Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

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munster#1
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

wixfjord wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:35 pm
Laighin Break wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:13 pm
The arguments being made here - Spending money / Other players in his position must be pissed (which I'm sure is the case with just about every single signing) / he's in his 30s / it's against "developing a squad" - could all have been made when Leinster re-signed Sexton
What about the argument that he's a good signing but the money probably could've been invested with more impact elsewhere?

I think that's the key point out of all of this.

Like clearly signing an IQ 31 year old outside back with the record of Zebo at a reduced rate is a good signing in isolation.

But in full context, it looks more opportunistic than strategic.
That same argument could be made for many players who have been offered a contract this season.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by wixfjord »

munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:52 pm
wixfjord wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:35 pm
Laighin Break wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:13 pm
The arguments being made here - Spending money / Other players in his position must be pissed (which I'm sure is the case with just about every single signing) / he's in his 30s / it's against "developing a squad" - could all have been made when Leinster re-signed Sexton
What about the argument that he's a good signing but the money probably could've been invested with more impact elsewhere?

I think that's the key point out of all of this.

Like clearly signing an IQ 31 year old outside back with the record of Zebo at a reduced rate is a good signing in isolation.

But in full context, it looks more opportunistic than strategic.
That same argument could be made for many players who have been offered a contract this season.
Maybe so.

I'm talking in the context of Munster's recruitment and signing a third IQ fullback in 3/4 years instead of for example a 7 or a hooker, areas that they're clearly weaker in.

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munster#1
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

wixfjord wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:51 pm
Laighin Break wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:39 pm
wixfjord wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:35 pm


What about the argument that he's a good signing but the money probably could've been invested with more impact elsewhere?

I think that's the key point out of all of this.

Like clearly signing an IQ 31 year old outside back with the record of Zebo at a reduced rate is a good signing in isolation.

But in full context, it looks more opportunistic than strategic.
Do we have the full context of the signing? Was his salary announced?
Worth also adding that Zebo likely was (and is) a very popular figure within the Munster camp so I'd say a lot of the players are very happy and excited about him returning. A lot more than when Munster signed Haley or Gallagher.
Do salaries ever get announced?!

I'm talking about in context of Munster having a presumably finite budget and needing to apportion that in the right way.

Is another fullback the right investment of that money? I'm not sure.
Well clearly Munster didn’t have the budget to offer Zebo a contract, but the IRFU seen fit to fund this move as they must have some vested interest in it.

Is another fullback a definitive requirement? The answer is probably no, but you are getting caught up on the number on Zebo’s back.
He has probably played more time on the wing than he has at fullback for Munster and Ireland, making Zebo a versatile option.

The real question is will Zebo improve the Munster team, and for me, and many others the answer is an unquestionable yes.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

wixfjord wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:58 pm
munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:52 pm
wixfjord wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:35 pm


What about the argument that he's a good signing but the money probably could've been invested with more impact elsewhere?

I think that's the key point out of all of this.

Like clearly signing an IQ 31 year old outside back with the record of Zebo at a reduced rate is a good signing in isolation.

But in full context, it looks more opportunistic than strategic.
That same argument could be made for many players who have been offered a contract this season.
Maybe so.

I'm talking in the context of Munster's recruitment and signing a third IQ fullback in 3/4 years instead of for example a 7 or a hooker, areas that they're clearly weaker in.
Like others you are viewing this as a signing of a fullback, Zebo like Gallagher, is a back 3 player.
Haley is a fullback.

This is definitely an opportunistic signing, not one that Munster seem to have sought, and one that Munster would have been foolish to turn down.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by SoupyNorman »

Keith wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:51 pm
In what world is Toner a squad player? He only started a HC QF last weekend.. Or have I read wrong here?
In fairness; Leinster top second-row James Ryan was out injured for that game; so in such cases it wouldn't be unexpected that someone who may be viewed as a squad player would have to step up into his place.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Laighin Break »

wixfjord wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:51 pm
Laighin Break wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:39 pm
wixfjord wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:35 pm


What about the argument that he's a good signing but the money probably could've been invested with more impact elsewhere?

I think that's the key point out of all of this.

Like clearly signing an IQ 31 year old outside back with the record of Zebo at a reduced rate is a good signing in isolation.

But in full context, it looks more opportunistic than strategic.
Do we have the full context of the signing? Was his salary announced?
Worth also adding that Zebo likely was (and is) a very popular figure within the Munster camp so I'd say a lot of the players are very happy and excited about him returning. A lot more than when Munster signed Haley or Gallagher.
Do salaries ever get announced?!

I'm talking about in context of Munster having a presumably finite budget and needing to apportion that in the right way.

Is another fullback the right investment of that money? I'm not sure.
From my recollection of his Munster and Ireland days, I would consider Zebo more of a winger that can also play fullback

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the spoofer
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by the spoofer »

wixfjord wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:51 pm
Laighin Break wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:39 pm
wixfjord wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:35 pm


What about the argument that he's a good signing but the money probably could've been invested with more impact elsewhere?

I think that's the key point out of all of this.

Like clearly signing an IQ 31 year old outside back with the record of Zebo at a reduced rate is a good signing in isolation.

But in full context, it looks more opportunistic than strategic.
Do we have the full context of the signing? Was his salary announced?
Worth also adding that Zebo likely was (and is) a very popular figure within the Munster camp so I'd say a lot of the players are very happy and excited about him returning. A lot more than when Munster signed Haley or Gallagher.
Do salaries ever get announced?!

I'm talking about in context of Munster having a presumably finite budget and needing to apportion that in the right way.

Is another fullback the right investment of that money? I'm not sure.
Why is the IRFU subsidising this signing?

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Dave Cahill »

Because he'll put bums on seats
I have Bumbleflex

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by the spoofer »

Dave Cahill wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 3:27 pm
Because he'll put bums on seats
I'll wait and see. Limerick Hurling will influence that.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Dave Cahill »

the spoofer wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 3:29 pm
Dave Cahill wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 3:27 pm
Because he'll put bums on seats
I'll wait and see. Limerick Hurling will influence that.
Indeed, lots will. But he is a marquee name down there. If I were in Marketing - which, oh, I am! - I'd consider this an excellent opportunity. He will be able to galvanise the base in a way that a foreign signing wouldn't. Purely from an identity POV, its a tough time for Munster currently - he can paper over those cracks for a few more years
I have Bumbleflex

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munster#1
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

the spoofer wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 3:21 pm
wixfjord wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:51 pm
Laighin Break wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:39 pm


Do we have the full context of the signing? Was his salary announced?
Worth also adding that Zebo likely was (and is) a very popular figure within the Munster camp so I'd say a lot of the players are very happy and excited about him returning. A lot more than when Munster signed Haley or Gallagher.
Do salaries ever get announced?!

I'm talking about in context of Munster having a presumably finite budget and needing to apportion that in the right way.

Is another fullback the right investment of that money? I'm not sure.
Why is the IRFU subsidising this signing?
Most likely because they want him available to play for Ireland, and Munster couldn’t afford his wages.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by blockhead »

Dave Cahill wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 3:27 pm
Because he'll put bums on seats
And that's it init!
The revolting peasants will be quieter now, next season they will bring home the bacon.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by wixfjord »

munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 3:05 pm


This is definitely an opportunistic signing, not one that Munster seem to have sought, and one that Munster would have been foolish to turn down.

Yes I know. In fact I've said the same thing multiple times above.

My point is the money could've been better used elsewhere.

While a good player clearly improves the squad, do Munster need another good player in that position?

Or could they have used the money more wisely and strategically to recruit elsewhere.

My opinion is the latter.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Keith »

SoupyNorman wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 3:08 pm
Keith wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:51 pm
In what world is Toner a squad player? He only started a HC QF last weekend.. Or have I read wrong here?
In fairness; Leinster top second-row James Ryan was out injured for that game; so in such cases it wouldn't be unexpected that someone who may be viewed as a squad player would have to step up into his place.
Then it could have been Ryan and Toner starting... At the very least Dev would have been still in the 23.

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munster#1
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

wixfjord wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 4:01 pm
munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 3:05 pm


This is definitely an opportunistic signing, not one that Munster seem to have sought, and one that Munster would have been foolish to turn down.

Yes I know. In fact I've said the same thing multiple times above.

My point is the money could've been better used elsewhere.

While a good player clearly improves the squad, do Munster need another good player in that position?

Or could they have used the money more wisely and strategically to recruit elsewhere.

My opinion is the latter.
I think your question is an over simplification of what has happened here.

Yes I would rather have seen Munster sign Du Toit as they had planned, or a big dynamic hooker, but they were not options.

Munster do not have the budget to sign a player of the required standard in those positions, otherwise the IRFU would not be assisting with this signing.

In terms of value for money, this is a brilliant signing for Munster.
They have signed Zebo, and it is probably costing Munster less than it would have to retain Sweetnam.
From a Munster perspective this is money well spent IMO, they are getting a top class player at a reported bargain price, and they are only paying a portion of that cost.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by ronk »

munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 6:33 pm
wixfjord wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 4:01 pm
munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 3:05 pm


This is definitely an opportunistic signing, not one that Munster seem to have sought, and one that Munster would have been foolish to turn down.

Yes I know. In fact I've said the same thing multiple times above.

My point is the money could've been better used elsewhere.

While a good player clearly improves the squad, do Munster need another good player in that position?

Or could they have used the money more wisely and strategically to recruit elsewhere.

My opinion is the latter.
I think your question is an over simplification of what has happened here.

Yes I would rather have seen Munster sign Du Toit as they had planned, or a big dynamic hooker, but they were not options.

Munster do not have the budget to sign a player of the required standard in those positions, otherwise the IRFU would not be assisting with this signing.

In terms of value for money, this is a brilliant signing for Munster.
They have signed Zebo, and it is probably costing Munster less than it would have to retain Sweetnam.
From a Munster perspective this is money well spent IMO, they are getting a top class player at a reported bargain price, and they are only paying a portion of that cost.
You're making up the bargain price thing. Munster needed help to sign him. I'd take that as the IRFU made up the difference and that he's up near the top of the provincial scale. Even at that he's only coming back because his stock has dropped.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by hugonaut »

Zebo is a good player and Munster fans love him. Was fullback a big position of need for them? No it wasn't. They'll wind up with a bit of wastage in the back three, but to be honest they had that once they signed Gallagher.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by the spoofer »

hugonaut wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 8:57 pm
Zebo is a good player and Munster fans love him. Was fullback a big position of need for them? No it wasn't. They'll wind up with a bit of wastage in the back three, but to be honest they had that once they signed Gallagher.
I wonder “what’s the story” with Shane Daly. He was a serious upwards trajectory.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

the spoofer wrote:
April 16th, 2021, 8:33 am
hugonaut wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 8:57 pm
Zebo is a good player and Munster fans love him. Was fullback a big position of need for them? No it wasn't. They'll wind up with a bit of wastage in the back three, but to be honest they had that once they signed Gallagher.
I wonder “what’s the story” with Shane Daly. He was a serious upwards trajectory.
He spent the best part of the season holding tackle bags in the Irish camp.
It would have been far better if he was left in the Munster camp to play games.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by mildlyinterested »

munster#1 wrote:
April 16th, 2021, 9:15 am
the spoofer wrote:
April 16th, 2021, 8:33 am
hugonaut wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 8:57 pm
Zebo is a good player and Munster fans love him. Was fullback a big position of need for them? No it wasn't. They'll wind up with a bit of wastage in the back three, but to be honest they had that once they signed Gallagher.
I wonder “what’s the story” with Shane Daly. He was a serious upwards trajectory.
He spent the best part of the season holding tackle bags in the Irish camp.
It would have been far better if he was left in the Munster camp to play games.
didnt seem to hurt some other irish players.

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