NZ proposing new competition - implications for Arg

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The Doc
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NZ proposing new competition - implications for Arg

Post by The Doc »

Seems NZ are proposing a new comp from 2021 with just NZ, Aus and a Pacific Islands team. Obviously SA might be looking north but it seems Argentina could be in trouble

I've thought for a while that Argentina was in a weak position in that comp. I know the current standards aren't great but it might be better for them to try to work with Latin American unions to try to build up a regional comp

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/nz-rugby-d ... argentina/
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Dave Cahill
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Re: NZ proposing new competition - implications for Arg

Post by Dave Cahill »

Argentina have always had a strange relationship with both the northern and southern hemispheres. Historically, the Argentinian game has always been part of the anglophone world and the social history of the game looks to England. In recent years most of their players have plied their trade in France and the large Italian heritage and expatriate community in BA has meant that there are close links between the game in Argentina and the game in Italy. Culturally, they are a northern hemisphere team.

However, their geographic location in the southern hemisphere has led to them being lumped into SANZAAR and it has never been a comfortable fit. They are in the SH, but are isolated there. The distances are immense (10,000km to Auckland, 11,800km to Sydney, only 8,000km to Jo'burg). They have all the same difficulties of distance that they have from the Northern Hemisphere, but none of the historical or cultural alignment.

That's without discussing the UAR who are notoriously ramshackle and difficult to deal with.

They have three options.

1) Status Quo - An option I don't think that either they, or SA, NZ or Aus want, it was a bad marriage of inconvenience

2) Northern Hemisphere - with so many of their players based here and the history of Argentinian rugby it would make sense that they would, internationally at least, join the NH competitions and base themselves in either Spain, or as been mooted previously, Belgium. Rugby Europe would have an absolute sh!t-fit coniption though

3) South America - Argentina are utterly dominant here. They've won every South American Championship they've been allowed enter and won every Copa Sudamerica. They are now playing in the South American Six Nations of which their A side are the current champions. There is no competition for them in South America, despite them doing a passable impression of France in the 30s and trying to hothouse the continent into a raised standard.
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Re: NZ proposing new competition - implications for Arg

Post by The Doc »

Dave Cahill wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 10:18 am
3) South America - Argentina are utterly dominant here. They've won every South American Championship they've been allowed enter and won every Copa Sudamerica. They are now playing in the South American Six Nations of which their A side are the current champions. There is no competition for them in South America, despite them doing a passable impression of France in the 30s and trying to hothouse the continent into a raised standard.
Yeah I know - but given the way the north and south are going, I'm not sure either avenue is going to work out for them. There is a long niche history of rugby in Chile, Uruguay, Brazil etc - the Southern Cone essentially - not dissimilar to rugby in Argentina but smaller. While Argentina are completely dominant, I think it might be in their interest to have a "club" competition where these countries operate a single club (essentially national team entrants) and even allow some player transfer from Argentina (for club, not national, comp). Or a comp with the US & Canada with some broader Latin America representation.

If they continue to hitch their cart to SANZAR or 6N, I think they are goosed.
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Dave Cahill
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Re: NZ proposing new competition - implications for Arg

Post by Dave Cahill »

The Doc wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 11:18 am
Dave Cahill wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 10:18 am
3) South America - Argentina are utterly dominant here. They've won every South American Championship they've been allowed enter and won every Copa Sudamerica. They are now playing in the South American Six Nations of which their A side are the current champions. There is no competition for them in South America, despite them doing a passable impression of France in the 30s and trying to hothouse the continent into a raised standard.
Yeah I know - but given the way the north and south are going, I'm not sure either avenue is going to work out for them. There is a long niche history of rugby in Chile, Uruguay, Brazil etc - the Southern Cone essentially - not dissimilar to rugby in Argentina but smaller. While Argentina are completely dominant, I think it might be in their interest to have a "club" competition where these countries operate a single club (essentially national team entrants) and even allow some player transfer from Argentina (for club, not national, comp). Or a comp with the US & Canada with some broader Latin America representation.

If they continue to hitch their cart to SANZAR or 6N, I think they are goosed.
Oh I agree, their future in the long term is in South America, but the problem is that in the short and medium term, while South America gets up to their speed, where do Argentina get the competition that keeps them at the top levels
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johng
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Re: NZ proposing new competition - implications for Arg

Post by johng »

The famous "World champs every year" That Big Billy Beaumont and chums were trying to organise?

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Re: NZ proposing new competition - implications for Arg

Post by Dwarf »

The way forward for Argentina is to set up a club based in Barcelona and see can they build from there by gaining entry into one of the European competitions. The most likely is Pro14 but I wouldn’t put it beyond the French to be welcoming hosts to an Argy run European club.

If they can build on that and perhaps get a second club into the Celtic League they can then build momentum to gaining access to the 6 Nations which is all the more likely If South Africa are courted by CVC and gain access.

With South Africa being left out in the cold of the Super Rugby Covid or no Covid the time zone realities mean they are better suited to 6 nations rugby. If that happens and with CVC potentially looking for more pay days - change is on the horizon and increasingly likely.

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