Ulster 2017 - 2018

[rooster]

It has been said this new coaching setup will be in conjunction with IRFU the way it has been described it sounded like Nucifora and Schmidt would have a big say in the decision and it seems a short list is almost ready to start interviews.
After hearing such things before though I will believe it when it happens.
It is new territory for Ulster as previous head coaches didn't pick their team but used whoever was already there but this time we just have Peel left with 1 year on his contract and in my opinion they should pay him off and let new head coach pick his own.

[Peg Leg]

It has been said this new coaching setup will be in conjunction with IRFU the way it has been described it sounded like Nucifora and Schmidt would have a big say in the decision and it seems a short list is almost ready to start interviews.
After hearing such things before though I will believe it when it happens.
It is new territory for Ulster as previous head coaches didn't pick their team but used whoever was already there but this time we just have Peel left with 1 year on his contract and in my opinion they should pay him off and let new head coach pick his own.

It's been an interesting few years for the IRFU with regards to the provinces, a serious focus on Building Connacht whilst supporting Munster financially, followed by the engagement with Munsters board after Penney, followed by the MOC debacle whilst supporting Munster financially and now this, whilst supporting South Africa financially.
There is a lot to be said for this system.

[darkside lighteside]

The smart thing is for all parties to lie low as possible.
JS is not obliged to include anybody in his squad so that's one issue out of the way.
The IRFU/Ulster have to be seen to behave in accordance with the wording in the lad's contracts, no doubt that's already been well investigated.
The lads should quietly obtain jobs abroad with as little fuss as possible.
A couple of announcements in that regard on April's Day would be perfect timing and to be quite honest appropriate.

I agree with the first part - the best thing the IRFU can do now is let the heat come out of the situation. One thing that very much bears remembering is that Twitter does not equal the real world. I follow British political twitter very closely and this is something that is very frequently borne out - something will give rise to an almighty firestorm on twitter, with everyone drawing all kinds of apocalyptic readings from it, and then in the real world... absolutely nothing happens... brief flash in the mainstream media, polls don't budge, forgotten within a week. So I think it would be very unwise of the IRFU to over-react to a social media storm.

As for the IRFU 'having to be seen to behave in accordance with...the lad's contracts' - respectfully no, they absolutely have to very strictly adhere to their employment contracts and Northern Irish employment law and regulations, no 'being seen to' about it... What can the IRFU review here? They have no competence or jurisdiction to revisit any aspect of the criminal proceedings, so presumably they will just deal with the unsavoury private messages, within the framework of the IRFU's standard disciplinary procedures. I honestly don't know the legal implications of this all - but the lads hardass solicitors certainly will..

I thought the statements by the players yesterday were very interesting - Jackson's explicitly stated a desire to return to play for Ulster and Ireland, and Olding's implicitly. Unless I'm missing some legal choreography here, this seems to put to bed any idea that there is a pre-determined deal for them to exit stage left. And having made these public statements in advance of the IRFU review, I struggle to see how the IRFU can force them out, if indeed that is what they want to do. For example, I don't see any way in which the IRFU can legally say that they would never be picked for Ireland again.

How to soft-land this then? Take a couple of weeks to trundle through the disciplinary process, arrive at a sanction in line with that previously dealt out for similar infractions, get them back in training, hit the ground running in the next pre-season..

[darkside lighteside]

as for coaches, we need a fresh start - so for me nobody with any historical baggage with Ulster, absolutely across the board. So no Davidson, Harrison, McLaughlin, Anderson. No to O'Sullivan - just no.

Some interesting names on this thread, but not the most interesting that has been mooted so far - Shaun Edwards...

[Dave Cahill]

I think that Ulster and the IRFU need to get them back on the pitch as soon as possible. There is going to be a whole lot of hoopla whenever their first appearance is, so why not get it over with this season rather than have it drag into next year. No point in starting a new season with this hanging over it, with a new coach having to deal with it. Get them back playing, then they have the benefit of being available for the Australia tour where they can get back into the Ireland fold on the other side of the world which will minimise that hoopla

[rooster]

I think that Ulster and the IRFU need to get them back on the pitch as soon as possible. There is going to be a whole lot of hoopla whenever their first appearance is, so why not get it over with this season rather than have it drag into next year. No point in starting a new season with this hanging over it, with a new coach having to deal with it. Get them back playing, then they have the benefit of being available for the Australia tour where they can get back into the Ireland fold on the other side of the world which will minimise that hoopla

My thought as well Dave, you must be thinking with an ulster brain there !

[Dave Cahill]

More with my 'control the story, control the fallout' brain!

[rooster]

More with my 'control the story, control the fallout' brain!

True, I have had that opinion from the start, IRFU have followed the case better than any of us and all they needed was 2 prepared statements and come out with whichever suited at the start, it would have got mixed in with the rest of the cr@p and the press will be back talking about Trump and a big boobed blonde by Monday

[Flash Gordon]

I think that Ulster and the IRFU need to get them back on the pitch as soon as possible. There is going to be a whole lot of hoopla whenever their first appearance is, so why not get it over with this season rather than have it drag into next year. No point in starting a new season with this hanging over it, with a new coach having to deal with it. Get them back playing, then they have the benefit of being available for the Australia tour where they can get back into the Ireland fold on the other side of the world which will minimise that hoopla

It's a hard one to shake off. I am a Sheffield United fan (yeah yeah, I know......) and we had a very similar situation when Ched Evans was found not guilty of rape but clearly engaged in some fairly sordid debauchery that went public. The Blades were in discussions to re-sign him, we had a pile of shite thrown at the club from politicians, journalists, celebs etc so that that they had to let the opportunity go even though the club's football people wanted him signed. It was just too big a commercial and reputational risk. As someone who has bought rugby sponsorship, I would think very carefully about having my brand live in a world where not only this behaviour is (in the opinion of many people) effectively condoned but you are likely to see ongoing protest and coverage.

I assume the IRFU hold his contract in which case it might be smarter to offload him in an exchange deal for Madigan to Bristol which, assuming Jackson is out of the Ireland frame for the foreseeable, might be better for Ireland.

[Dave Cahill]

It's a hard one to shake off. I am a Sheffield United fan (yeah yeah, I know......) and we had a very similar situation when Ched Evans was found not guilty of rape but clearly engaged in some fairly sordid debauchery that went public. The Blades were in discussions to re-sign him, we had a pile of shite thrown at the club from politicians, journalists, celebs etc so that that they had to let the opportunity go even though the club's football people wanted him signed. It was just too big a commercial and reputational risk. As someone who has bought rugby sponsorship, I would think very carefully about having my brand live in a world where not only this behaviour is (in the opinion of many people) effectively condoned but you are likely to see ongoing protest and coverage.

I assume the IRFU hold his contract in which case it might be smarter to offload him in an exchange deal for Madigan to Bristol which, assuming Jackson is out of the Ireland frame for the foreseeable, might be better for Ireland.

Ultimately all they've done is engage in legal, non-traditional sexual behaviour and bragged about it. If brands stayed away from that then there would be no sponsorship of sport. Or anything. Money is more forgiving than Jesus. The Ched Evans case is different, he was found guilty and the shite was thrown when SU were thinking about signing him after his release from prison, when he was still a convicted rapist, before his conviction was quashed. Once his conviction was quashed however he signed for...

[Jackie Brown]

I think that Ulster and the IRFU need to get them back on the pitch as soon as possible. There is going to be a whole lot of hoopla whenever their first appearance is, so why not get it over with this season rather than have it drag into next year. No point in starting a new season with this hanging over it, with a new coach having to deal with it. Get them back playing, then they have the benefit of being available for the Australia tour where they can get back into the Ireland fold on the other side of the world which will minimise that hoopla

It's a hard one to shake off. I am a Sheffield United fan (yeah yeah, I know......) and we had a very similar situation when Ched Evans was found not guilty of rape but clearly engaged in some fairly sordid debauchery that went public. The Blades were in discussions to re-sign him, we had a pile of shite thrown at the club from politicians, journalists, celebs etc so that that they had to let the opportunity go even though the club's football people wanted him signed. It was just too big a commercial and reputational risk. As someone who has bought rugby sponsorship, I would think very carefully about having my brand live in a world where not only this behaviour is (in the opinion of many people) effectively condoned but you are likely to see ongoing protest and coverage.

I assume the IRFU hold his contract in which case it might be smarter to offload him in an exchange deal for Madigan to Bristol which, assuming Jackson is out of the Ireland frame for the foreseeable, might be better for Ireland.

Madigan can feck off

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[offshorerules]

There's a rumour going about that Jackson and Olding are both going to Exeter. Unconfirmed though.

[CiaranIrl]

There's a rumour going about that Jackson and Olding are both going to Exeter. Unconfirmed though.

Yeah, that's what I've heard too.

[Flash Gordon]

It's a hard one to shake off. I am a Sheffield United fan (yeah yeah, I know......) and we had a very similar situation when Ched Evans was found not guilty of rape but clearly engaged in some fairly sordid debauchery that went public. The Blades were in discussions to re-sign him, we had a pile of shite thrown at the club from politicians, journalists, celebs etc so that that they had to let the opportunity go even though the club's football people wanted him signed. It was just too big a commercial and reputational risk. As someone who has bought rugby sponsorship, I would think very carefully about having my brand live in a world where not only this behaviour is (in the opinion of many people) effectively condoned but you are likely to see ongoing protest and coverage.

I assume the IRFU hold his contract in which case it might be smarter to offload him in an exchange deal for Madigan to Bristol which, assuming Jackson is out of the Ireland frame for the foreseeable, might be better for Ireland.

Ultimately all they've done is engage in legal, non-traditional sexual behaviour and bragged about it. If brands stayed away from that then there would be no sponsorship of sport. Or anything. Money is more forgiving than Jesus. The Ched Evans case is different, he was found guilty and the shite was thrown when SU were thinking about signing him after his release from prison, when he was still a convicted rapist, before his conviction was quashed. Once his conviction was quashed however he signed for...

Chesterfield! He had to wait for a year and a half before he came back. And professional soccer is arguably the most morally bankrupt sport on the planet. Money is important and I think signing Jackson would cost them money.

Not going into the case as I think public social media "debate" on this on both sides of the argument has been shameful but I wouldn't agree with your assessment of what they have done. As a sponsor, given the plethora of options available I wouldn't touch them with barge pole.

Anyway, we'll see but the Exeter rumour is repeating itself and might be better for all parties concerned. With regard to Joe, leaving aside what he feels about the events, I think he'd hate the lack of focus that Jackson's inclusion would bring.

[sunshiner1]

In terms of coaching next year I'd be on the phone asking the Kurt McQuilkin if he fancies a year up north. Have him defence coach along with Jared Payne and let Payne transition over to a full time coach the year after.

[Oldschool]

It's a hard one to shake off. I am a Sheffield United fan (yeah yeah, I know......) and we had a very similar situation when Ched Evans was found not guilty of rape but clearly engaged in some fairly sordid debauchery that went public. The Blades were in discussions to re-sign him, we had a pile of shite thrown at the club from politicians, journalists, celebs etc so that that they had to let the opportunity go even though the club's football people wanted him signed. It was just too big a commercial and reputational risk. As someone who has bought rugby sponsorship, I would think very carefully about having my brand live in a world where not only this behaviour is (in the opinion of many people) effectively condoned but you are likely to see ongoing protest and coverage.

I assume the IRFU hold his contract in which case it might be smarter to offload him in an exchange deal for Madigan to Bristol which, assuming Jackson is out of the Ireland frame for the foreseeable, might be better for Ireland.

Ultimately all they've done is engage in legal, non-traditional sexual behaviour and bragged about it. If brands stayed away from that then there would be no sponsorship of sport. Or anything. Money is more forgiving than Jesus. The Ched Evans case is different, he was found guilty and the shite was thrown when SU were thinking about signing him after his release from prison, when he was still a convicted rapist, before his conviction was quashed. Once his conviction was quashed however he signed for...

Chesterfield! He had to wait for a year and a half before he came back. And professional soccer is arguably the most morally bankrupt sport on the planet. Money is important and I think signing Jackson would cost them money.

Not going into the case as I think public social media "debate" on this on both sides of the argument has been shameful but I wouldn't agree with your assessment of what they have done. As a sponsor, given the plethora of options available I wouldn't touch them with barge pole.

Anyway, we'll see but the Exeter rumour is repeating itself and might be better for all parties concerned. With regard to Joe, leaving aside what he feels about the events, I think he'd hate the lack of focus that Jackson's inclusion would bring.

The IRFU have contractual obligations to their players.
They must also be aware of bargepole and sponsors syndrome.
There is merit in getting the lads back onto the park and getting past nine day wonder syndrome.
However I'd be gobsmacked if the lads go to Oz.
The lads have decisions to make too.
They won't/can't be fired but there's no guarantee that they'd be re-signed.

[BlueBlue]

Players have contractual obligations to the IRFU also.

Their contracts could have been written so that bringing the game into disrepute is a breach of contract, at a minimum the contract will have been written so that there is a penalty for bringing the game into disrepute. I'm sure the IRFU / Ulster Rugby did not like what the trial generally was referred as, "The Rugby Rape Trial", not great for your brand or brands associated.

[paddyor]

Players have contractual obligations to the IRFU also.

Their contracts could have been written so that bringing the game into disrepute is a breach of contract, at a minimum the contract will have been written so that there is a penalty for bringing the game into disrepute. I'm sure the IRFU / Ulster Rugby did not like what the trial generally was referred as, "The Rugby Rape Trial", not great for your brand or brands associated.

Tell us, what else in the contract and what does it cover?

[Flash Gordon]

Players have contractual obligations to the IRFU also.

Their contracts could have been written so that bringing the game into disrepute is a breach of contract, at a minimum the contract will have been written so that there is a penalty for bringing the game into disrepute. I'm sure the IRFU / Ulster Rugby did not like what the trial generally was referred as, "The Rugby Rape Trial", not great for your brand or brands associated.

Tell us, what else in the contract and what does it cover?

I had contractual obligations regarding brand reputation written into my contract as a business person. I'd be amazed if there aren't similar clauses in rugby players' contracts, they'd be pretty common across sports professions.

[rooster]

Players have contractual obligations to the IRFU also.

Their contracts could have been written so that bringing the game into disrepute is a breach of contract, at a minimum the contract will have been written so that there is a penalty for bringing the game into disrepute. I'm sure the IRFU / Ulster Rugby did not like what the trial generally was referred as, "The Rugby Rape Trial", not great for your brand or brands associated.

I do believe that is correct and sadly I think we will lose them