Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

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hugonaut
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by hugonaut »

Laighin Break wrote: May 20th, 2021, 11:29 am And Donal Lenihan saying that at 30 "his best three or four years are ahead of him" is being a bit optimistic!
People having been writing Healy off since he turned 30 (admittedly he has had a much heavier career).
I think that's legitimate enough. You can definitely have very good years at 30-33. Kilcoyne played the best rugby of his career in 2018-20 at that sort of age; on the other end of the positional scale, Dave Kearney's has played some of his best ever stuff at the same age as a wing.

I think Cronin is quite a loss for Munster. He's been in the matchday squad at loosehead, either starting or coming off the bench, for eight seasons. Loosehead is probably the most rotated position on the team, you always need at least two good options. There's a lot of wear and tear.

He's also the youngest of the Munster 'Gang of Four' props [Archer, Ryan, Kilcoyne and Cronin] who have been in situ for a decade and who all have massive appearance numbers for the side. You would have thought that keeping him in the mix would be almost a priority, as those lads are all 2+ years older than him and getting towards the extremes of playing age.

My feeling is that anything you get from a player after they turn 34 is a complete bonus. Players tend to get more injured and very much less effective as they hit that age – for example, Alby Mathewson has fallen off a cliff recently. Archer turned 33 at the start of the year, Ryan will turn 33 in summer and Kilcoyne will turn 33 in winter; those lads are getting towards the end of their respective careers. As Ronk said above, there'll be nothing left to build on soon enough.
Last edited by hugonaut on May 21st, 2021, 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Not that I'd write Cronin off or anything but I often find the idea that guys will improve to be way off. At his best Cronin was a seriously powerful and aggressive player, that doesn't come back in your 30's after loads of injuries. Okay he might get better at scrummaging etc but he'll never get back to that kind of physicality, nobody ever does.

I remember it being said about SOB when he was younger, that he'd improve his handling and his discipline and imagine how good he'd be then, but those extras always come after the really exceptional stuff has diminished, it's never just that they're added to the amazing physical stuff.

I'm sure Cheslin Kolbe could improve his kicking in his 30's, but it's not going to make him a better player when he's not able to dance around people like he can now.

Sorry, bit of an irrelevant rant there :lol:
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neiliog93
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by neiliog93 »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: May 20th, 2021, 5:53 pm Not that I'd write Cronin off or anything but I often find the idea that guys will improve to be way off. At his best Cronin was a seriously powerful and aggressive player, that doesn't come back in your 30's after loads of injuries. Okay he might get better at scrummaging etc but he'll never get back to that kind of physicality, nobody ever does.

I remember it being said about SOB when he was younger, that he'd improve his handling and his discipline and imagine how good he'd be then, but those extras always come after the really exceptional stuff has diminished, it's never just that they're added to the amazing physical stuff.

I'm sure Cheslin Kolbe could improve his kicking in his 30's, but it's not going to make him a better player when he's not able to dance around people like he can now.

Sorry, bit of an irrelevant rant there :lol:
I agree about most positions, but the tight five is different. While speed and agility decline, brute strength and size actually improves through the 30s (many elite level powerlifters, strongman competitors, bodybuilders, armwrestlers etc. are in their late 30s and early 40s).
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by John23 »

If I can use the phrase "Fur coat, no knickers" Munster have opted to spend their money on frivolities such as Zeebs and the shiny new Saffer but not sticking with the nuts and bolts of a prop who will see you through a sh*tty night in Limerick or Swansea in upcoming Pro14/16.
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Munster have picked three forwards who won’t be at the club next season. Archer also starting although at least Knox is on the bench ahead of Ryan.

Sorry to be a broken record about this but I can’t get over how poor their selection policy is. I appreciate that they want to reward good servants and that a stronger pack gives their backs more of a chance to impress, but they aren’t developing anything to help them improve next season.

Given that it’s so obvious that they need to do that, it’s almost negligent by JVG IMO. Some of those players won’t benefit from winning the rainbow cup if they do manage to do it, they haven’t been good enough for years and getting over the line with one meaningless trophy isn’t going to change that.
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munster#1
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

Strong looking Munster team as you would expect after their recent loss to Connacht, which has no doubt put the Munster coaching team under pressure, especially as Leinster have also shown their intent on winning this cup based on their recent team selections.

Delighted to see TOD get a start in what is likely to be one of, or even his very last games of rugby.

Great to see Casey start alongside Joey, it will be great to see what they will do if given front foot ball.

The bench is exciting, and filled with plenty of young talent, who will be eager to impress when given the chance.

Munster: Mike Haley; Andrew Conway, Damian de Allende, Rory Scannell, Shane Daly; Joey Carbery, Craig Casey; James Cronin, Niall Scannell, Stephen Archer; Jean Kleyn, Fineen Wycherley; Jack O’Donoghue, Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander (C).

Replacements: Diarmuid Barron, Jeremy Loughman, Keynan Knox, Gavin Coombes, Peter O’Mahony, Nick McCarthy, Jack Crowley, Jack O’Sullivan.
Just because a post upsets you, that doesn’t mean that it is wrong. People have different views in all aspects of life, this is a key ingredient to an interesting conversation.
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by NiallO »

Sorry Munster#1 but all Leinster Fans are unavailable to respond at this moment as they just don't care about your team, who is selected, or even the Rainbow Cup competition if we are being honest. Normal service will be resumed here next season. Until then have a great summer...
Keith
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Keith »

munster#1 wrote: May 27th, 2021, 1:30 pm Strong looking Munster team as you would expect after their recent loss to Connacht, which has no doubt put the Munster coaching team under pressure, especially as Leinster have also shown their intent on winning this cup based on their recent team selections.

Delighted to see TOD get a start in what is likely to be one of, or even his very last games of rugby.

Great to see Casey start alongside Joey, it will be great to see what they will do if given front foot ball.

The bench is exciting, and filled with plenty of young talent, who will be eager to impress when given the chance.

Munster: Mike Haley; Andrew Conway, Damian de Allende, Rory Scannell, Shane Daly; Joey Carbery, Craig Casey; James Cronin, Niall Scannell, Stephen Archer; Jean Kleyn, Fineen Wycherley; Jack O’Donoghue, Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander (C).

Replacements: Diarmuid Barron, Jeremy Loughman, Keynan Knox, Gavin Coombes, Peter O’Mahony, Nick McCarthy, Jack Crowley, Jack O’Sullivan.
Why do you keep bringing up the fact that everyone is selecting strong teams for this, like it's a surprise? Why would an organization pay their top players to sit in the stands for weeks on end?
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munster#1
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

Keith wrote: May 27th, 2021, 6:54 pm
munster#1 wrote: May 27th, 2021, 1:30 pm Strong looking Munster team as you would expect after their recent loss to Connacht, which has no doubt put the Munster coaching team under pressure, especially as Leinster have also shown their intent on winning this cup based on their recent team selections.

Delighted to see TOD get a start in what is likely to be one of, or even his very last games of rugby.

Great to see Casey start alongside Joey, it will be great to see what they will do if given front foot ball.

The bench is exciting, and filled with plenty of young talent, who will be eager to impress when given the chance.

Munster: Mike Haley; Andrew Conway, Damian de Allende, Rory Scannell, Shane Daly; Joey Carbery, Craig Casey; James Cronin, Niall Scannell, Stephen Archer; Jean Kleyn, Fineen Wycherley; Jack O’Donoghue, Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander (C).

Replacements: Diarmuid Barron, Jeremy Loughman, Keynan Knox, Gavin Coombes, Peter O’Mahony, Nick McCarthy, Jack Crowley, Jack O’Sullivan.
Why do you keep bringing up the fact that everyone is selecting strong teams for this, like it's a surprise? Why would an organization pay their top players to sit in the stands for weeks on end?
Based on the comments made prior to the tournament, it would seem that it is a surprise for many that teams are taking this tournament seriously.
Sorry if I offended you.
Just because a post upsets you, that doesn’t mean that it is wrong. People have different views in all aspects of life, this is a key ingredient to an interesting conversation.
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munster#1
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

NiallO wrote: May 27th, 2021, 5:53 pm Sorry Munster#1 but all Leinster Fans are unavailable to respond at this moment as they just don't care about your team, who is selected, or even the Rainbow Cup competition if we are being honest. Normal service will be resumed here next season. Until then have a great summer...
This is normal service.

One of the biggest positives about this forum is the pace.
With about 10 regular posters, even if you miss a few days on here it only takes a few mins to catch up.
Just because a post upsets you, that doesn’t mean that it is wrong. People have different views in all aspects of life, this is a key ingredient to an interesting conversation.
Keith
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Keith »

munster#1 wrote: May 27th, 2021, 9:01 pm
Keith wrote: May 27th, 2021, 6:54 pm
munster#1 wrote: May 27th, 2021, 1:30 pm Strong looking Munster team as you would expect after their recent loss to Connacht, which has no doubt put the Munster coaching team under pressure, especially as Leinster have also shown their intent on winning this cup based on their recent team selections.

Delighted to see TOD get a start in what is likely to be one of, or even his very last games of rugby.

Great to see Casey start alongside Joey, it will be great to see what they will do if given front foot ball.

The bench is exciting, and filled with plenty of young talent, who will be eager to impress when given the chance.

Munster: Mike Haley; Andrew Conway, Damian de Allende, Rory Scannell, Shane Daly; Joey Carbery, Craig Casey; James Cronin, Niall Scannell, Stephen Archer; Jean Kleyn, Fineen Wycherley; Jack O’Donoghue, Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander (C).

Replacements: Diarmuid Barron, Jeremy Loughman, Keynan Knox, Gavin Coombes, Peter O’Mahony, Nick McCarthy, Jack Crowley, Jack O’Sullivan.
Why do you keep bringing up the fact that everyone is selecting strong teams for this, like it's a surprise? Why would an organization pay their top players to sit in the stands for weeks on end?
Based on the comments made prior to the tournament, it would seem that it is a surprise for many that teams are taking this tournament seriously.
Sorry if I offended you.
You haven't offended anyone but you've now gotten the reaction you clearly craved.
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munster#1
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

Keith wrote: May 27th, 2021, 10:34 pm
munster#1 wrote: May 27th, 2021, 9:01 pm
Keith wrote: May 27th, 2021, 6:54 pm
Why do you keep bringing up the fact that everyone is selecting strong teams for this, like it's a surprise? Why would an organization pay their top players to sit in the stands for weeks on end?
Based on the comments made prior to the tournament, it would seem that it is a surprise for many that teams are taking this tournament seriously.
Sorry if I offended you.
You haven't offended anyone but you've now gotten the reaction you clearly craved.
I think you’re looking for an issue where there is none.
I am not a 5 yr old craving attention, I just post my opinion or observations.

You are the one who took exception to a post and questioned why I would post something, rather than add to, or counter the post itself.
Just because a post upsets you, that doesn’t mean that it is wrong. People have different views in all aspects of life, this is a key ingredient to an interesting conversation.
Keith
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Keith »

munster#1 wrote: May 27th, 2021, 11:01 pm
Keith wrote: May 27th, 2021, 10:34 pm
munster#1 wrote: May 27th, 2021, 9:01 pm

Based on the comments made prior to the tournament, it would seem that it is a surprise for many that teams are taking this tournament seriously.
Sorry if I offended you.
You haven't offended anyone but you've now gotten the reaction you clearly craved.
I think you’re looking for an issue where there is none.
I am not a 5 yr old craving attention, I just post my opinion or observations.

You are the one who took exception to a post and questioned why I would post something, rather than add to, or counter the post itself.
It's not just one post though is it, you've repeated the same point numerous times. I don't know why you're so desperate to let us all know how seriously Leinster are taking this tournament. It's more rugby, that's it and any rugby is better than none, it'll be forgotten about as soon as it's over just like the autumn nations cup. Just enjoy it for what it is.
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hugonaut
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by hugonaut »

Rhys Marshall leaving Munster: https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/05/28/ ... t-munster/

Always seemed like a very nice fellah, best of luck to him back in New Zealand.
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by Xanthippe »

Keith wrote: May 27th, 2021, 11:35 pm
munster#1 wrote: May 27th, 2021, 11:01 pm
Keith wrote: May 27th, 2021, 10:34 pm
You haven't offended anyone but you've now gotten the reaction you clearly craved.
I think you’re looking for an issue where there is none.
I am not a 5 yr old craving attention, I just post my opinion or observations.

You are the one who took exception to a post and questioned why I would post something, rather than add to, or counter the post itself.
It's not just one post though is it, you've repeated the same point numerous times. I don't know why you're so desperate to let us all know how seriously Leinster are taking this tournament. It's more rugby, that's it and any rugby is better than none, it'll be forgotten about as soon as it's over just like the autumn nations cup. Just enjoy it for what it is.
Because then it makes Munster's eventual win all the sweeter - it'll be 'Munster snatch victory in competition Leinster were DESPERATE to win' :twisted:
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by fourthirtythree »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: May 27th, 2021, 12:26 pm Munster have picked three forwards who won’t be at the club next season. Archer also starting although at least Knox is on the bench ahead of Ryan.

Sorry to be a broken record about this but I can’t get over how poor their selection policy is. I appreciate that they want to reward good servants and that a stronger pack gives their backs more of a chance to impress, but they aren’t developing anything to help them improve next season.

Given that it’s so obvious that they need to do that, it’s almost negligent by JVG IMO. Some of those players won’t benefit from winning the rainbow cup if they do manage to do it, they haven’t been good enough for years and getting over the line with one meaningless trophy isn’t going to change that.
I believe Salanoa is injured again so only one of the young tightheads seems reasonable. And you'd only pick one if the two were available if you had ambitions to win something.
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by wixfjord »

hugonaut wrote: May 28th, 2021, 11:50 am Rhys Marshall leaving Munster: https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/05/28/ ... t-munster/

Always seemed like a very nice fellah, best of luck to him back in New Zealand.
What was the story with this guy?

Always thought he had a much higher ceiling than Scannell and should've been a starter but he never really seemed to kick on.

Munster front row stocks next year are a lot thinner than this year.

Kilcoyne/Loughman/LOC/Wycherly
Scannell/KOB/Barron
Archer/Ryan/Knox/Salanoa

Is that right?

That lineup will need all the Saffer beef it can get behind it.
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munster#1
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by munster#1 »

Keith wrote: May 27th, 2021, 11:35 pm
munster#1 wrote: May 27th, 2021, 11:01 pm
Keith wrote: May 27th, 2021, 10:34 pm
You haven't offended anyone but you've now gotten the reaction you clearly craved.
I think you’re looking for an issue where there is none.
I am not a 5 yr old craving attention, I just post my opinion or observations.

You are the one who took exception to a post and questioned why I would post something, rather than add to, or counter the post itself.
It's not just one post though is it, you've repeated the same point numerous times. I don't know why you're so desperate to let us all know how seriously Leinster are taking this tournament. It's more rugby, that's it and any rugby is better than none, it'll be forgotten about as soon as it's over just like the autumn nations cup. Just enjoy it for what it is.
Again, you are taking exception to a non issue for no apparent reason.

I wasn’t aware that I was a serial poster on this item, and if I have been, and for some reason it has offended you, then I am sorry.
But you do seem to be getting a bit precious about this.
There is no hidden motive behind my posts, no X files like theory need be applied.

I like many, had expected teams to play weak teams in this tournament, and I like many, am pleasantly surprised to see that this is not the case.
Just because a post upsets you, that doesn’t mean that it is wrong. People have different views in all aspects of life, this is a key ingredient to an interesting conversation.
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

fourthirtythree wrote: May 28th, 2021, 12:02 pm
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: May 27th, 2021, 12:26 pm Munster have picked three forwards who won’t be at the club next season. Archer also starting although at least Knox is on the bench ahead of Ryan.

Sorry to be a broken record about this but I can’t get over how poor their selection policy is. I appreciate that they want to reward good servants and that a stronger pack gives their backs more of a chance to impress, but they aren’t developing anything to help them improve next season.

Given that it’s so obvious that they need to do that, it’s almost negligent by JVG IMO. Some of those players won’t benefit from winning the rainbow cup if they do manage to do it, they haven’t been good enough for years and getting over the line with one meaningless trophy isn’t going to change that.
I believe Salanoa is injured again so only one of the young tightheads seems reasonable. And you'd only pick one if the two were available if you had ambitions to win something.
Im not just basing it on this selection though and as I said it’s not just the tightheads. I’d have started Knox but there’s heaps of issues.

Honestly they’re sleepwalking into the same old problems. They’ll get back to a knock out game next season and wonder why their front and back rows aren’t up to it.
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Re: Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

wixfjord wrote: May 28th, 2021, 12:07 pm
hugonaut wrote: May 28th, 2021, 11:50 am Rhys Marshall leaving Munster: https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/05/28/ ... t-munster/

Always seemed like a very nice fellah, best of luck to him back in New Zealand.
What was the story with this guy?

Always thought he had a much higher ceiling than Scannell and should've been a starter but he never really seemed to kick on.
Was just wondering the same thing and have been for a while. I think there was a (brief) spell where he had a legitimate argument as being the best hooker in the country. He had everything and then seemed to pick up an injury or two and it all went wrong very quickly.
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