Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

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wixfjord
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by wixfjord »

munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 9:24 am
the spoofer wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 8:55 am
Anyone else pissed off that this is co funded by IRFU? They laid off 20 people but have cash for a luxury dubious conditioned winger?
Why are you pissed off?
The IRFU would be foolish not to want a player of Zebo’s talent available, even if we were not fast approaching a World Cup where our only established first choice winger may not be around come 2023.

Whether you like Zebo as a person or not, his ability and talent as a player is undoubtable.

Edit: To me this is not a luxury signing, and I do feel for the people who have lost their jobs.
It's the definition of a luxury signing.

Munster will now have three senior fullbacks that they've spent on in recent years, at least two of whom won't be in Ireland squads.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have signed him, they're right to jump at the opportunity when he became available imo. Both that and the idea of him being a luxury can be true at the same time.

But there are greater needs in the squad elsewhere.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by sunshiner1 »

by mildlyinterested

I'm sure Dan Sheehan will be approached over the summer.
I'm sure he already has
by munster#1
The IRFU would be foolish not to want a player of Zebo’s talent available, even if we were not fast approaching a World Cup where our only established first choice winger may not be around come 2023.

Whether you like Zebo as a person or not, his ability and talent as a player is undoubtable.
I don't doubt his talent or ability for a moment and I am happy he will be coming back but it strikes me again as a plaster put over a gaping wound. I think it's short term thinking that is hurting Munster Rugby. There doesn't seem to be any plan in place to develop a squad. If I was Daly or Gallagher I would be p****ed right now.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by the spoofer »

munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 9:24 am
the spoofer wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 8:55 am
Anyone else pissed off that this is co funded by IRFU? They laid off 20 people but have cash for a luxury dubious conditioned winger?
Why are you pissed off?
The IRFU would be foolish not to want a player of Zebo’s talent available, even if we were not fast approaching a World Cup where our only established first choice winger may not be around come 2023.

Whether you like Zebo as a person or not, his ability and talent as a player is undoubtable.

Edit: To me this is not a luxury signing, and I do feel for the people who have lost their jobs.
His abilities as a team player are indeed doubtable. I couldn't care less what a person is like off the field although it helps if they are not a dick. Zebo is to back three play what Finn Russell is to 10. He is about himself rather than doing what is needed to win games. Both were perfectly suited to RM.

I've seen many comments on his performance in the final of the HC last year. He did play well but two things aren't mentioned. RM lost and Zebo had an absolute mare in the semi final.

As for playing for Ireland. We have eventually found a replacement at 15 for Ireland in the Girve type Hugo Keenan. I would absolutely hate to see us replace his solidity at 15 with the "X factor" of Zebo.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

sunshiner1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 9:51 am
by mildlyinterested

I'm sure Dan Sheehan will be approached over the summer.
I'm sure he already has
by munster#1
The IRFU would be foolish not to want a player of Zebo’s talent available, even if we were not fast approaching a World Cup where our only established first choice winger may not be around come 2023.

Whether you like Zebo as a person or not, his ability and talent as a player is undoubtable.
I don't doubt his talent or ability for a moment and I am happy he will be coming back but it strikes me again as a plaster put over a gaping wound. I think it's short term thinking that is hurting Munster Rugby. There doesn't seem to be any plan in place to develop a squad. If I was Daly or Gallagher I would be p****ed right now.
Surely signing the likes of Irish Qualified players like Gallagher and re-signing Zebo would be evidence of developing a squad, couple that with the emergence of Daly, Nash, Coombes etc. Munster for me are developing a squad by both signing and developing homegrown quality players.

Sport is short term, if you are constantly looking down the road, then you will win nothing today (cue the idiots who pipe up and say that Munster should have won loads by now so) the re-signing of Zebo is much the same as when JS came back, or with McCarty coming back next season.
They were/are to improve the squad right away, not down the line.

I do agree that the short termism has to be supplemented by looking further down the line, and the signing of Costello along with the high standard of the current crop coming out of the academy is testament to the fact that Munster are improving in that department.

I do agree that the likes of Daly will be pissed off by this, and I do feel for them, but sport has little room for feelings, this is no different to the players behind Sexton, McCarty, Henshaw, Lowe, JPG and so on.

Munster need an extra inch, and while the signing of Zebo is not the full answer, he does improve the Munster squad

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

the spoofer wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 9:53 am
munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 9:24 am
the spoofer wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 8:55 am
Anyone else pissed off that this is co funded by IRFU? They laid off 20 people but have cash for a luxury dubious conditioned winger?
Why are you pissed off?
The IRFU would be foolish not to want a player of Zebo’s talent available, even if we were not fast approaching a World Cup where our only established first choice winger may not be around come 2023.

Whether you like Zebo as a person or not, his ability and talent as a player is undoubtable.

Edit: To me this is not a luxury signing, and I do feel for the people who have lost their jobs.
His abilities as a team player are indeed doubtable. I couldn't care less what a person is like off the field although it helps if they are not a dick. Zebo is to back three play what Finn Russell is to 10. He is about himself rather than doing what is needed to win games. Both were perfectly suited to RM.

I've seen many comments on his performance in the final of the HC last year. He did play well but two things aren't mentioned. RM lost and Zebo had an absolute mare in the semi final.

As for playing for Ireland. We have eventually found a replacement at 15 for Ireland in the Girve type Hugo Keenan. I would absolutely hate to see us replace his solidity at 15 with the "X factor" of Zebo.
He is a man with remarkable ability, and has scored some outrageous tries, but I have never seen him act as someone who you would consider not to be a team player.
In fact, for me one of his strong points would be his link play with his team mates.
For example at Munster it was like he and Murray had telepathic abilities, as the seemed to link up so well.

I would agree with you on Keenan, I think Zebo should push him for the 15 shirt, but ultimately I would like to see Keenan remain at 15, with Zebo on the wing.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Ruckedtobits »

munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 8:34 am
Ruckedtobits wrote:
April 14th, 2021, 4:47 pm
ronk wrote:
April 14th, 2021, 2:27 pm
Good player,but a step backwards for a "developing" squad. That's now big acquisitions of Haley, Gallagher and now Zebo in consecutive years.

Still picking players because they're available and a good deal (IRFU help) rather than because they are building a balanced or sustainable squad. And the IRFU helping them to dig a hole, again.

Munster are moving on Wootton (Pro14 dream team) and Sweetman (immediately picked up by La Rochelle), so there's a direct impact in terms of medium term squad: Munster will need to sign a replacement for Zebo eventually because they've burned the next generation.
+1. Totally agree. Good marketing; crazy rugby management.
Please explain how the re-signing of one of the best Munster products, who is one of the top try scorers in the HC, which is the highest level he can play for Munster, along with being the top try scorer for Munster despite his 3 year absence, could be viewed as crazy rugby management.

IMO Zebo walks straight into the Munster starting team either on the wing or fullback, and could remain as first choice for the next 3 seasons.
Neither Wooton or Seeetnam fit into that category.
Add to that the fact that the IRFU are part funding the signing. To me that is great rugby management.
He's the third full back signed by Munster in successive seasons.

His preferred alternate position is occupied by the current Irish left winger, playing as well as ever.

Munster have dispensed with two much younger, high quality, developing wingers, claiming in one instance that financial pressure was one of the factors.

He is 31, not reknowned for his fitness and approaching the years when acceleration not strength is a winger's saviour.

He has been playing outside some of the most innovative attacking backs in France for three Seasons. He will find Munster, current, tactics very difficult.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 12:09 pm
munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 8:34 am
Ruckedtobits wrote:
April 14th, 2021, 4:47 pm


+1. Totally agree. Good marketing; crazy rugby management.
Please explain how the re-signing of one of the best Munster products, who is one of the top try scorers in the HC, which is the highest level he can play for Munster, along with being the top try scorer for Munster despite his 3 year absence, could be viewed as crazy rugby management.

IMO Zebo walks straight into the Munster starting team either on the wing or fullback, and could remain as first choice for the next 3 seasons.
Neither Wooton or Seeetnam fit into that category.
Add to that the fact that the IRFU are part funding the signing. To me that is great rugby management.
He's the third full back signed by Munster in successive seasons.

His preferred alternate position is occupied by the current Irish left winger, playing as well as ever.

Munster have dispensed with two much younger, high quality, developing wingers, claiming in one instance that financial pressure was one of the factors.

He is 31, not reknowned for his fitness and approaching the years when acceleration not strength is a winger's saviour.

He has been playing outside some of the most innovative attacking backs in France for three Seasons. He will find Munster, current, tactics very difficult.
To be pedantic, I don’t think it is successive seasons?

Where he plays is yet to be seen, I can see him slipping on to the left wing, as I think that Earls and Haley should retain their positions, but who knows.
Likewise with Ireland, he is a quality player, and will add depth across the back 3.

I do believe that he will come back and will be a success at Munster, and will add to his try tally in both competitions that Munster play in, if you don’t, then that is fine, but I can’t see any reasonable reason why anyone would think that Zebo being back in the fold is not a positive.

The 2 players that were released by Munster are both top lads, and very talented players. But for me, they are not in Zebo’s league.

I appreciate that Leinster have made the right decisions in releasing the Likes of Toner, Cronin and Fardy, and are only replacing Bent from outside, showing faith in youth, and that makes the signing of Earls seem counterproductive in comparison, but Munster do not yet have the same quality as Leinster.
But even Leinster need to bring a journey man such as McCarty back in, whilst also having JGP on their books.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Peg Leg »

munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 12:33 pm
To be pedantic, I don’t think it is successive seasons?

Where he plays is yet to be seen, I can see him slipping on to the right wing, as I think that Earls and Haley should retain their positions, but who knows.
Likewise with Ireland, he is a quality player, and will add depth across the back 3.

I do believe that he will come back and will be a success at Munster, and will add to his try tally in both competitions that Munster play in, if you don’t, then that is fine, but I can’t see any reasonable reason why anyone would think that Zebo being back in the fold is not a positive.

The 2 players that were released by Munster are both top lads, and very talented players. But for me, they are not in Zebo’s league.

I appreciate that Leinster have made the right decisions in releasing the Likes of Toner, Cronin and Fardy, and are only replacing Bent from outside, showing faith in youth, and that makes the signing of Earls seem counterproductive in comparison, but Munster do not yet have the same quality as Leinster.
But even Leinster need to bring in a journey man such as McCarty back in, whilst ASL having JGP on their books.
Man you're good! :clap:
Zebo said mean things about Leinster so he, to quote Rodney Dangerfield, get's no respect.
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

Peg Leg wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 12:48 pm
munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 12:33 pm
To be pedantic, I don’t think it is successive seasons?

Where he plays is yet to be seen, I can see him slipping on to the right wing, as I think that Earls and Haley should retain their positions, but who knows.
Likewise with Ireland, he is a quality player, and will add depth across the back 3.

I do believe that he will come back and will be a success at Munster, and will add to his try tally in both competitions that Munster play in, if you don’t, then that is fine, but I can’t see any reasonable reason why anyone would think that Zebo being back in the fold is not a positive.

The 2 players that were released by Munster are both top lads, and very talented players. But for me, they are not in Zebo’s league.

I appreciate that Leinster have made the right decisions in releasing the Likes of Toner, Cronin and Fardy, and are only replacing Bent from outside, showing faith in youth, and that makes the signing of Earls seem counterproductive in comparison, but Munster do not yet have the same quality as Leinster.
But even Leinster need to bring in a journey man such as McCarty back in, whilst ASL having JGP on their books.
Man you're good! :clap:
Zebo said mean things about Leinster so he, to quote Rodney Dangerfield, get's no respect.
Care to explain the clapping?

I don’t expect Leinster fans to like Zebo as a person, but I would expect rugby fans to see this for what it is, it is a great signing for a team in need of additional quality.

Edit: just seen that Munster’s Cronin has re-signed for Leinster. Are you saying that Toner has too?

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by heno »

This makes sense given Munsters policy of signing big names from abroad. When you can find an irish qualified one, all the better.

How much sense it makes depends on the price. If he is the 3rd or 4th best paid in the squad then I think its a waste of resources. But if he was finding it difficult to find an interested top club maybe his price was ok.

Also consider the name factor. Leinster can sell tickets and jerseys at the moment on foot of winning things. We don't need big names in that regard. Without that (at the moment) Munster need something to keep the crowd interested and Zebo has a big enough name to achieve that.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Peg Leg »

munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 12:52 pm


Care to explain the clapping?

Edit: just seen that Munster’s Cronin has re-signed for Leinster. Are you saying that Toner has too?
It appears that he will be signing for another year alright.
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

Peg Leg wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 1:40 pm
munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 12:52 pm


Care to explain the clapping?

Edit: just seen that Munster’s Cronin has re-signed for Leinster. Are you saying that Toner has too?
It appears that he will be signing for another year alright.
They are 2 very strange signings if true. They will both be 36 at the end of their current contracts, and are more likely to decline further rather than improve over the course of these contracts. as much as I like both players, both would be considered little more than squad players at this stage.

Suddenly the signing of a part funded 31 year old Munster product seems to be an unbelievably good signing.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Laighin Break »

The arguments being made here - Spending money / Other players in his position must be pissed (which I'm sure is the case with just about every single signing) / he's in his 30s / it's against "developing a squad" - could all have been made when Leinster re-signed Sexton

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Blue not red blood »

love the second last line about Zebo and Murray linking up well :lol: :lol: :lol:
munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 10:41 am
the spoofer wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 9:53 am
munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 9:24 am


Why are you pissed off?
The IRFU would be foolish not to want a player of Zebo’s talent available, even if we were not fast approaching a World Cup where our only established first choice winger may not be around come 2023.

Whether you like Zebo as a person or not, his ability and talent as a player is undoubtable.

Edit: To me this is not a luxury signing, and I do feel for the people who have lost their jobs.
His abilities as a team player are indeed doubtable. I couldn't care less what a person is like off the field although it helps if they are not a dick. Zebo is to back three play what Finn Russell is to 10. He is about himself rather than doing what is needed to win games. Both were perfectly suited to RM.

I've seen many comments on his performance in the final of the HC last year. He did play well but two things aren't mentioned. RM lost and Zebo had an absolute mare in the semi final.

As for playing for Ireland. We have eventually found a replacement at 15 for Ireland in the Girve type Hugo Keenan. I would absolutely hate to see us replace his solidity at 15 with the "X factor" of Zebo.
He is a man with remarkable ability, and has scored some outrageous tries, but I have never seen him act as someone who you would consider not to be a team player.
In fact, for me one of his strong points would be his link play with his team mates.
For example at Munster it was like he and Murray had telepathic abilities, as the seemed to link up so well.

I would agree with you on Keenan, I think Zebo should push him for the 15 shirt, but ultimately I would like to see Keenan remain at 15, with Zebo on the wing.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

Laighin Break wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:13 pm
The arguments being made here - Spending money / Other players in his position must be pissed (which I'm sure is the case with just about every single signing) / he's in his 30s / it's against "developing a squad" - could all have been made when Leinster re-signed Sexton
That’s just it. And strangely enough, Leinster are doing the very same with the signing of McCarty

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

Blue not red blood wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:20 pm
love the second last line about Zebo and Murray linking up well :lol: :lol: :lol:
munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 10:41 am
the spoofer wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 9:53 am


His abilities as a team player are indeed doubtable. I couldn't care less what a person is like off the field although it helps if they are not a dick. Zebo is to back three play what Finn Russell is to 10. He is about himself rather than doing what is needed to win games. Both were perfectly suited to RM.

I've seen many comments on his performance in the final of the HC last year. He did play well but two things aren't mentioned. RM lost and Zebo had an absolute mare in the semi final.

As for playing for Ireland. We have eventually found a replacement at 15 for Ireland in the Girve type Hugo Keenan. I would absolutely hate to see us replace his solidity at 15 with the "X factor" of Zebo.
He is a man with remarkable ability, and has scored some outrageous tries, but I have never seen him act as someone who you would consider not to be a team player.
In fact, for me one of his strong points would be his link play with his team mates.
For example at Munster it was like he and Murray had telepathic abilities, as the seemed to link up so well.

I would agree with you on Keenan, I think Zebo should push him for the 15 shirt, but ultimately I would like to see Keenan remain at 15, with Zebo on the wing.
I left myself wide open for that one 😂

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by wixfjord »

Laighin Break wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:13 pm
The arguments being made here - Spending money / Other players in his position must be pissed (which I'm sure is the case with just about every single signing) / he's in his 30s / it's against "developing a squad" - could all have been made when Leinster re-signed Sexton
What about the argument that he's a good signing but the money probably could've been invested with more impact elsewhere?

I think that's the key point out of all of this.

Like clearly signing an IQ 31 year old outside back with the record of Zebo at a reduced rate is a good signing in isolation.

But in full context, it looks more opportunistic than strategic.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Laighin Break »

wixfjord wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:35 pm
Laighin Break wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:13 pm
The arguments being made here - Spending money / Other players in his position must be pissed (which I'm sure is the case with just about every single signing) / he's in his 30s / it's against "developing a squad" - could all have been made when Leinster re-signed Sexton
What about the argument that he's a good signing but the money probably could've been invested with more impact elsewhere?

I think that's the key point out of all of this.

Like clearly signing an IQ 31 year old outside back with the record of Zebo at a reduced rate is a good signing in isolation.

But in full context, it looks more opportunistic than strategic.
Do we have the full context of the signing? Was his salary announced?
Worth also adding that Zebo likely was (and is) a very popular figure within the Munster camp so I'd say a lot of the players are very happy and excited about him returning. A lot more than when Munster signed Haley or Gallagher.

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Keith »

munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:06 pm
Peg Leg wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 1:40 pm
munster#1 wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 12:52 pm


Care to explain the clapping?

Edit: just seen that Munster’s Cronin has re-signed for Leinster. Are you saying that Toner has too?
It appears that he will be signing for another year alright.
They are 2 very strange signings if true. They will both be 36 at the end of their current contracts, and are more likely to decline further rather than improve over the course of these contracts. as much as I like both players, both would be considered little more than squad players at this stage.

Suddenly the signing of a part funded 31 year old Munster product seems to be an unbelievably good signing.
In what world is Toner a squad player? He only started a HC QF last weekend.. Or have I read wrong here?

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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by wixfjord »

Laighin Break wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:39 pm
wixfjord wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:35 pm
Laighin Break wrote:
April 15th, 2021, 2:13 pm
The arguments being made here - Spending money / Other players in his position must be pissed (which I'm sure is the case with just about every single signing) / he's in his 30s / it's against "developing a squad" - could all have been made when Leinster re-signed Sexton
What about the argument that he's a good signing but the money probably could've been invested with more impact elsewhere?

I think that's the key point out of all of this.

Like clearly signing an IQ 31 year old outside back with the record of Zebo at a reduced rate is a good signing in isolation.

But in full context, it looks more opportunistic than strategic.
Do we have the full context of the signing? Was his salary announced?
Worth also adding that Zebo likely was (and is) a very popular figure within the Munster camp so I'd say a lot of the players are very happy and excited about him returning. A lot more than when Munster signed Haley or Gallagher.
Do salaries ever get announced?!

I'm talking about in context of Munster having a presumably finite budget and needing to apportion that in the right way.

Is another fullback the right investment of that money? I'm not sure.

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