Pro 14 - General Thread

[Peg Leg]

Simon Thomas has been venting about the Pro14 again.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... p-20371137

Pulled out some figures for teams budgets, probably out of his arse, but anyhow

They beat a fully loaded Munster 16-6 in last month's final, without even starting big hitters like Johnny Sexton, Tadhg Furlong or James Lowe.

That speaks volumes for the quality of their squad, a by-product of a playing budget of €13m (£11.31) ,to quote the figure used by Scarlets chief executive Simon Muderack last week.
If you look at the Welsh playing budgets, the Scarlets are on £8m, Cardiff Blues £6.8m, the Ospreys around £6.3m and the Dragons £4.8m.

The last time I enquired, Glasgow and Edinburgh were somewhere between £6m and £7m. Guesstimates on the other three Irish provinces range from £6m to £9m. It’s hard to be exact given the opaque nature of the IRFU accounts.
In the Premiership, they have a wage cap.
It’s currently set at £6.4m, plus two marquee players. That will go down to £5m for next season.

Notice how the Leinster figure is in Euros while all comparisons are in Sterling just to make the gap seem bigger. I added the £ figure.

Well his conclusion about Leinster is accurate. Not sure why he doesn't wrap it up here:

What followed was sustained financial support from the IRFU over a number of years and the end result is there for all to see.

Leinster have become serial winners and attendances and commercial income have boomed, adding yet more money to the pot.

[ronk]

Simon Thomas has been venting about the Pro14 again.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... p-20371137

Pulled out some figures for teams budgets, probably out of his arse, but anyhow

They beat a fully loaded Munster 16-6 in last month's final, without even starting big hitters like Johnny Sexton, Tadhg Furlong or James Lowe.

That speaks volumes for the quality of their squad, a by-product of a playing budget of €13m (£11.31) ,to quote the figure used by Scarlets chief executive Simon Muderack last week.
If you look at the Welsh playing budgets, the Scarlets are on £8m, Cardiff Blues £6.8m, the Ospreys around £6.3m and the Dragons £4.8m.

The last time I enquired, Glasgow and Edinburgh were somewhere between £6m and £7m. Guesstimates on the other three Irish provinces range from £6m to £9m. It’s hard to be exact given the opaque nature of the IRFU accounts.
In the Premiership, they have a wage cap.
It’s currently set at £6.4m, plus two marquee players. That will go down to £5m for next season.

Notice how the Leinster figure is in Euros while all comparisons are in Sterling just to make the gap seem bigger. I added the £ figure.

Why aren't the Welsh regions doing much better when their playing budgets compare so well with the England teams? At least according to the above.

If Scarlets are spending Saracens levels of money then there are bigger problems than us.

I immediately am skeptical of those figures.

[Dexter]

Simon Thomas has been venting about the Pro14 again.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... p-20371137

Pulled out some figures for teams budgets, probably out of his arse, but anyhow

They beat a fully loaded Munster 16-6 in last month's final, without even starting big hitters like Johnny Sexton, Tadhg Furlong or James Lowe.

That speaks volumes for the quality of their squad, a by-product of a playing budget of €13m (£11.31) ,to quote the figure used by Scarlets chief executive Simon Muderack last week.
If you look at the Welsh playing budgets, the Scarlets are on £8m, Cardiff Blues £6.8m, the Ospreys around £6.3m and the Dragons £4.8m.

The last time I enquired, Glasgow and Edinburgh were somewhere between £6m and £7m. Guesstimates on the other three Irish provinces range from £6m to £9m. It’s hard to be exact given the opaque nature of the IRFU accounts.
In the Premiership, they have a wage cap.
It’s currently set at £6.4m, plus two marquee players. That will go down to £5m for next season.

Notice how the Leinster figure is in Euros while all comparisons are in Sterling just to make the gap seem bigger. I added the £ figure.

Why aren't the Welsh regions doing much better when their playing budgets compare so well with the England teams? At least according to the above.

If Scarlets are spending Saracens levels of money then there are bigger problems than us.

I immediately am skeptical of those figures.

Just to clarify: he got the supposed Leinster playing budget from a quote by the Scarlets CEO??

[hugonaut]

Simon Thomas has been venting about the Pro14 again.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... p-20371137

Pulled out some figures for teams budgets, probably out of his arse, but anyhow



Notice how the Leinster figure is in Euros while all comparisons are in Sterling just to make the gap seem bigger. I added the £ figure.

Why aren't the Welsh regions doing much better when their playing budgets compare so well with the England teams? At least according to the above.

If Scarlets are spending Saracens levels of money then there are bigger problems than us.

I immediately am skeptical of those figures.

Just to clarify: he got the supposed Leinster playing budget from a quote by the Scarlets CEO??

Yep. A lad who is less than a year in the door: https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/56664418

[JB1973]

Leinster can spend a billion euro if you want to, it's none of our business and it doesn't impact and how we spend our money

What we need to focus on is the very clear pathway and template that has been set up by leinster and it's one the regions need to follow imo

Follow the example you have set having a player pathway via local schools and clubs and getting pro level coaching and s&c advice into that level of rugby. This then generates not only players who are good enough to be first teams and internationals but also a pool of players underneath that can step in and there is hardly any difference in quality

Augment that with one or two top class overseas players who come in and quality experience and leadership to the group (see fardy and even more so isa)

I am hopeful that Ruddock has worked closely enough with leinster to bring in a similar type of project here, he has already started to with tie ins to llandovery college and Swansea university

We don't have anything like the number of quality of fee paying schools the Dublin area has but we do have lots of talented rugby players (as do all the regions if I'm honest) and if we can keep everyone we produce in our region we will have a very competitive squad

[Dave Cahill]

Are Wales unsuccessful?

It depends what the WRU want from the professional game.

If the goal is to win Six Nations championships and be successful at world cups, then they have it nailed. In fact the rest of the Six Nations look pretty sh!t in comparison.

Now, the commentariat - be they media, fans or former players - may want more from the regions or a million other strands of the politics of rugby in wales, but all that matters in the end is what the WRU want. I wonder, do they have a strategic plan - it would be interesting to read and see how achievement is matching THEIR goals

[JB1973]

Team Wales is the main thing that concerns most rugby supporters in wales, the WRU know if that team wales is playing well and winning games the public is off their back, the national stadium remains full , sponsors will come on board and merchandise will sell

That is what their main focus is on, if team wales are winning then the WRU don't really seem to care how the regions are doing just as long as they are producing players for team wales.

I am as passionate about the regional game , the grass roots game as I am about the national team but I'm also realistic and I get that the main focus and main goal is always going to be on a successful senior national side

As you say the WRU will consider the regional era to be a great success and no matter how much that upsets the regional season ticket holders and the journos who cover their games, they have a pretty solid argument to back that view up

[ronk]

Leo works very hard to rotate and plan for development. You especially see this when there's a change and someone gets fast tracked.

The core of Irish provincial success is picking technically sound young coaches and mandating development ahead of results. That's when we're successful. Getting players ready for internationals means they have to be as fit, as used to the intensity and as well looked after.

In Leinster's case we also made risky coaching signings and changed the structures to suit the coaching team, rather than making them fit.

[JB1973]

gave the blues a good hiding on the weekend and the dragons gave the scarlets one

in fairness the blues and the scarlets teams had less first teamers but both looked very weak especially in defence

john davies had a shocker at 12 and looks like north has done his cruciate

good to see Treviso get a win , Glasgow having a shocking season

[Dave Cahill]

and looks like north has done his cruciate

Saw that, looked like a bad one alright, no contact, just trying to step a guy - reminded me of Felipe in Croke Park

[FLIP]

Ospreys and Swansea City have announced a new sponsor for the Liberty Stadium, it will now be the Swansea.com Stadium.

I guess it'll only be the Library Stadium in spirit only going forward

[JB1973]

Ospreys and Swansea City have announced a new sponsor for the Liberty Stadium, it will now be the Swansea.com Stadium.

I guess it'll only be the Library Stadium in spirit only going forward

The guy behind Swansea.com is the guy who used to own the Swansea city football team until he sold out to the yanks.

I have a feeling this could be part of him lining himself to take them back over , not sure how many games we will be playing there this year

Personally I prefer the older rugby grounds like the Gnoll and ST Helens, they have not have much in the way of facilities but at least they are proper rugby grounds

Scott Williams has gone back to the scarlets , tbh he was a bit of a disaster for us so not sad to see him go

The welsh sides haven't done huge business in terms of player recruitment, we have brought in Tom Francis Cuthbert and Taione from Exeter , Michael Collins from otago, Jac Morgan from the scarlets , and then some punts in the irish lads regan and Hickey plus two wales under 20 caps in knott (centre and warren (a prop)

Anscombe is back in full training if he gets fit could really help us behind the scrum

It would be nice to know some fixtures and who and where we are playing though

[Keith]

Ospreys and Swansea City have announced a new sponsor for the Liberty Stadium, it will now be the Swansea.com Stadium.

I guess it'll only be the Library Stadium in spirit only going forward

The guy behind Swansea.com is the guy who used to own the Swansea city football team until he sold out to the yanks.

I have a feeling this could be part of him lining himself to take them back over , not sure how many games we will be playing there this year

Personally I prefer the older rugby grounds like the Gnoll and ST Helens, they have not have much in the way of facilities but at least they are proper rugby grounds

Scott Williams has gone back to the scarlets , tbh he was a bit of a disaster for us so not sad to see him go

The welsh sides haven't done huge business in terms of player recruitment, we have brought in Tom Francis Cuthbert and Taione from Exeter , Michael Collins from otago, Jac Morgan from the scarlets , and then some punts in the irish lads regan and Hickey plus two wales under 20 caps in knott (centre and warren (a prop)

Anscombe is back in full training if he gets fit could really help us behind the scrum

It would be nice to know some fixtures and who and where we are playing though

Good luck in the season ahead. The league needs a strong Ospreys team.

[JB1973]

Thanks I still think we are a way off challenging for trophys but would be nice to finish as the top welsh region this year

Will be interesting to see how Treviso go after their rainbow cup win, or if that says more about how seriously the big sides took the tournament

[ronk]

I think it says more about how Treviso have been taking the Pro14 and HC.

When they had a chance due to one off fixtures they suddenly were a far better team.

They know that in a longer tournament the top teams will lift it to overcome a challenge.