Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

[ronk]

And what are these proper pathways then? What do suggest be changed for Limerick alone that wont affect the other areas of the province?

Local rugby politics.

Clubs are there, schools are there. Even with do nothing they should be doing better.

So someone or ones are active or passives breaking development there.

[hugonaut]

And what are these proper pathways then? What do suggest be changed for Limerick alone that wont affect the other areas of the province?

I would be interested to hear your take on it, Ormond Lad.

I read somewhere that there is a specific Limerick City RDO, while there isn't an equivalent position in Cork or Waterford. That suggests to me that somebody/a number of people inside the Munster Branch are trying to address the issue.

[dropkick]

What would you suggest he do/think he should be doing in Limerick to change things?

It sounds like not much has been done. They need to organise proper pathways for players to come through. Hurling did it in limerick.

And what are these proper pathways then? What do suggest be changed for Limerick alone that wont affect the other areas of the province?

I don't know what's going on there but as the saying goes, you will know them by their fruits. Its fair to say the production line in limerick has been an epic failure.

[ormond lad]

And what are these proper pathways then? What do suggest be changed for Limerick alone that wont affect the other areas of the province?

I would be interested to hear your take on it, Ormond Lad.

I read somewhere that there is a specific Limerick City RDO, while there isn't an equivalent position in Cork or Waterford. That suggests to me that somebody/a number of people inside the Munster Branch are trying to address the issue.

I dont know complete ins/outs anymore as not directly involved in coaching as much. Limerick used to get funding for development officers to work with the regeneration areas and that possibly is why Limerick has a specific officer and Cork/Waterford dont. Could be tied to that

[ormond lad]

It sounds like not much has been done. They need to organise proper pathways for players to come through. Hurling did it in limerick.

And what are these proper pathways then? What do suggest be changed for Limerick alone that wont affect the other areas of the province?

I don't know what's going on there but as the saying goes, you will know them by their fruits. Its fair to say the production line in limerick has been an epic failure.

So you cant offer any suggestions for improvements then. Very easy to just say theyre not doing enough work/doing right things to develop more players but cant offer anything as to what should change.

[ronk]

So you cant offer any suggestions for improvements then. Very easy to just say theyre not doing enough work/doing right things to develop more players but cant offer anything as to what should change.

Of course. Without inside knowledge it's a black box. You can know it's not working if you know what the inputs are and you know that the outputs aren't right.

You can't say what's wrong inside the box, but that doesn't mean you arent right.

[Oldschoolsocks]

So you cant offer any suggestions for improvements then. Very easy to just say theyre not doing enough work/doing right things to develop more players but cant offer anything as to what should change.

Of course. Without inside knowledge it's a black box. You can know it's not working if you know what the inputs are and you know that the outputs aren't right.

You can't say what's wrong inside the box, but that doesn't mean you arent right.

This plus 5.

Ormond, in your opinion what is Limerick doing right in bringing players into the academy?

[dropkick]

And what are these proper pathways then? What do suggest be changed for Limerick alone that wont affect the other areas of the province?

I don't know what's going on there but as the saying goes, you will know them by their fruits. Its fair to say the production line in limerick has been an epic failure.

So you cant offer any suggestions for improvements then. Very easy to just say theyre not doing enough work/doing right things to develop more players but cant offer anything as to what should change.

I've told you before that I can't make any suggestions if I don't have any data on what's happening. Munster have all that, they know what leinster, Ulster, Connacht and other countries are doing. There's obviously incompetence somewhere.

[ormond lad]

I would be interested to hear your take on it, Ormond Lad.

I read somewhere that there is a specific Limerick City RDO, while there isn't an equivalent position in Cork or Waterford. That suggests to me that somebody/a number of people inside the Munster Branch are trying to address the issue.

There isnt a specific RDO in Waterford because there isnt the player numbers there for one to be needed to work in Waterford Alone. There is excellent work going on in Waterpark and Waterford City clubs but there is still only 2 other rugby clubs in the county beyond them in Dungarvan and Tramore.
Limerick has a development officer who works primarily with the regeneration areas and there is government funding linked with that but there is simply 4 coach and player development officers covering the entire province and an additional 3 rugby development officers. Thats the main reason there is an RDO listed as working specifically with Limerick.

I don't know what's going on there but as the saying goes, you will know them by their fruits. Its fair to say the production line in limerick has been an epic failure.

A complete non answer and avoids what ive asked...as usual with you on this issue.
Limericks production line has always been heavily influenced by players coming from elsewhere anyway. Up to 90s and early 00s there wasnt any senior clubs beyond the cities so best players moved young to the city clubs to play top level and they dont need/have to do it as much and

This plus 5.

Ormond, in your opinion what is Limerick doing right in bringing players into the academy?

These are Munster issues but are helping Limerick. Changed schools competition formats. been stricter on schools panels and getting kids playing if theyre not in the main schools squad of 25/26 and getting them playing in clubs. the coaches are getting more assistance in coaching courses

I've told you before that I can't make any suggestions if I don't have any data on what's happening. Munster have all that, they know what leinster, Ulster, Connacht and other countries are doing. There's obviously incompetence somewhere.

Thats a complete cop out. You make comments on players coming through (or a lack of) and have done so for years yet cant offer even one suggestion of what different could be done to get more players through to play at the higher levels.
Oh theres obviously incompetence somewhere... what a useless answer and actually says nothing. incompetence where and how would or should it be solved?

[Oldschoolsocks]

I would be interested to hear your take on it, Ormond Lad.

I read somewhere that there is a specific Limerick City RDO, while there isn't an equivalent position in Cork or Waterford. That suggests to me that somebody/a number of people inside the Munster Branch are trying to address the issue.

There isnt a specific RDO in Waterford because there isnt the player numbers there for one to be needed to work in Waterford Alone. There is excellent work going on in Waterpark and Waterford City clubs but there is still only 2 other rugby clubs in the county beyond them in Dungarvan and Tramore.
Limerick has a development officer who works primarily with the regeneration areas and there is government funding linked with that but there is simply 4 coach and player development officers covering the entire province and an additional 3 rugby development officers. Thats the main reason there is an RDO listed as working specifically with Limerick.

I don't know what's going on there but as the saying goes, you will know them by their fruits. Its fair to say the production line in limerick has been an epic failure.

A complete non answer and avoids what ive asked...as usual with you on this issue.
Limericks production line has always been heavily influenced by players coming from elsewhere anyway. Up to 90s and early 00s there wasnt any senior clubs beyond the cities so best players moved young to the city clubs to play top level and they dont need/have to do it as much and

This plus 5.

Ormond, in your opinion what is Limerick doing right in bringing players into the academy?

These are Munster issues but are helping Limerick. Changed schools competition formats. been stricter on schools panels and getting kids playing if theyre not in the main schools squad of 25/26 and getting them playing in clubs. the coaches are getting more assistance in coaching courses

I've told you before that I can't make any suggestions if I don't have any data on what's happening. Munster have all that, they know what leinster, Ulster, Connacht and other countries are doing. There's obviously incompetence somewhere.

Thats a complete cop out. You make comments on players coming through (or a lack of) and have done so for years yet cant offer even one suggestion of what different could be done to get more players through to play at the higher levels.
Oh theres obviously incompetence somewhere... what a useless answer and actually says nothing. incompetence where and how would or should it be solved?

Tbh, I think your response is a cop out.

It’s obvious it’s not working, the evidence is plain to see.

I don’t know what’s wrong or how to fix it, doesn’t mean there’s no improvements to be made…

[ormond lad]

I would be interested to hear your take on it, Ormond Lad.

I read somewhere that there is a specific Limerick City RDO, while there isn't an equivalent position in Cork or Waterford. That suggests to me that somebody/a number of people inside the Munster Branch are trying to address the issue.

There isnt a specific RDO in Waterford because there isnt the player numbers there for one to be needed to work in Waterford Alone. There is excellent work going on in Waterpark and Waterford City clubs but there is still only 2 other rugby clubs in the county beyond them in Dungarvan and Tramore.
Limerick has a development officer who works primarily with the regeneration areas and there is government funding linked with that but there is simply 4 coach and player development officers covering the entire province and an additional 3 rugby development officers. Thats the main reason there is an RDO listed as working specifically with Limerick.

I don't know what's going on there but as the saying goes, you will know them by their fruits. Its fair to say the production line in limerick has been an epic failure.

A complete non answer and avoids what ive asked...as usual with you on this issue.
Limericks production line has always been heavily influenced by players coming from elsewhere anyway. Up to 90s and early 00s there wasnt any senior clubs beyond the cities so best players moved young to the city clubs to play top level and they dont need/have to do it as much and

This plus 5.

Ormond, in your opinion what is Limerick doing right in bringing players into the academy?

These are Munster issues but are helping Limerick. Changed schools competition formats. been stricter on schools panels and getting kids playing if theyre not in the main schools squad of 25/26 and getting them playing in clubs. the coaches are getting more assistance in coaching courses

I've told you before that I can't make any suggestions if I don't have any data on what's happening. Munster have all that, they know what leinster, Ulster, Connacht and other countries are doing. There's obviously incompetence somewhere.

Thats a complete cop out. You make comments on players coming through (or a lack of) and have done so for years yet cant offer even one suggestion of what different could be done to get more players through to play at the higher levels.
Oh theres obviously incompetence somewhere... what a useless answer and actually says nothing. incompetence where and how would or should it be solved?

Tbh, I think your response is a cop out.

It’s obvious it’s not working, the evidence is plain to see.

I don’t know what’s wrong or how to fix it, doesn’t mean there’s no improvements to be made…

There has been substantial changes to the whole underage system in Munster and its been on going for near a decade with the most substantial changes only happening within the last 3/4 years. This will take time to show at professional level.
I dont see how what ive said is a cop out.
The process at developing players is working in Munster slowly. Its far better than what it was and is getting better. The people in charge of the academy and the development office so person over all the development officers going into schools, clubs have changed in recent years and changes have been made but will take time for these changes to have a real effect...

[Oldschoolsocks]

In other news, chip shops down south in fo a bumper year

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/spor ... um=twitter

[dropkick]

I would be interested to hear your take on it, Ormond Lad.

I read somewhere that there is a specific Limerick City RDO, while there isn't an equivalent position in Cork or Waterford. That suggests to me that somebody/a number of people inside the Munster Branch are trying to address the issue.

There isnt a specific RDO in Waterford because there isnt the player numbers there for one to be needed to work in Waterford Alone. There is excellent work going on in Waterpark and Waterford City clubs but there is still only 2 other rugby clubs in the county beyond them in Dungarvan and Tramore.
Limerick has a development officer who works primarily with the regeneration areas and there is government funding linked with that but there is simply 4 coach and player development officers covering the entire province and an additional 3 rugby development officers. Thats the main reason there is an RDO listed as working specifically with Limerick.

I don't know what's going on there but as the saying goes, you will know them by their fruits. Its fair to say the production line in limerick has been an epic failure.

A complete non answer and avoids what ive asked...as usual with you on this issue.
Limericks production line has always been heavily influenced by players coming from elsewhere anyway. Up to 90s and early 00s there wasnt any senior clubs beyond the cities so best players moved young to the city clubs to play top level and they dont need/have to do it as much and

This plus 5.

Ormond, in your opinion what is Limerick doing right in bringing players into the academy?

These are Munster issues but are helping Limerick. Changed schools competition formats. been stricter on schools panels and getting kids playing if theyre not in the main schools squad of 25/26 and getting them playing in clubs. the coaches are getting more assistance in coaching courses

I've told you before that I can't make any suggestions if I don't have any data on what's happening. Munster have all that, they know what leinster, Ulster, Connacht and other countries are doing. There's obviously incompetence somewhere.

Thats a complete cop out. You make comments on players coming through (or a lack of) and have done so for years yet cant offer even one suggestion of what different could be done to get more players through to play at the higher levels.
Oh theres obviously incompetence somewhere... what a useless answer and actually says nothing. incompetence where and how would or should it be solved?

There's no cop out. If a car isn't working then you are allowed to say its not working without knowing how the internal combustion engine works.


There's a whole underage system in place. The U20s is the pinnacle of underage rugby. By looking at the numbers and comparing them to other provinces, we can hop into a time machine and see how the system has been doing the previous 4 or 5 years and the talent coming through to the senior squad in the next 2 or 3 years. There were more Connacht players than Munster players this year. I counted 1 Limerick player in the top 40 U20 players.


You're very sensitive to any criticism towards munster underage and think those outside the know should not have an opinion. No need to shoot the messenger. I've also said things have improved in other areas like West Cork. I'll continue to have my say if I feel like it.

[ormond lad]

I would be interested to hear your take on it, Ormond Lad.

I read somewhere that there is a specific Limerick City RDO, while there isn't an equivalent position in Cork or Waterford. That suggests to me that somebody/a number of people inside the Munster Branch are trying to address the issue.

There isnt a specific RDO in Waterford because there isnt the player numbers there for one to be needed to work in Waterford Alone. There is excellent work going on in Waterpark and Waterford City clubs but there is still only 2 other rugby clubs in the county beyond them in Dungarvan and Tramore.
Limerick has a development officer who works primarily with the regeneration areas and there is government funding linked with that but there is simply 4 coach and player development officers covering the entire province and an additional 3 rugby development officers. Thats the main reason there is an RDO listed as working specifically with Limerick.

I don't know what's going on there but as the saying goes, you will know them by their fruits. Its fair to say the production line in limerick has been an epic failure.

A complete non answer and avoids what ive asked...as usual with you on this issue.
Limericks production line has always been heavily influenced by players coming from elsewhere anyway. Up to 90s and early 00s there wasnt any senior clubs beyond the cities so best players moved young to the city clubs to play top level and they dont need/have to do it as much and

This plus 5.

Ormond, in your opinion what is Limerick doing right in bringing players into the academy?

These are Munster issues but are helping Limerick. Changed schools competition formats. been stricter on schools panels and getting kids playing if theyre not in the main schools squad of 25/26 and getting them playing in clubs. the coaches are getting more assistance in coaching courses

I've told you before that I can't make any suggestions if I don't have any data on what's happening. Munster have all that, they know what leinster, Ulster, Connacht and other countries are doing. There's obviously incompetence somewhere.

Thats a complete cop out. You make comments on players coming through (or a lack of) and have done so for years yet cant offer even one suggestion of what different could be done to get more players through to play at the higher levels.
Oh theres obviously incompetence somewhere... what a useless answer and actually says nothing. incompetence where and how would or should it be solved?

There's no cop out. If a car isn't working then you are allowed to say its not working without knowing how the internal combustion engine works.


There's a whole underage system in place. The U20s is the pinnacle of underage rugby. By looking at the numbers and comparing them to other provinces, we can hop into a time machine and see how the system has been doing the previous 4 or 5 years and the talent coming through to the senior squad in the next 2 or 3 years. There were more Connacht players than Munster players this year. I counted 1 Limerick player in the top 40 U20 players.


You're very sensitive to any criticism towards munster underage and think those outside the know should not have an opinion. No need to shoot the messenger. I've also said things have improved in other areas like West Cork. I'll continue to have my say if I feel like it.

Im not sensitive at all. Munster have improved in recent years. This year was a poor year and Connacht did have more this year but theres no shame in that as that Connacht year group were/are a very impressive group. Were very strong at 18s and continued through to under 20s
You still havent said how you would improve things. you keep saying Munster arent doing enough right but cant say how you would change what theyre doing.
You keep going on saying the poor numbers coming through from Limerick but how do you think that should change? What would you change to get more players coming through from other areas in the province. would you change competition formats, combine clubs at certain age groups.

[Oldschoolsocks]

There isnt a specific RDO in Waterford because there isnt the player numbers there for one to be needed to work in Waterford Alone. There is excellent work going on in Waterpark and Waterford City clubs but there is still only 2 other rugby clubs in the county beyond them in Dungarvan and Tramore.
Limerick has a development officer who works primarily with the regeneration areas and there is government funding linked with that but there is simply 4 coach and player development officers covering the entire province and an additional 3 rugby development officers. Thats the main reason there is an RDO listed as working specifically with Limerick.


A complete non answer and avoids what ive asked...as usual with you on this issue.
Limericks production line has always been heavily influenced by players coming from elsewhere anyway. Up to 90s and early 00s there wasnt any senior clubs beyond the cities so best players moved young to the city clubs to play top level and they dont need/have to do it as much and


These are Munster issues but are helping Limerick. Changed schools competition formats. been stricter on schools panels and getting kids playing if theyre not in the main schools squad of 25/26 and getting them playing in clubs. the coaches are getting more assistance in coaching courses


Thats a complete cop out. You make comments on players coming through (or a lack of) and have done so for years yet cant offer even one suggestion of what different could be done to get more players through to play at the higher levels.
Oh theres obviously incompetence somewhere... what a useless answer and actually says nothing. incompetence where and how would or should it be solved?

There's no cop out. If a car isn't working then you are allowed to say its not working without knowing how the internal combustion engine works.


There's a whole underage system in place. The U20s is the pinnacle of underage rugby. By looking at the numbers and comparing them to other provinces, we can hop into a time machine and see how the system has been doing the previous 4 or 5 years and the talent coming through to the senior squad in the next 2 or 3 years. There were more Connacht players than Munster players this year. I counted 1 Limerick player in the top 40 U20 players.


You're very sensitive to any criticism towards munster underage and think those outside the know should not have an opinion. No need to shoot the messenger. I've also said things have improved in other areas like West Cork. I'll continue to have my say if I feel like it.

Im not sensitive at all. Munster have improved in recent years. This year was a poor year and Connacht did have more this year but theres no shame in that as that Connacht year group were/are a very impressive group. Were very strong at 18s and continued through to under 20s
You still havent said how you would improve things. you keep saying Munster arent doing enough right but cant say how you would change what theyre doing.
You keep going on saying the poor numbers coming through from Limerick but how do you think that should change? What would you change to get more players coming through from other areas in the province. would you change competition formats, combine clubs at certain age groups.

Well as everybody on here knows if the dorsal flow is offline you should completely resynchronize the thera-magnetic gamma-wave autosequencers.

[dropkick]

There isnt a specific RDO in Waterford because there isnt the player numbers there for one to be needed to work in Waterford Alone. There is excellent work going on in Waterpark and Waterford City clubs but there is still only 2 other rugby clubs in the county beyond them in Dungarvan and Tramore.
Limerick has a development officer who works primarily with the regeneration areas and there is government funding linked with that but there is simply 4 coach and player development officers covering the entire province and an additional 3 rugby development officers. Thats the main reason there is an RDO listed as working specifically with Limerick.


A complete non answer and avoids what ive asked...as usual with you on this issue.
Limericks production line has always been heavily influenced by players coming from elsewhere anyway. Up to 90s and early 00s there wasnt any senior clubs beyond the cities so best players moved young to the city clubs to play top level and they dont need/have to do it as much and


These are Munster issues but are helping Limerick. Changed schools competition formats. been stricter on schools panels and getting kids playing if theyre not in the main schools squad of 25/26 and getting them playing in clubs. the coaches are getting more assistance in coaching courses


Thats a complete cop out. You make comments on players coming through (or a lack of) and have done so for years yet cant offer even one suggestion of what different could be done to get more players through to play at the higher levels.
Oh theres obviously incompetence somewhere... what a useless answer and actually says nothing. incompetence where and how would or should it be solved?

There's no cop out. If a car isn't working then you are allowed to say its not working without knowing how the internal combustion engine works.


There's a whole underage system in place. The U20s is the pinnacle of underage rugby. By looking at the numbers and comparing them to other provinces, we can hop into a time machine and see how the system has been doing the previous 4 or 5 years and the talent coming through to the senior squad in the next 2 or 3 years. There were more Connacht players than Munster players this year. I counted 1 Limerick player in the top 40 U20 players.


You're very sensitive to any criticism towards munster underage and think those outside the know should not have an opinion. No need to shoot the messenger. I've also said things have improved in other areas like West Cork. I'll continue to have my say if I feel like it.

Im not sensitive at all. Munster have improved in recent years. This year was a poor year and Connacht did have more this year but theres no shame in that as that Connacht year group were/are a very impressive group. Were very strong at 18s and continued through to under 20s
You still havent said how you would improve things. you keep saying Munster arent doing enough right but cant say how you would change what theyre doing.
You keep going on saying the poor numbers coming through from Limerick but how do you think that should change? What would you change to get more players coming through from other areas in the province. would you change competition formats, combine clubs at certain age groups.

No point making suggestions unless I have a fairly complete picture of whats going on.

[ormond lad]

There's no cop out. If a car isn't working then you are allowed to say its not working without knowing how the internal combustion engine works.


There's a whole underage system in place. The U20s is the pinnacle of underage rugby. By looking at the numbers and comparing them to other provinces, we can hop into a time machine and see how the system has been doing the previous 4 or 5 years and the talent coming through to the senior squad in the next 2 or 3 years. There were more Connacht players than Munster players this year. I counted 1 Limerick player in the top 40 U20 players.


You're very sensitive to any criticism towards munster underage and think those outside the know should not have an opinion. No need to shoot the messenger. I've also said things have improved in other areas like West Cork. I'll continue to have my say if I feel like it.

Im not sensitive at all. Munster have improved in recent years. This year was a poor year and Connacht did have more this year but theres no shame in that as that Connacht year group were/are a very impressive group. Were very strong at 18s and continued through to under 20s
You still havent said how you would improve things. you keep saying Munster arent doing enough right but cant say how you would change what theyre doing.
You keep going on saying the poor numbers coming through from Limerick but how do you think that should change? What would you change to get more players coming through from other areas in the province. would you change competition formats, combine clubs at certain age groups.

No point making suggestions unless I have a fairly complete picture of whats going on.

You wont ever get a fairly complete picture of whats going on unless/until you get involved directly in the game and are you going to do that? Im sure your local club(which is??) would love someone to help out who clearly has an enthusiasm for seeing the youths game improve in quality etc
so would you do that?
And if not going to get involved then why not offer an opinion on what you would do regardless. it would be interesting to hear?

[ronk]

This has gone a bit circular.

It's not fair for people not involved or fully familiar with the circumstances or criticise the volunteers working hard for the game, and a Leinster fan who wanted to get involved would still hardly be a position to be involved in Limerick.

By the same token there are good schools and clubs in Limerick and they should be producing more players even if there was no additional development effort. I hope they have turned the corner and can go back to underpinning a rugby powerhouse. I'm skeptical though because usually there's an early success that opens the floodgates in the time frame we're talking about.

[dropkick]

Im not sensitive at all. Munster have improved in recent years. This year was a poor year and Connacht did have more this year but theres no shame in that as that Connacht year group were/are a very impressive group. Were very strong at 18s and continued through to under 20s
You still havent said how you would improve things. you keep saying Munster arent doing enough right but cant say how you would change what theyre doing.
You keep going on saying the poor numbers coming through from Limerick but how do you think that should change? What would you change to get more players coming through from other areas in the province. would you change competition formats, combine clubs at certain age groups.

No point making suggestions unless I have a fairly complete picture of whats going on.

You wont ever get a fairly complete picture of whats going on unless/until you get involved directly in the game and are you going to do that? Im sure your local club(which is??) would love someone to help out who clearly has an enthusiasm for seeing the youths game improve in quality etc
so would you do that?
And if not going to get involved then why not offer an opinion on what you would do regardless. it would be interesting to hear?

I'm not involved at a club because I don't have time. I didn't have time to watch the Lions match the other day. Just saw a few minutes of it.


If I was running things I'd put more money into it rather than have the big bloated squad munster currently have. They have players they don't need while those resources could be used to put into underage development.

[dropkick]

This has gone a bit circular.

It's not fair for people not involved or fully familiar with the circumstances or criticise the volunteers working hard for the game, and a Leinster fan who wanted to get involved would still hardly be a position to be involved in Limerick.

By the same token there are good schools and clubs in Limerick and they should be producing more players even if there was no additional development effort. I hope they have turned the corner and can go back to underpinning a rugby powerhouse. I'm skeptical though because usually there's an early success that opens the floodgates in the time frame we're talking about.

My criticism has always been towards those at the top. And yes it's a circular argument in the sense I don't know the specifics of what they're doing so I can't make any suggestions but I can see the results.