Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Forum for the discussion of other Teams and Clubs as well as General Rugby chat.

Moderator: moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 10996
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by ronk »

Partly privately funded apparently. And there’s no suggestion that the funding was only for him.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6763
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by mildlyinterested »

would Jack Regan not have been worth a look by Munster?

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6763
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by mildlyinterested »

“I was used to playing a certain way and coaching a certain way at Munster and probably where Munster are now, after running through the Pro14 for one season and then coming to the litmus test which is Leinster and they come up short again.

“Munster make the least passes of any team in the Pro14, the least, so you wonder at the end of the season why is it we cannot beat Leinster..."
Jerry Flannery

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6763
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by mildlyinterested »

Munster: Mike Haley; Andrew Conway, Chris Farrell, Damian de Allende, Keith Earls; Joey Carbery, Conor Murray; Dave Kilcoyne, Niall Scannell, Stephen Archer; Jean Kleyn, Tadhg Beirne; Gavin Coombes, Jack O’Donoghue, CJ Stander (c).

Replacements: Kevin O’Byrne, James Cronin, John Ryan, Billy Holland, Fineen Wycherley, Craig Casey, JJ Hanrahan, Chris Cloete.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6763
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by mildlyinterested »

Darren Sweetnam had his first La Rochelle training session Wednesday. He’s a good, educated west Cork man and he had his opening few words in French well prepared for the rest of the squad. Fair to say he brought the house down. If he was nervous, he didn’t show it, but he wasn’t the only one in the room with a few butterflies.

Darren is the first Munster man I’ve signed as a coach. That is a big deal for me too. You’ve only got one real home and we are all proud of where we come from. He’s come over to France to reignite his career and I’m the one who’s brought him here. I guess those things strike a little closer to the heart when he’s one of your own. It was a proud moment. Whenever I look back, he’ll be the first player I’ve signed from Munster.

The practicalities of the move were thus: He has potential and a career to build. From our standpoint, it’s initially a three-month deal. We needed a problem fixed, and fast. I could have gone anywhere in the world but someone from New Zealand, South Africa or Australia introduces quarantine issues. And then how long does a visa take?

One of the big positives of Darren was he was ready to go. He had to leave Ireland with a negative PCR test and then when he arrived here, he had to get tested straight away.

I know his standard. He hasn’t shot the lights out at Munster, with injury and a loss of form hampering momentum and confidence. But if you play for Ireland under Joe Schmidt, you have to have a lot of quality.

My role is to get his belief back and I’m pretty confident I can do that. Whether that’s good enough to displace a starter in our best team I don’t know, but I want that problem because I don’t have it at the minute.

He is ineligible for Europe but will play in the Top 14. Darren is big and rangy and needs games. Every coach looks at a player differently and the objective here for La Rochelle is not to prove Munster should or shouldn’t have kept him, but to ensure we have a tough decision to make on his future come season’s end.

Some coaches go through hoops trying to prove other coaches wrong. That’s a dangerous card to be playing.

Sometimes it is what it is. We let one lad go because we thought his attitude was well off. Then he went to another Top 14 club and now he’s off to a third, so sometimes the conclusions are universal. I know enough about Sweetnam’s background to bring him in. What happens in the summer is largely down to him.

JJ Hanrahan has secured a one-year deal at Clermont. Initially, he will be playing second fiddle to Camille Lopez and depending on how he does in that regard, there’s a second year on the table. That won’t be easy.

He is battling the age-old tradition of trying to usurp an incumbent who’s been there a long time. Strictly on ability, it’s an even call between JJ and Lopez but as an outsider can he take the jersey off someone who is practically a club legend? That’s the challenge, but realistically the door was closed for him at Munster.

They are keeping Joey Carbery on the big contract and have two pretenders on smaller contracts. He wasn’t in Munster’s plans so to get a club like Clermont is really big, because it’s harder to get into France now than it ever was.

It turns up the heat nicely in Munster, and that’s never a bad thing.

Now they will give Jack Crowley his head, and he will relish being thrown straight into the firing line. It’s time to be ambitious. You want Jack playing for Ireland, so put him out there and see what he is like. You have to set him up to succeed — and provide good feedback.

People who are quite measured were aghast at what they saw from the province last Saturday in the PRO14 final and were left wondering what is going on at Munster. Leinster have moved into the patronising phase.

As an ex-player, you’d be worried about the club now, and whether they are losing their identity. What do Munster stand for now? It is at the stage where they need to draw a clear line in the sand and decide what they want to do.

And how they are going to do it.

And with who they are going to do it.

They need to formulate a plan that feeds into what Munster is about and then shut up and do their talking when they’ve achieved something. Because at the RDS they didn’t deliver on any of what they talked about last week.

The irony is that Paulie is now coaching the Irish forwards when the club is crying out for someone like him. And of course, I hear the voices saying, ‘if Rog is so bothered, why isn’t he back here doing something about it?’ To which one might reply that I’m on my own career path and I don’t have any role in solving Munster’s problems.

Indeed, I may never have.

Tomorrow’s round of 16 Champions Cup tie with Toulouse is even more awkward for the fact that Ugo Mola’s men lost an important Top 14 game at home to struggling Montpellier last weekend. That’s sport. They obviously didn’t respect the game and got caught.

But good sides rarely lose two weeks in a row. Munster might refer to that, but in this context I’m referring to the French side. Munster hasn’t won a trophy for a decade. There’s one Irish powerhouse that players over here speak of and it’s not Munster. That hurts.

Toulouse have lost Rynhardt Elstadt for Thomond Park due to Covid regulations. He’s a good player, but there’s plenty more at Toulouse ready to step up.

The thirteen, Sofiane Guitoune, is a miss though after doing his cruciate, as he forms a really effective midfield with Pita Ahki, who is also doubtful. Everyone knows about Cheslin Kolbe but Dupont and Ntamack are the hub of the operation, and though they were average at best against Scotland, they are real competitors.

All the things that Munster are looking for should be in evidence this evening as Leinster set up against Toulon in Dublin. They will be too smart for the visitors, too well organised, and have too great a trust base between the players. They are years further into the cycle than Toulon, who have good individuals, but rely heavily on Baptiste Serin.

La Rochelle, meanwhile, are prepping for tonight’s meeting with Gloucester at Kingsholm. We’d lost two in a row before last weekend’s win away to Bordeaux Begles. But can we back it up? It’s all in the top two inches now, that’s what the next three months is about.

This club is in its infancy in terms of European history, so a last 16 fixture should be a massive deal for all of us. There’s no tomorrow in terms of the Champions Cup. Leinster may be able to periodise, but this is exciting, uncharted territory for us.

We had some great days at Kingsholm, it’s a cracking rugby town. A dozen or so years ago, Munster were there for a big Heineken Cup quarter-final and Marcus Horan suffered a back spasm in the warm-up, with Mushy Buckley coming in to start. That meant Freddie Pucciariello was added to the bench, but no-one could find Freddie.

Eventually he was tracked down around the back of the stadium at a hamburger stall, pouring into a quarter-pounder.

He came on before half-time and had a stormer. Now that’s Munster.

We won 16-3.
ROG speaks

User avatar
fourthirtythree
Rob Kearney
Posts: 9620
Joined: April 12th, 2008, 11:33 pm
Location: Eight miles high

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by fourthirtythree »

I remember that Pauncherello incident.

Said variations of this before but Larkham was right that Munster lost belief last week. They looked like us against Saracens or Ireland against England when we flattered both sides by failing at our jobs. They were much closer last two times but their attack was, never, looking like scoring. I'm biased about De Allende as I've mostly watched him playing Leinster and a couple of other matches where he was defensively all over the place but he looked like a proper waste of money.
Datta: what have we given?
My friend, blood shaking my heart
The awful daring of a moment's surrender
Which an age of prudence can never retract
What the thunder said to Brian Lenihan

User avatar
munster#1
Shane Horgan
Posts: 4663
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 3:47 pm

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

MUNSTER: M Haley; A Conway, C Farrell, D de Allende, K Earls; J Carbery, C Murray; D Kilcoyne, N Scannell, S Archer; J Kleyn, T Beirne; G Coombes, J O’Donoghue, CJ Stander - captain.

Replacements: K O’Byrne, J Cronin, J Ryan, B Holland, F Wycherley, C Casey, JJ Hanrahan, C Cloete.

User avatar
Barry
Knowledgeable
Posts: 349
Joined: February 20th, 2009, 4:16 pm
Location: Dunsany

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Barry »

munster#1 wrote:MUNSTER: M Haley; A Conway, C Farrell, D de Allende, K Earls; J Carbery, C Murray; D Kilcoyne, N Scannell, S Archer; J Kleyn, T Beirne; G Coombes, J O’Donoghue, CJ Stander - captain.

Replacements: K O’Byrne, J Cronin, J Ryan, B Holland, F Wycherley, C Casey, JJ Hanrahan, C Cloete.
Another adventurous selection from Van Groan.

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk


User avatar
munster#1
Shane Horgan
Posts: 4663
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 3:47 pm

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

Barry wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 12:17 pm
munster#1 wrote:MUNSTER: M Haley; A Conway, C Farrell, D de Allende, K Earls; J Carbery, C Murray; D Kilcoyne, N Scannell, S Archer; J Kleyn, T Beirne; G Coombes, J O’Donoghue, CJ Stander - captain.

Replacements: K O’Byrne, J Cronin, J Ryan, B Holland, F Wycherley, C Casey, JJ Hanrahan, C Cloete.
Another adventurous selection from Van Groan.

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
True.

The safer option would have been to bring in JJ instead of Joey who looked out of sorts last week, and to bring in Cloete to start at 7, instead of bringing in JOD who is a 6/8.

Archer instead of Ryan is another interesting selection, as Ryan is arguably the better scrummager.

Additionally the 6/2 split is another risk, that a more conservative coach wouldn’t make.

I personally agree with Leinster’s more conservative selection, especially given the gravity of this game

User avatar
fourthirtythree
Rob Kearney
Posts: 9620
Joined: April 12th, 2008, 11:33 pm
Location: Eight miles high

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by fourthirtythree »

Ryan's form is so bad that it's a toss up between him and Archer. Frankly Archer probably better but is good for a yellow card a game if the ref has eyes well away from the play which he can't keep up with.
Datta: what have we given?
My friend, blood shaking my heart
The awful daring of a moment's surrender
Which an age of prudence can never retract
What the thunder said to Brian Lenihan

Keith
Mullet
Posts: 1216
Joined: November 8th, 2012, 8:29 pm
Contact:

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Keith »

It's scary how badly Munster need front rows., they're in a bit of a crisis. I'm sure there's a lot of hope for Knox but the fact he can't get near Ryan or Archer even now is worrying. Unfortunately for Munster there aren't loads of lads coming through at Leinster for them to poach.

User avatar
Oldschoolsocks
Rhys Ruddock
Posts: 2656
Joined: January 4th, 2015, 10:36 am
Location: Stepping out of the Supernova

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Keith wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 2:08 pm
It's scary how badly Munster need front rows., they're in a bit of a crisis. I'm sure there's a lot of hope for Knox but the fact he can't get near Ryan or Archer even now is worrying. Unfortunately for Munster there aren't loads of lads coming through at Leinster for them to poach.
It’s just a symptom of JVGD letting the fruit wither on the vine, he hasn’t got the courage to allow players to develop...

User avatar
blockhead
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6405
Joined: December 14th, 2011, 1:20 pm
Location: Up Your Stairs!

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by blockhead »

Dupont, Ntamack and Kolbe is a scary thought.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!

User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 10996
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by ronk »

blockhead wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 2:21 pm
Dupont, Ntamack and Kolbe is a scary thought.
Yeah, Clermont did loads of damage when they got quick ball. Could be a long day if Toulouse blow them off the park in the first 20 and then hold themselves together.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6763
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by mildlyinterested »

Keith wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 2:08 pm
It's scary how badly Munster need front rows., they're in a bit of a crisis. I'm sure there's a lot of hope for Knox but the fact he can't get near Ryan or Archer even now is worrying. Unfortunately for Munster there aren't loads of lads coming through at Leinster for them to poach.
Munster's have been unable to develop a top quality homegrown TH prop for over a decade.. they are currently relying on a saffa poach and Salanoa.. no sign of a top tier tighthead coming through the academy and Ryan/Archers level has been known for years.

loosehead isn't much better.

Keith
Mullet
Posts: 1216
Joined: November 8th, 2012, 8:29 pm
Contact:

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Keith »

mildlyinterested wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 2:27 pm
Keith wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 2:08 pm
It's scary how badly Munster need front rows., they're in a bit of a crisis. I'm sure there's a lot of hope for Knox but the fact he can't get near Ryan or Archer even now is worrying. Unfortunately for Munster there aren't loads of lads coming through at Leinster for them to poach.
Munster's have been unable to develop a top quality homegrown TH prop for over a decade.. they are currently relying on a saffa poach and Salanoa.. no sign of a top tier tighthead coming through the academy and Ryan/Archers level has been known for years.

loosehead isn't much better.
Neither is hooker with Scannells form fallen off a cliff, worrying times for them. I can just see them signing Greg McGrath for some reason.

User avatar
Oldschoolsocks
Rhys Ruddock
Posts: 2656
Joined: January 4th, 2015, 10:36 am
Location: Stepping out of the Supernova

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

mildlyinterested wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 2:27 pm
Keith wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 2:08 pm
It's scary how badly Munster need front rows., they're in a bit of a crisis. I'm sure there's a lot of hope for Knox but the fact he can't get near Ryan or Archer even now is worrying. Unfortunately for Munster there aren't loads of lads coming through at Leinster for them to poach.
Munster's have been unable to develop a top quality homegrown TH prop for over a decade.. they are currently relying on a saffa poach and Salanoa.. no sign of a top tier tighthead coming through the academy and Ryan/Archers level has been known for years.

loosehead isn't much better.
Have they ever produced a high quality TH prop though?

Hayes was not a good scrummager by any stretch of the imagination, he was amazing at line out time and could just about survive at scrum time, Tony Buckley wasn’t great either and Mike Ross developed in England.

User avatar
Morf
Rhys Ruddock
Posts: 2405
Joined: April 26th, 2011, 2:20 am

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Morf »

neiliog93 wrote:
April 1st, 2021, 3:31 pm
If I were a Munster fan, I'd be disgusted that the IRFU blocked the du Toit signing. He's arguably the best player in the world and would add hugely to any team. Total lunacy to block the signing (especially when it's being funded by private money), and then allow the Jenkins one, a journeyman by comparison. In recent years, the IRFU have indulged Munster in too many foreign signings, including the various medical jokers, but du Toit was surely a no-brainer to permit when it was being privately funded.
Nucifora knows exactly how many staff are losing jobs in provinces/IRFU because of COVID. He's not having signed off on PSDT held against him on his watch compared to that. Doesn't matter who pays for it.

User avatar
neiliog93
Shane Horgan
Posts: 4041
Joined: April 12th, 2008, 11:42 am

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by neiliog93 »

Morf wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 5:51 pm
neiliog93 wrote:
April 1st, 2021, 3:31 pm
If I were a Munster fan, I'd be disgusted that the IRFU blocked the du Toit signing. He's arguably the best player in the world and would add hugely to any team. Total lunacy to block the signing (especially when it's being funded by private money), and then allow the Jenkins one, a journeyman by comparison. In recent years, the IRFU have indulged Munster in too many foreign signings, including the various medical jokers, but du Toit was surely a no-brainer to permit when it was being privately funded.
Nucifora knows exactly how many staff are losing jobs in provinces/IRFU because of COVID. He's not having signed off on PSDT held against him on his watch compared to that. Doesn't matter who pays for it.
Yeah, but that's just so stupid. People get sacked in a pandemic-caused downturn, and then a private investor offers to fund the world's best player going to an Irish province. If you're one of the people sacked or another employee, I just don't understand how it would annoy you if the signing wasn't funded by the IRFU. More of the usual nonsense, hyper-cautious, lack of vision leadership from Irish authorities.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

User avatar
Dave Cahill
Devin Toner
Posts: 23039
Joined: January 24th, 2006, 3:32 pm
Location: None of your damn business
Contact:

Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Dave Cahill »

neiliog93 wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 5:54 pm

Yeah, but that's just so stupid. People get sacked in a pandemic-caused downturn, and then a private investor offers to fund the world's best player going to an Irish province. If you're one of the people sacked or another employee, I just don't understand how it would annoy you if the signing wasn't funded by the IRFU. More of the usual nonsense, hyper-cautious, lack of vision leadership from Irish authorities.
The IRFU decides how money is spent in Irish Rugby, not some external person. If this 'investor' cared so much about Munster, they'd use the money to keep Munster's people on staff. But in reality, they couldn't give a f%~k about Munster.
I have Bumbleflex

Post Reply