Pro 14 - General Thread

[Keith]

One good thing about the SA potentially coming on board is it will make the Welsh less relevant. Just the other day I heard some welsh commentators talking about how the Aviva premiership is "miles better" and others asking if Nick Tomkins will be as good now that he's playing in a lower standard league. At this stage they're just making things up as they go along. Even if the standard is lower, at least get behind your own league or at least stop knocking it.


At the end of the day they're doing most harm to themselves but they're a loose cannon in some ways. Thats a good reason for the IRFU/pro14 to have closer ties with more countries like Italy and SA.


The irony about the Welsh talking about the standard of the pro14 is their players get harder matches coming up against Irish sides than vice versa. Tomkins played the other week against Leinster. I'm not sure exactly how good the 4 big SA teams are but they should definitely raise the overall standard which will be good for Irish rugby.

It's a bit like how Irish football fans talk about the league of Ireland. Constantly talking down the domestic league and longing for the league across the water. Than they wonder why their teams are poorly supporter and why they can't do well in Europe.

[Dave Cahill]

Considering if finished 3-6 and was played in what from the start at least were atrocious conditions, Scarlets v Edinburgh was a really enjoyable game to watch

[IanD]

Considering if finished 3-6 and was played in what from the start at least were atrocious conditions, Scarlets v Edinburgh was a really enjoyable game to watch

Glad I was not the only one. I think I enjoyed it because the close score gave every phase a certain jeopardy.

What did you think of the Red Card?

3 second rows sent off for Scarlets in 3 matches.

[Dave Cahill]

Definite Red. Those reds are actually the hardest to give, where there is no intent or malice in the action - he could have given a yellow and no one would really have complained - but on the framework it's clearly a red so he made the right call.

[enby]

So far this season, the record of Irish teams is won 16 lost 1. There is a fundamental problem with this league. Every now and then one Welsh or Scottish side has a good year or two before dropping back into their usual mediocrity. The rugby public in those countries is indifferent and doesn't demand success from the club sides who seem happy to drift along as perennial also-rans. This is reflected in the consistently dreadful attendance numbers over the years. The Italians offer nothing. The fact is that the league is, and has almost always been, not competitive and there is little reason to believe that this situation is going to change. In fact the widespread financial damage wreaked by covid will probably only worsen the situation.

Is there a solution to this ongoing problem? Presumably the English clubs wouldn't be interested in our provinces having a slice of their pie. The CVC deals probably complicate any such development in any case. Some imagination at union level is needed to pave a way forward

[dropkick]

So far this season, the record of Irish teams is won 16 lost 1. There is a fundamental problem with this league. Every now and then one Welsh or Scottish side has a good year or two before dropping back into their usual mediocrity. The rugby public in those countries is indifferent and doesn't demand success from the club sides who seem happy to drift along as perennial also-rans. This is reflected in the consistently dreadful attendance numbers over the years. The Italians offer nothing. The fact is that the league is, and has almost always been, not competitive and there is little reason to believe that this situation is going to change. In fact the widespread financial damage wreaked by covid will probably only worsen the situation.

Is there a solution to this ongoing problem? Presumably the English clubs wouldn't be interested in our provinces having a slice of their pie. The CVC deals probably complicate any such development in any case. Some imagination at union level is needed to pave a way forward

I think Irish teams would pay for themselves if they joined up with the English.


The italians fans are alright imo. They get a hardcore few thousand who show up despite never been very good. The Scots are supporting their teams. Glasgow's problem is their stadium is too small while edinburgh has the opposite problem but are building a new stadium. Once the Scottish teams got good, fans turned up. I can see the same happening with the italians teams but it will take a while yet.


The hope for the league is the 4 south african sides. They will make the league stronger and we should see many more competitive matches. But yeah, it's very lobsided towards Irish teams now especially Leinsters running away with it. The Welsh regions are very weak but the extra internationals now are not helping.

[heno]

One of the biggest things we need to see for the pro14 is what happens with Wales post gatland.
Rugby logic is that you need to use the Pro 14 as a base for success for the national team.
Ireland has successful Pro 14 teams and success at national level.
Scotland has seen impovements in both.
Italy has had neither.
Wales was the outlier that constant poor performance in the pro 14 and Europe did not seem to detract from success at national level.
So was gatland single handedly holding back the tide? If Wales go into a 3 to 5 year slump now, that might see a reordering of priorities and more focus put on the league. Or not. Let's see.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[blockhead]

TBH I've forgotten the qualification rules for next years Heino. Are both Scottish teams now out of the Tournament?

[neill_m]

TBH I've forgotten the qualification rules for next years Heino. Are both Scottish teams now out of the Tournament?

Glasgow can catch Ospreys, 10 points behind with spare game v Benetton. They host Ospreys on Friday.

Edinburgh in 5th in B, but with 2 spare games on Cardiff in 4th so not out of contention yet.

If they return to 20 team structure then, then top 3 in each conference and best 4th gets in. 20th spot goes to side whose performance in Heiny/Challenge Cup gets them in if they have missed out via league.

24 team structure, would be top 4 in each conference.

[Fireworks]

It is of course great to see leinster winning the league on a regular basis but we have now reached the point where it is a devalued prize. We have reached a point where we expect 5 points from the majority of games. Hopefully the SA teams will help.

I do think that a second division with relegation might help. Not sure if there are enough teams around Europe for it but I think we are producing enough quality bodies each year to stock a few extra squads. Quiet possible that I am talking b@ll@x but there is nothing new there.

[Peg Leg]

It is of course great to see leinster winning the league on a regular basis but we have now reached the point where it is a devalued prize. We have reached a point where we expect 5 points from the majority of games. Hopefully the SA teams will help.

I do think that a second division with relegation might help. Not sure if there are enough teams around Europe for it but I think we are producing enough quality bodies each year to stock a few extra squads. Quiet possible that I am talking b@ll@x but there is nothing new there.

“History is filled with the sound of silken slippers going downstairs and wooden shoes coming up.” -Voltaire

[blockhead]

Honestly, what is with this guilt of winning?
Extended periods of dominance in sport is the norm.It happens everywhere, in every sport!
Federer has never expressed concern for his sport due to his multiple titles.
Tiger Woods time is seen as a golden era in golf.
This is our time, well our 2nd time. Enjoy it, make the most of it.
Remember how you felt when we lost to Saracens in the 2019 final? Do you want to feel like that all the time? Because that is the alternative.
In my lifetime I have only heard this "worry for the future of the sport" type concern about the dominance of a particular team/individual twice.
Leinster and the Dubs.
Spot the narrative?

[Ruckedtobits]

Honestly, what is with this guilt of winning?
Extended periods of dominance in sport is the norm.It happens everywhere, in every sport!
Federer has never expressed concern for his sport due to his multiple titles.
Tiger Woods time is seen as a golden era in golf.
This is our time, well our 2nd time. Enjoy it, make the most of it.
Remember how you felt when we lost to Saracens in the 2019 final? Do you want to feel like that all the time? Because that is the alternative.
In my lifetime I have only heard this "worry for the future of the sport" type concern about the dominance of a particular team/individual twice.
Leinster and the Dubs.
Spot the narrative?

+1
That narrative is never heard in Ajax, was only heard in Scotland in the last decade from Rangers supporters and wasn't mentioned when Bayern were dominating the Bundesliga or Barcelona, La Liga.

This is our time. The Leinster organisation is in the middle of a thick vein of winning form, part discovered, part nurtured, part mined. We should not be apologetic about the prowess of our Coaches, our Squad and our organisation. This wasn't handed to us on a plate. Think about the decade up to 2009 and how quickly the performances disintegrated under MO'C. We appeared to have the same raw materials but we could hardly buy an important victory.

We've got the formula largely correct at present but it won't always be like this. Enjoy it

[Oldschool]

Honestly, what is with this guilt of winning?
Extended periods of dominance in sport is the norm.It happens everywhere, in every sport!
Federer has never expressed concern for his sport due to his multiple titles.
Tiger Woods time is seen as a golden era in golf.
This is our time, well our 2nd time. Enjoy it, make the most of it.
Remember how you felt when we lost to Saracens in the 2019 final? Do you want to feel like that all the time? Because that is the alternative.
In my lifetime I have only heard this "worry for the future of the sport" type concern about the dominance of a particular team/individual twice.
Leinster and the Dubs.
Spot the narrative?

Plus 1.
The answer to other side of the narrative coin is - Great coaches making the most of the talent available to them.

[Dexter]

Honestly, what is with this guilt of winning?
Extended periods of dominance in sport is the norm.It happens everywhere, in every sport!
Federer has never expressed concern for his sport due to his multiple titles.
Tiger Woods time is seen as a golden era in golf.
This is our time, well our 2nd time. Enjoy it, make the most of it.
Remember how you felt when we lost to Saracens in the 2019 final? Do you want to feel like that all the time? Because that is the alternative.
In my lifetime I have only heard this "worry for the future of the sport" type concern about the dominance of a particular team/individual twice.
Leinster and the Dubs.
Spot the narrative?

Completely!
I can understand fans of other teams saying it, purely out if frustration, or the media, because they're just like that unless it's Munster, but Leinster supporters? No idea.

[neill_m]

Twitter speculation that the new shiny Pro 16 will be on Sky Sports.

[neill_m]

So Scarlets join Leinster, Ulster, Munster, Connacht and Ospreys in Heineken Cup for season 21/22. Cardiff Blues and Glasgow/Dragons could also qualify, once they confirm whether it is 6, 7 or 8 sides who qualify.

[neill_m]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4519173

RTE apparently for Pro 16 tv rights next season.

[blockhead]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4519173

RTE apparently for Pro 16 tv rights next season.

For all you Shinners on here who won't pay for nuttin.

The Guinness Pro 14 could return to terrestrial television next season with RTÉ strong contenders to take over the tournament’s primary broadcasting rights in the Republic of Ireland following Eir Sport’s decision not to renew when their current contract expires at the end of the season.

Eir issued a statement last week confirming that the current Eir Sport business model was no longer viable and that the company was exploring future options for the service. The closure of licensed premises had “fundamentally changed the commercial model for subscription-based sports broadcasters” with television and content revenue falling from €22 million to €12 million.

Eir confirmed that they had not taken part in the latest round of sporting rights auctions but added that “we are currently exploring options for the future of Eir Sport”.

The expectation is that RTÉ would join TG4 and potentially Premier Sports, both of whom currently broadcast Pro 14 matches while BBC and S4C are expected to agree rights to some live matches in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

RTÉ’s current rugby content revolves around the live broadcast of the women’s and under-20s Six Nations matches as well as the Against the Head programme. They lost the live broadcast rights to the Six Nations following the 2017 tournament to TV3 (now Virgin Media), a four-season contract (2018-2021) that is currently up for renegotiation.

It is seven years since RTÉ (2014) was last involved with the Pro 14 but there would be an appetite among the general public, certainly from a financial standpoint, to have the tournament back on terrestrial television, especially one that will benefit from the proposed introduction of the four South African franchises – the Bulls, Lions, Sharks and Stormers – next season.

[Avenger]

I for one hope they don't get it as their coverage it dreadful plus they'd probably show one game a week plus a highlights program.