

One more obvious change I should have mentioned was Kendallen being involved. A star for the 20’s in a position they need someone but he was playing for the development team yesterday, whereas we have Osbourne on the bench. I forgot about him tbh but actually that’s probably the best example because the other positions they need to improve don’t have such obvious candidates to step in.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on this.
He made his senior debut last season just after his 20th birthday, and featured in the recent preseason matches, so is definitely on the radar.

My hope is that he gets at least 10 senior appearances this season, including a couple of inter pros.
What I am hearing is that he is being managed carefully, as he is still relatively young and lightweight, which is possibly why he is not togging out against a big SA team.

[fourthirtythree]

Zebo to score from 45 metres ftw!

f%~k the haters, more players pushing for Ireland spots is better.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

The more I see Joey the more I worry about his defence. There was one passage of play where he missed three tackles including one where he almost stepped out of the way. Another time he raced up to chase a kick and seemed to step away from the player who caught it and let them waltz past him. All of them were on his right side, not sure if he’s carrying something there. I’m not so worried about his attacking game because I’d expect that to take time but I don’t think Ireland could carry him defensively if that continues.

Thought Casey was excellent, he’s progressing very nicely. Coombes too, amazing how teams know what’s coming and have plenty of numbers to deal with it but can’t manage it. Knox was very good I thought, hopefully this is the season where he kicks on and stays fit.

[Oldschool]

Good start to the season for Munster but their backs aren't at the races.
Zebo - welcome back and I hope hope can make the difference.
Casey - needs to calm down a bit but plenty of potential.
Goggins - Sorry M1 but you need to re-evaluate.
Carberry - Worried - problem is that he doesn't have the players around him to exploit what he can bring to a game and he doesn't have a coach who seems interested in finding out.
Pack - Did very well.
Result - BP what's not to like.

[munster#1]

I am not going to claim that it was a brilliant game, but it was brilliant to finally be back in Thomond Park for a game.

The atmosphere was very good, and you could see that the team seemed to really enjoy have the fans back along with their families who were behind me in the ground.

On the match itself, it was great to see Zebo back scoring tries again. To run in a try from just outside his 22 on his second debut is an unreal way to announce his return.

Coombes again showed what he can do. He has a great engine and is a very intelligent player. He is a complete nuisance at the breakdown and is an unstoppable force from a few metres out which has resulted in him amassing 19 tries already in his fledgling career.
I would be surprised if he is not in contention for a couple of caps during the autumn internationals.

Casey was again a real star. He is a very confident player, and rarely makes a poor decision.
Last night was his 30th appearance and 6th try and he will only get better.

I do think that Munster left a few tries out there and let in a couple of very soft tries.
Against better teams they will be punished for this.
I did defend Goggin before the game and still believe that he is very talented, but he had a poor game offensively yesterday.

Conway looks like a player who needs to find his confidence. He is one of my favourite Munster players and I’d love to see him back to his very best.

The subs added to real impact. RG looked very good when he came on as did Knox.
Barron is someone I want to see a bit more of, he looks like a good prospect.
Osborne didn’t have long to display his wares, but I wasn’t overly impressed by his short cameo, but I will hold judgement for a while yet.

[munster#1]

Good start to the season for Munster but their backs aren't at the races.
Zebo - welcome back and I hope hope can make the difference.
Casey - needs to calm down a bit but plenty of potential.
Goggins - Sorry M1 but you need to re-evaluate.
Carberry - Worried - problem is that he doesn't have the players around him to exploit what he can bring to a game and he doesn't have a coach who seems interested in finding out.
Pack - Did very well.
Result - BP what's not to like.

Which backs would you single out as not being at the races and why?

Unfortunately, as I’ve already stated, that is a game which Goggin would be happy to be able to forget.

For me I can’t think of any other back who had a poor game, in fact, I think each of the other backs had good games.

[dropkick]

Well there’s also the flip side of Porter being a starter at LH and Sheehan starting at hooker today. We also signed a new TH and have left Dev out for today. We also have a real baller at 12 to try something different with a second playmaker and we’ve moved ROL to the wing.

So we’re trying loads of things to improve on last season and that’s just the first selection.

JVG just isn’t a coach that’s brave enough to make changes or has the ability to be creative. It’s been killing Munster and by the looks of this selection will continue to do so.

+1
He came out during the week and mentioned 80% win record or something like that. So that tells you all you need to know about him. He's done the same thing every season. Pick conservative team and conservative tactics all season which are designed to beat the weaker teams consistently but also easy for the big teams to shut down consistently. He is perfectly happy not winning anything.


He is a real numbers man. He mentioned giving players debuts on an interview last year I think. Many of those debutants literally got a few min at the end of a game. Lies, damn lies and statistics. Gavin Coombes played 135 min the season before last!


It will be another 80% season for Munster. The selection was expected and once Murray comes back we will be back to Bok/Schmidtball again. The man rarely gets critcised by anyone compared to all the flak MOC got. I suspect being on first name terms with all the media is a good career move.

[ronk]

The dreaded "papering over the cracks"

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rug ... 06900.html

There were so many dropped balls.

[blockhead]

The dreaded "papering over the cracks"

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rug ... 06900.html

There were so many dropped balls.

I dunno Ronk. They seem to have all their ducks in a row this season.
I think they are the team to beat tbh.
Well, them and Cardiff.

[mildlyinterested]

The dreaded "papering over the cracks"

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rug ... 06900.html

There were so many dropped balls.

I dunno Ronk. They seem to have all their ducks in a row this season.
I think they are the team to beat tbh.
Well, them and Cardiff.

If they have Kleyn, Snyman and Jenkins in their pack along with Beirne & Coombes they could very well put the leinster pack under severe pressure ala La Rochelle and Saracens.