Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

[munster#1]

Gutted to see Cronin leaving.
I know he is not really liked on here, but he is a genuinely nice lad, and a great ambassador for Munster off of the field.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/spor ... vince.html

[LeRouxIsPHat]

That’s a pity if he’s only going because they couldn’t afford him.

When does that new South African they don’t need arrive btw?

[sunshiner1]

Shame. Kilcoyne is getting on and the others guys are a while off reaching his level. This will weaken an already weak front row by Munster.

[neiliog93]

They would have been better off losing one of Archer or John Ryan on the tight-head side, as Knox and Salanoa are good prospects. At loosehead, Loughman is a decent Pro 14 player but there's not much depth. I know Josh Wycherley is quite highly rated, but he's still very young, and very small for the position.

[hugonaut]

This has been rumoured for so long that it feels like the dogs on the street knew about it. I think I heard that he was leaving in December – the rumour at the time was Lyon.

He's obviously on the outside looking in as far as international recognition goes – five players were picked at loosehead for Ireland in front of him this season: Healy, Kilcoyne, Byrne, O'Sullivan and Bealham. He has played some good rugby this year but he would only ever be on the fringes of the Irish squad, and I think that the botched drug test, mix-up that it was, counted against him.

I've written this time and again [so apologies for repeating myself] but Munster are so, so short of Munster-born players born 1990-96, i.e. 24-30 year olds, a seven year period.

b.1990 - Simon Zebo [James Cronin]
b.1991 - Kevin O’Byrne
b.1992 - Niall Scannell, Neil Cronin [J.J. Hanrahan]
b.1993 - Rory Scannell [Darren Sweetnam]
b.1994 - Jack O’Donoghue, Dan Goggin
b.1995 - Liam O’Connor
b.1996 - Shane Daly

They have this massive hole in their squad where they produced f*ck-all players. And by the end of this season, three of the most experienced ones - Cronin currently has 142 appearances to his name, as does Hanrahan, while Sweetnam made 92 appearances – will have all shipped out.

I reckon we will be talking about Munster 'being in transition' within the next 18-24 months.

[wixfjord]

They would have been better off losing one of Archer or John Ryan on the tight-head side, as Knox and Salanoa are good prospects. At loosehead, Loughman is a decent Pro 14 player but there's not much depth. I know Josh Wycherley is quite highly rated, but he's still very young, and very small for the position.

They've Kilcoyne, Loughman, Liam O'Connor & Wycherly there, along with French in the academy. So fairly well stacked.

[ronk]

They have depth and can manage without him. As you said Hugo, he has no international carrot and Munster aren't going to reach for him so he's the sort of player who might go to market. Per here he wasn't offered a contract https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/mu ... 46659.html

It's now officially a clear out. 3 of the most experienced and senior players in the all important 24-30 prime age group (should be the bulk of the team) have all been cut.

Most of the others won't be too confident for their own reasons. Soon there won't be anything to rebuild on.

[neiliog93]

They would have been better off losing one of Archer or John Ryan on the tight-head side, as Knox and Salanoa are good prospects. At loosehead, Loughman is a decent Pro 14 player but there's not much depth. I know Josh Wycherley is quite highly rated, but he's still very young, and very small for the position.

They've Kilcoyne, Loughman, Liam O'Connor & Wycherly there, along with French in the academy. So fairly well stacked.

I disagree. O'Connor is average and I don't rate French very highly.

[wixfjord]

They would have been better off losing one of Archer or John Ryan on the tight-head side, as Knox and Salanoa are good prospects. At loosehead, Loughman is a decent Pro 14 player but there's not much depth. I know Josh Wycherley is quite highly rated, but he's still very young, and very small for the position.

They've Kilcoyne, Loughman, Liam O'Connor & Wycherly there, along with French in the academy. So fairly well stacked.

I disagree. O'Connor is average and I don't rate French very highly.

Disagree with what?! They've 5 LHs even after Cronin leaving and four THs.

[neiliog93]

Having very mediocre options down the pecking at loosehead isn't depth. It's not depth if they're poor. By contrast, young options at tight-head (Knox, Salanoa) have much more potential as well as current ability. Therefore, tight-head depth is superior, and it would have been less damaging for them to lose one of their older tight-heads than James Cronin.

[ronk]

Cronin was cut. It wasn't clear at 1st but the stories are there.

He was cut because he's a 30 year old loosehead who's been around a long time and was capped 5+ years ago. So he's on future international money and has been working his way up the scale. He's the top loosehead who's out of the international running, so the IRFU will let him leave. If Kilcoyne gets injured they're out of the running against the top teams anyway. Younger players have more upside.

Munster cut Sweetnam and JJ too.

[wixfjord]

Having very mediocre options down the pecking at loosehead isn't depth. It's not depth if they're poor. By contrast, young options at tight-head (Knox, Salanoa) have much more potential as well as current ability. Therefore, tight-head depth is superior, and it would have been less damaging for them to lose one of their older tight-heads than James Cronin.

I think you're massively overrating James Cronin! Loughman is at least as good and 5 years younger imo.

Wycherly has more than held his own away to Clermont. Knox, and certainly Salanoa, have done nothing close to that.

[LeinsterLeader]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/051 ... departure/ Interesting comment from Birch

Munster's decision to dispense with the services of James Cronin has been described as "awful" and "madness".

The province announced yesterday that the 30-year-old prop would leave at the end of the season. He has made 142 appearances and won three Irish caps to date.

"I think it’s an awful decision," former Munster and Ireland captain Donal Lenihan told the RTÉ Rugby podcast.

"The optics are poor. This is a homegrown fella. He’s only 30 years of age so his best three or four years are ahead of him.

"He’s had a fantastic season, he’s never started more games for Munster.

"Dave Kilcoyne is neck and neck with Cian Healy for the Irish loosehead jersey at the moment and James Cronin isn’t that far behind him.

"It does come down to money but this is a decision they got wrong."

Former Ireland hooker Bernard Jackman added that he believed the decision not to keep Cronin, who was suspended in April of last year for an unintentional anti-doping violation, is "madness".

"I’d rather have two or three players less [in the wider squad] and have to go to the AIL to get a player if I am stuck to play a Pro16 match next year but have the artillery on the bench or in the starting team to be able to win a knock-out stage match in Europe with James Cronin.

"They are not going to be able to replace James Cronin with a non-Irish qualified equivalent.

"I reckon it’s just down to a mismanagement of their budget, spending too much in certain areas and it’s going to cost them next year at some stage.

"Cronin has experience in the bank, he’s been there, done that. It’s money I’d be willing to spend to have that second top-end loosehead there."

[Oldschoolsocks]

Yeah, but zeebs

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Cronin seems to have been in amazing form in the last 48 hours, much better than the player I remember seeing before he announced he was leaving.

[OTT]

I think it is a decision (maybe not out of their own doing but none the less) that will stand to them long term. His biggest selling point was that he comes from Cork. It’s 5 years since he last got capped for Ireland. He had his biggest influence in a few years this season because he was fit but I think that shows you the Munster mindset if fit will always play them, they do the same on the other side of the scrum as well and everywhere else. Wycherley got a couple of games and did quite well but he was the last man standing. Back him and he has potential, Cronin’s potential is all in the past, now it’s he’s grizzly, he’s a bit of a beefy bollix and he’s from Cork. The way they fall into their squad is not ideal but in this stance I think it might work for them long term.

[OTT]

Cronin seems to have been in amazing form in the last 48 hours, much better than the player I remember seeing before he announced he was leaving.

[wixfjord]

Cronin seems to have been in amazing form in the last 48 hours, much better than the player I remember seeing before he announced he was leaving.

I'm the exact same!

Like is this the same James Cronin who has been nowhere near an Irish squad for years and is a penalty/card machine?

People do remember his performance against us in the recent Pro14 Final right?

[Laighin Break]

And Donal Lenihan saying that at 30 "his best three or four years are ahead of him" is being a bit optimistic!
People having been writing Healy off since he turned 30 (admittedly he has had a much heavier career).

[ronk]

And Donal Lenihan saying that at 30 "his best three or four years are ahead of him" is being a bit optimistic!
People having been writing Healy off since he turned 30 (admittedly he has had a much heavier career).

Kilcoyne is 32, Archer is 33. Billy Holland is 35 and probably had a year or two in the tank.

Healy had a dip in form related to injuries. Once he got over playing through them (& trimmed to a lighter playing weight was part of that) he was back.