Munster Rugby - Semi Conscious, the Series Finale??? - 2020/21

[mildlyinterested]

Leinster got hammered way worse in the 00's. And Munster fans/media lorded it over Leinster much more too.

[IanD]

Lots of real extremism on this site over the last few days.
Munster make the final of the Pro14 with ease, and are one of 2 provinces to still be in Europe’s premier competition due to winning 100% of their games, which also awards them with a coveted home match.

But would they have made the Final with Ulster in their conference?

They certainly weren't going to make the final from Leinster's side.

In a normal season 2nd would have given them a shot at a Semi Final. Lose that and the title of this thread becomes Rugby imitating Life or vice versa.

[munster#1]

Witch hunt?

Extremism?

Jaysus man give it a break will you.

Well from the outside looking in it definitely seems that way.
Have a read through some of the stuff that has been posted in relation to Munster’s players, coaches, squad development, and signings.

[mildlyinterested]

I've seen quite a few pundits in the media say DDA has been a hugely successful signing for Munster, it's almost like there is a refusal to admit that he has been just okay to date.

I can't think of one notable play/moment so far in his munster career, 19 appearances and 1 try which was against Zebre.

His performance against Leinster at the weekend was notable for how poor it was, granted he was playing behind a beaten pack and was worried about Joey missing tackles beside him but..

[blockhead]

I've seen quite a few pundits in the media say DDA has been a hugely successful signing for Munster, it's almost like there is a refusal to admit that he has been just okay to date.

I can't think of one notable play/moment so far in his munster career, 19 appearances and 1 try which was against Zebre.

His performance against Leinster at the weekend was notable for how poor it was, granted he was playing behind a beaten pack and was worried about Joey missing tackles beside him but..

Yeah, I'm not seeing it myself.

[hugonaut]

I've seen quite a few pundits in the media say DDA has been a hugely successful signing for Munster, it's almost like there is a refusal to admit that he has been just okay to date.

I can't think of one notable play/moment so far in his munster career, 19 appearances and 1 try which was against Zebre.

His performance against Leinster at the weekend was notable for how poor it was, granted he was playing behind a beaten pack and was worried about Joey missing tackles beside him but..

He was poor at the weekend, strangely poor.

Over the course of the season I think he has been good but not a hugely successful signing yet. We all saw the extremely high standard he was capable of playing at in RWC19 – he was probably the best centre in the tournament, which is the strongest possible argument you could make for being the best centre in the world.

[mildlyinterested]

Donal Lenihan fairly ripped into Munster on the rte rugby podcast.

Questioned young player development, signing of Jenkins and claiming he was backrow cover, Larkham's media comments etc.

"Leinster streets ahead of Munster when it comes to coaching and management"

[ronk]

Strange that the media are putting the boot in right now. Have they forgotten that this weekend is the most important for Munster’s season?

There are problems, but the focus should be on right now. Unfortunately the coaching team deserve some of the blame for looking backwards in interviews.

There are still 2 trophies in play.

[ronk]

And announcing Jenkins right now was a gaff.

[wixfjord]

And announcing Jenkins right now was a gaff.

100%.

The issues this week have been mainly caused by awful communications strategy from Munster. Witch hunt me hole.

Here's an alternate universe scenario:

- JVG says something nondescript or takes the blame in his post game interview instead of giving Leinster effusive praise
- Larkham doesn't talk about how close they were or how there are doubts creeping in, but instead says 'this is a massive European game week at home against a superpower with almost a full squad. We thrive in that scenario'.
- Munster don't announce a new random Saffer second row signing on the same day they announce two homegrown backs leaving
- Munster don't leak that they were due to sign PSDT but for the IRFU

If that had happened, the furore over last weekend's non performance would've died down and there wouldn't be articles from the likes of Darce, Murray K and Cian Treacy on the squad movement.

[munster#1]

And announcing Jenkins right now was a gaff.

100%.

The issues this week have been mainly caused by awful communications strategy from Munster. Witch hunt me hole.

Here's an alternate universe scenario:

- JVG says something nondescript or takes the blame in his post game interview instead of giving Leinster effusive praise
- Larkham doesn't talk about how close they were or how there are doubts creeping in, but instead says 'this is a massive European game week at home against a superpower with almost a full squad. We thrive in that scenario'.
- Munster don't announce a new random Saffer second row signing on the same day they announce two homegrown backs leaving
- Munster don't leak that they were due to sign PSDT but for the IRFU

If that had happened, the furore over last weekend's non performance would've died down and there wouldn't be articles from the likes of Darce, Murray K and Cian Treacy on the squad movement.

Do you not think that this post is a bit ironic??

[wixfjord]

And announcing Jenkins right now was a gaff.

100%.

The issues this week have been mainly caused by awful communications strategy from Munster. Witch hunt me hole.

Here's an alternate universe scenario:

- JVG says something nondescript or takes the blame in his post game interview instead of giving Leinster effusive praise
- Larkham doesn't talk about how close they were or how there are doubts creeping in, but instead says 'this is a massive European game week at home against a superpower with almost a full squad. We thrive in that scenario'.
- Munster don't announce a new random Saffer second row signing on the same day they announce two homegrown backs leaving
- Munster don't leak that they were due to sign PSDT but for the IRFU

If that had happened, the furore over last weekend's non performance would've died down and there wouldn't be articles from the likes of Darce, Murray K and Cian Treacy on the squad movement.

Do you not think that this post is a bit ironic??

Why is that Alanis?!

[munster#1]

100%.

The issues this week have been mainly caused by awful communications strategy from Munster. Witch hunt me hole.

Here's an alternate universe scenario:

- JVG says something nondescript or takes the blame in his post game interview instead of giving Leinster effusive praise
- Larkham doesn't talk about how close they were or how there are doubts creeping in, but instead says 'this is a massive European game week at home against a superpower with almost a full squad. We thrive in that scenario'.
- Munster don't announce a new random Saffer second row signing on the same day they announce two homegrown backs leaving
- Munster don't leak that they were due to sign PSDT but for the IRFU

If that had happened, the furore over last weekend's non performance would've died down and there wouldn't be articles from the likes of Darce, Murray K and Cian Treacy on the squad movement.

Do you not think that this post is a bit ironic??

Why is that Alanis?!

I never claimed it was Alanis, but isn’t it ironic?

You say “witch hunt me hole” and then you go on to talk about some fairytale alternative universe, listing things that Munster should have done.

I’m sure that this will be lost on you, and is really a nonversation as the cool kids would call it, but I do find it funny.

[wixfjord]

I never claimed it was Alanis, but isn’t it ironic?

You say “witch hunt me hole” and then you go on to talk about some fairytale alternative universe, listing things that Munster should have done.

I’m sure that this will be lost on you, and is really a nonversation as the cool kids would call it, but I do find it funny.

So where specifically is the irony there?

Why is it ironic to say Munster have engaged in a communications strategy that has caused them more problems and to illustrate what they could've done instead?

[heno]

Lots of real extremism on this site over the last few days.
Munster make the final of the Pro14 with ease, and are one of 2 provinces to still be in Europe’s premier competition due to winning 100% of their games, which also awards them with a coveted home match.

Yet, if you were to read the comments on here you would believe that Munster were a bottom or the barrel team.
Munster have a very good record in comparison to most teams, and the fact that they generate such a response from their recent loss to one of Europe’s best teams, would suggest that most media outlets and rugby fans believe that they are still a very good team.

Some of the comments are so myopic that we even had one poster suggest that Munster are the only team that do not believe in developing their own squad. This while using 53 players to date this season. Including Playing academy players in big European games, and still making a final and being one of 2 provinces left in the HC.

I am not sure of the numbers, but I would be very surprised if Connacht and Ulster have used more home grown players this season?

Munster are by no means perfect, and when you compare them against Leinster, they are poor. But Leinster are the outlier, and to compare any team against an outlier is a poor way to analyse them.

Surely it would be fairer to compare them with the norm? If you do, you will see that Munster are not as poor or as evil as this witch hunt would suggest.

The bulk of the criticism isn't that you lost one final right now, it's that you havent won anything for 10 years.
And when evaluating a team it's not about what is the median performance of the other teams, it's the return on investment /expectation of that team. Munster has spent the bulk of those 10 years with one of the best funded squads in europe, certainly in the pro 14, a high number of internationals, good smattering of top quality foreign signings, etc.
The stat of 6 euro QF in the last 10 years should be celebrated. But what is the minimum stat that is acceptable? 5? 4? At the top end of rugby the difference between adequate and not acceptable is not very much at all.

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[Sugary tae]

Just my two cents but I think this weeks furore (and next week baring a miracle ) are evidence of the fanbase really losing patience. It’s covering over short comings and frankly if ever there was a moment for a coach to say we didn’t perform or fire a shot Saturday was it

The jenkings signing might not be the worst in the world if they intelligently manage it and ensure that he eats rg/kleyns minutes (keeping them fresher) rather than Ahern and Wycherley.
I’ve no issue with seeing JJ sweetnam and possibly cronin heading off. Squad needs freshening up and I think there’s young guys in those positions who need minutes. Spending their wages on jenkings isn’t equitable.


Looking further down the line though I think the thing that hurts most is the lack of progression on game plan. Whatever about not seeing some movez (tm) in end of season finals we haven’t seen them at any stage. If you live with us physically, which Leinster do for fun, we are just not a threat. Jvg also chose poorly in his selection for Saturday. Conway hasn’t been seen all year and wasn’t remotely sharp enough. Similarly why we didn’t pick Ahern and salanoa/Knox for carrying ability in the final stages I don’t get. Every match between us tends to be tight (even when you beat us out the gate like Saturday) so picking guys who might punch holes in the final 10 mins should be a priority. I despair

[The Doc]

He was poor at the weekend, strangely poor.

Over the course of the season I think he has been good but not a hugely successful signing yet. We all saw the extremely high standard he was capable of playing at in RWC19 – he was probably the best centre in the tournament, which is the strongest possible argument you could make for being the best centre in the world.

Come on Hugonaut - we must be do a 4 hour Demented Mole special on the state of the provinces.

Some of us need content while we pretend to work

[munster#1]

Lots of real extremism on this site over the last few days.
Munster make the final of the Pro14 with ease, and are one of 2 provinces to still be in Europe’s premier competition due to winning 100% of their games, which also awards them with a coveted home match.

Yet, if you were to read the comments on here you would believe that Munster were a bottom or the barrel team.
Munster have a very good record in comparison to most teams, and the fact that they generate such a response from their recent loss to one of Europe’s best teams, would suggest that most media outlets and rugby fans believe that they are still a very good team.

Some of the comments are so myopic that we even had one poster suggest that Munster are the only team that do not believe in developing their own squad. This while using 53 players to date this season. Including Playing academy players in big European games, and still making a final and being one of 2 provinces left in the HC.

I am not sure of the numbers, but I would be very surprised if Connacht and Ulster have used more home grown players this season?

Munster are by no means perfect, and when you compare them against Leinster, they are poor. But Leinster are the outlier, and to compare any team against an outlier is a poor way to analyse them.

Surely it would be fairer to compare them with the norm? If you do, you will see that Munster are not as poor or as evil as this witch hunt would suggest.

The bulk of the criticism isn't that you lost one final right now, it's that you havent won anything for 10 years.
And when evaluating a team it's not about what is the median performance of the other teams, it's the return on investment /expectation of that team. Munster has spent the bulk of those 10 years with one of the best funded squads in europe, certainly in the pro 14, a high number of internationals, good smattering of top quality foreign signings, etc.
The stat of 6 euro QF in the last 10 years should be celebrated. But what is the minimum stat that is acceptable? 5? 4? At the top end of rugby the difference between adequate and not acceptable is not very much at all.

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I would love to see the figures in relation to investment in squads in Europe or even the Pro14 over the last decade.
It would be a very interesting and informative read.
I would be surprised if Munster were one of the Top in Europe, but not as much in the Pro14.

I agree that a team of Munster’s stature should have won some silverware over the last decade, but this period has coincided with Leinster being one of the best in the world, so it is not a massive surprise that we see this drought.

For me, the fact that Munster have made 6 quarter finals and 5 semifinals in Europe is a very impressive stat, and must surely be a convincing stat to show that Munster have probably over achieved if you were to believe many of the comments regarding how poor their set up is from top to bottom?

Additionally when comparing Munster to others, I was mostly directing that at the idiotic post stating that 3 of the 4 provinces are investing in in-house development, and Munster are ignoring it.
Munster like with silverware, should look to improve, but this was a statement that neglects facts completely.

[hugonaut]

Strange that the media are putting the boot in right now. Have they forgotten that this weekend is the most important for Munster’s season?

There are problems, but the focus should be on right now. Unfortunately the coaching team deserve some of the blame for looking backwards in interviews.

There are still 2 trophies in play.

Absolutely. They could have some real fire in their bellies and go out and knock over Toulouse. They're well capable of it. They have lots of quality in that team – multiple Lions, multiple Grand Slam winners, 50+ cap internationals, a World Cup winner etc. Again, they've won 16/19 matches this season.

I think that they're getting a bit of a kicking now because a] they didn't put in a strong performance in the final and b] everyone in the country is cranky, short-tempered and prone to whinging at the moment after 12months + of isolation from wider society. I know I am!

[blockhead]

Strange that the media are putting the boot in right now. Have they forgotten that this weekend is the most important for Munster’s season?

There are problems, but the focus should be on right now. Unfortunately the coaching team deserve some of the blame for looking backwards in interviews.

There are still 2 trophies in play.

Munster made the media look like fools on Saturday.