Pro 14 - General Thread

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The Doc
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by The Doc »

Dave Cahill wrote:
August 17th, 2020, 6:02 pm

No, he isn't. Hes living in a world where he finds it ridiculous that the two highest profile players in it, the captains of their countries, the Lions Captain and the Lions outhalf, don't play any games in their club primary competition. And he's right. In the last 10 years, Sexton has started 60 of the 198 Celtic League games he has been at Leinster for (from before he was an international regular). Since returning from France he has started 14 regular season games in the League and 9 of those were interpros.

Now, you can argue the merits of player managment as regards the international team and I don't disagree with a lot of it, but it is inarguable the damage it is doing to the league and sufficient damage to the league will ultimately damage the international team.
Dave,
- do you think attendances and interest in Welsh regions would change significantly if Leinster sent over a team of front liners every time?
- do you think the people in Welsh rugby who cite the lack of international stars also advocate for the regions to be part of an English league to increase interest and attendance even if that meant a format where regions could end up relegated or could end up playing some teams with no international players

I see a lack of internal consistency in the argument out of Wales. They hang the lack of interest on failure to play international stars and at the same time claim advocate for formats where they could end up seeing no big name players. I don't believe the make up of the visiting teams makes any difference to the interest. The real problem is that this section of Welsh rugby really just wants to play in an English league and preferably dismantle the regions and go back to clubs. There won't be any adjustment to our selection that will change that
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Dave Cahill
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by Dave Cahill »

The Doc wrote:
August 18th, 2020, 9:14 am

Dave,
- do you think attendances and interest in Welsh regions would change significantly if Leinster sent over a team of front liners every time?
- do you think the people in Welsh rugby who cite the lack of international stars also advocate for the regions to be part of an English league to increase interest and attendance even if that meant a format where regions could end up relegated or could end up playing some teams with no international players

I see a lack of internal consistency in the argument out of Wales. They hang the lack of interest on failure to play international stars and at the same time claim advocate for formats where they could end up seeing no big name players. I don't believe the make up of the visiting teams makes any difference to the interest. The real problem is that this section of Welsh rugby really just wants to play in an English league and preferably dismantle the regions and go back to clubs. There won't be any adjustment to our selection that will change that
Would attendances change significantly on the back of a strong selection? No. Not taken in isolation. What understrength teams do though is undermine the image of the league as a Premium league. As does the constant chopping and changing of structure and composition. What will increase interest and attendance is the belief that the league is a premium product and that is not how it is perceived.

What hasn't helped is the perception that the league is run for the benefit of the Irish teams, the PrO'12 and the RabO'Direct were popular nicknames (the monopoly of Irish brands over sponsorship is an indicator of where the economic strength of the league is). The league has consistently failed to make the point that the actual case is that the Irish teams benefited from how the league is run for everyone through good management and having the right systems in place.

Welsh Rugby is very splintered, there is no consistency in the argument out of Wales because every faction is making a different, often contradictory, argument. There are the village club people, the premiership people, the national team people, the regional supporters and each faction is making entirely self-interested arguments. But they aren't the people in control - not really. The people who are in control of professional rugby, the Union and the Regions, have no interest in leaving the Celtic bloc and joining the English league and have no interest in a return to club-based rugby. They know that rugby in Wales is a minority sport, they know that rugby in Wales has neither the critical mass of participation or attendance to make a club based system viable. They know that Wales can't sell enough PTV subscriptions. They know that the only thing that Welsh rugby has that is of interest to the English is their players. They know that both a standalone model or a model with them in the English League would lead to the death of professional rugby in Wales and its concomitant effect on the National team
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

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Planet Rugby reporting Jamie Roberts has tested positive for Covid-19

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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by paddyor »

Dave Cahill wrote:
August 18th, 2020, 11:11 am
Would attendances change significantly on the back of a strong selection? No. Not taken in isolation. What understrength teams do though is undermine the image of the league as a Premium league. As does the constant chopping and changing of structure and composition. What will increase interest and attendance is the belief that the league is a premium product and that is not how it is perceived.

What hasn't helped is the perception that the league is run for the benefit of the Irish teams, the PrO'12 and the RabO'Direct were popular nicknames (the monopoly of Irish brands over sponsorship is an indicator of where the economic strength of the league is). The league has consistently failed to make the point that the actual case is that the Irish teams benefited from how the league is run for everyone through good management and having the right systems in place.

Welsh Rugby is very splintered, there is no consistency in the argument out of Wales because every faction is making a different, often contradictory, argument. There are the village club people, the premiership people, the national team people, the regional supporters and each faction is making entirely self-interested arguments. But they aren't the people in control - not really. The people who are in control of professional rugby, the Union and the Regions, have no interest in leaving the Celtic bloc and joining the English league and have no interest in a return to club-based rugby. They know that rugby in Wales is a minority sport, they know that rugby in Wales has neither the critical mass of participation or attendance to make a club based system viable. They know that Wales can't sell enough PTV subscriptions. They know that the only thing that Welsh rugby has that is of interest to the English is their players. They know that both a standalone model or a model with them in the English League would lead to the death of professional rugby in Wales and its concomitant effect on the National team
So there's a lot of motivated reasoning from different factions. Nothing we can do about that and Marguee players in a few league games a year won't change it.
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by Dave Cahill »

paddyor wrote:
August 19th, 2020, 4:25 pm
So there's a lot of motivated reasoning from different factions. Nothing we can do about that and Marguee players in a few league games a year won't change it.
It will change the perception of the league - which is pretty much identical across the all welsh stakeholders, as well as being significantly widespread amongst Irish and Scottish stakeholders also - that it isn't a premium product. Indeed, its one of the very few things that can be done that would reach across all Welsh factions.
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by FLIP »

Dave Cahill wrote:
August 19th, 2020, 4:34 pm
paddyor wrote:
August 19th, 2020, 4:25 pm
So there's a lot of motivated reasoning from different factions. Nothing we can do about that and Marguee players in a few league games a year won't change it.
It will change the perception of the league - which is pretty much identical across the all welsh stakeholders, as well as being significantly widespread amongst Irish and Scottish stakeholders also - that it isn't a premium product. Indeed, its one of the very few things that can be done that would reach across all Welsh factions.
Maybe if those Welsh stakeholders want the league to be a premium product they could try being less sh!t?
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by leinsterforever »

One thing I would say is that, with there only being four pro teams, and the AIL not being as high a standard as the Currie Cup or the ITM Cup (or whatever it's called now), you need games for the squad players to play in so sufficient player depth is developed in Irish rugby.

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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by paddyor »

Dave Cahill wrote:
August 19th, 2020, 4:34 pm
paddyor wrote:
August 19th, 2020, 4:25 pm
So there's a lot of motivated reasoning from different factions. Nothing we can do about that and Marguee players in a few league games a year won't change it.
It will change the perception of the league - which is pretty much identical across the all welsh stakeholders, as well as being significantly widespread amongst Irish and Scottish stakeholders also - that it isn't a premium product. Indeed, its one of the very few things that can be done that would reach across all Welsh factions.
They believe what they believe for different reasons. The anti regions faction want to see the pro sides finished. Some of the Regions/Club fans want a complete break with union ownership. They're not going to change their opinion on foot of a few marquee players. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that the biggest beneficiaries are the Irish teams from such a move(in fact I think it's the most likely outcome) thus reinforcing the PrO'14 view.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles

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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by blockhead »

Some good rugby over the weekend in the Pro14. Edinburgh and Dragons in particular impressed.
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by blockhead »

https://springboks.rugby/en/articles/20 ... s-for-2020

Kings wont play agin this year. When is the Pro14/13 supposed to start?
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by blockhead »

Its back to a pro12 for this season
STATEMENT REGARDING THE SOUTHERN KINGS

PRO14 Rugby is aware of the Southern Kings voluntary decision to withdraw from any domestic competitions in South Africa for the rest of the 2020 calendar year.

Due to on-going travel restrictions enforced by the South African government against the backdrop of the Covid-19 pandemic, it is not foreseen that any cross-border Guinness PRO14 games involving South Africa teams will take place until 2021. PRO14 Rugby remains in discussion with SA Rugby on when South African participation in the league can resume in the new year.

Work is already underway to concentrate the opening 2020/21 fixtures among the 12 European-based clubs.
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by neill_m »

2020/21 season scheduled to start 1st weekend of October. I wonder will we see a 22 game structure with no conferences or the conference structure is kept for a 18 game season?

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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by blockhead »

neill_m wrote:
August 25th, 2020, 7:49 pm
2020/21 season scheduled to start 1st weekend of October. I wonder will we see a 22 game structure with no conferences or the conference structure is kept for a 18 game season?
The Scots and Italians would like the extra derby retained I'd say.
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by heno »

18 game makes sense with the compressed timeline due to the late start.

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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by Wanderers FC »

Would it make sense to drop the Welsh altogether and start a rainbow League with the Argies based in Spain, Italians and Saffas? Best to build these links with the Welsh constantly floundering. I think CVC will have a part to play but we still have options by bringing as many other countries as possible now before the Welsh jump ship or throw a massive tantrum. The thought of games in Spain is very appealing to me altogether

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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by johng »

benefits of being a pilot?

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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by Peg Leg »

johng wrote:benefits of being a pilot?
Image

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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

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Peg Leg wrote:
johng wrote:benefits of being a pilot?
Image

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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by Peg Leg »

Peg Leg wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:
johng wrote:benefits of being a pilot?
Image

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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by johng »

Nice fone doh

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