Anglo - Pro 12 league

[Fireworks]

The idea of merging the pro 12 and the prl was discussed here before but I am wondering if it is now becoming a more realistic possibility. With the way the money is flowing in to France and England it is going to more and more difficult to compete in the future. Even the English teams are going to face difficulties competing with french money. I think that a combined league would make sense though it would be difficult initially to fit everyone in.

From the prl position they would get some big clubs with big fan bases to boost attendance and viewing figures while also getting some built in cross border rivalry to help build up the games. This should lead to a bigger pot of cash for everyone to share from and allow that league to compete on an equal footing with the French.

From a Pro12 side we get the cash injection and a possibly more secure future.

From an Irish point of view we get the cash and we compete against stronger opposition an a more regular basis. It would allow us to afford to finance bigger squads and more investment in academies in all four provinces which could only be good news for the Irish team.

On the negative side we would be dealing with the prl which can be toxic.

[blockhead]

I'm pretty sure they'd want us in as junior members only.

[kermischocolate]

I'm pretty sure they'd want us in as junior members only.

This.

Leinster and Munster might get invited to join, no one else would.

[Peg Leg]

I'm pretty sure they'd want us in as junior members only.

This.

Leinster and Munster might get invited to join, no one else would.

Someone on here came up with a great suggestion of a split conference system with 2 evenly split leagues of 12. With the usual play-off system to follow.
I like it tbh.

[johng]

This would be the worst possible time for such a move from a pro12 perspective. There is nothing in it for the PRL at the moment. Even if we were interested. Which only the Welsh seem to be.

[deco]

Mick Dawson interview:

...Ultimately, that will come from a remodelling of the bread and butter stuff: replacing the Pro12 and Premiership with a competition that combines the best of Ireland and Britain. This is something that appeals to the CEOs across the water because Ulster, Munster and Leinster bring fans and competitiveness and all the things that add to a better television product.

"We're happy with the Pro12 and with the meritocracy in the league. The supporters get it, the players get it, we all get it," says Dawson. "If you slip out of that top six you're in trouble. But if the game changes (to a British and Irish competition) then we have to be in it because it would mean big television money.

"For us to be competitive with the English and the French we have to get into the pan-European market TV game. This is why Sky Sports covering the Pro12 is so important for us: the fella sitting on his couch in England on a Saturday can watch Leinster play Ulster in front of 45,000 people in Aviva Stadium. That's where we get exposure and that's the only way we're going to get any money."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/c ... 34755.html

[Peg Leg]

This would be the worst possible time for such a move from a pro12 perspective. There is nothing in it for the PRL at the moment. Even if we were interested. Which only the Welsh seem to be.

I'd agree RE: timing and I am a big cheer leader for the P12. But unless the teams outside of the Irish, Ospreys & Glasgow start committing to it it's a lost cause.

[fourthirtythree]

Mick Dawson interview:

. the fella sitting on his couch in England on a Saturday can watch Leinster play Ulster in front of 45,000 people in Aviva Stadium."

l

???

[OTT]

Mick Dawson interview:

...Ultimately, that will come from a remodelling of the bread and butter stuff: replacing the Pro12 and Premiership with a competition that combines the best of Ireland and Britain. This is something that appeals to the CEOs across the water because Ulster, Munster and Leinster bring fans and competitiveness and all the things that add to a better television product.

"We're happy with the Pro12 and with the meritocracy in the league. The supporters get it, the players get it, we all get it," says Dawson. "If you slip out of that top six you're in trouble. But if the game changes (to a British and Irish competition) then we have to be in it because it would mean big television money.

"For us to be competitive with the English and the French we have to get into the pan-European market TV game. This is why Sky Sports covering the Pro12 is so important for us: the fella sitting on his couch in England on a Saturday can watch Leinster play Ulster in front of 45,000 people in Aviva Stadium. That's where we get exposure and that's the only way we're going to get any money."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/c ... 34755.html

Leinster v Ulster in the AVIVA, they must have a choose your own adventure button on Sky Sports in Britain or a sign of things to come?

[paddyor]

The idea of merging the pro 12 and the prl was discussed here before but I am wondering if it is now becoming a more realistic possibility. With the way the money is flowing in to France and England it is going to more and more difficult to compete in the future. Even the English teams are going to face difficulties competing with french money. I think that a combined league would make sense though it would be difficult initially to fit everyone in.

From the prl position they would get some big clubs with big fan bases to boost attendance and viewing figures while also getting some built in cross border rivalry to help build up the games. This should lead to a bigger pot of cash for everyone to share from and allow that league to compete on an equal footing with the French.

From a Pro12 side we get the cash injection and a possibly more secure future.

From an Irish point of view we get the cash and we compete against stronger opposition an a more regular basis. It would allow us to afford to finance bigger squads and more investment in academies in all four provinces which could only be good news for the Irish team.

On the negative side we would be dealing with the prl which can be toxic.

There was a PRL marketing fella chatiting to Simon Thomas on twitter a while back and the PRL guy said no one was talking about it. The euro agreement would be hard too get out of and is in place for 5 years. Left a few of the Welsh deflated.

I can't see the sense in it for PRL.

[JB1973]

I think it would be great if we could somehow do it but the English seem quite happy with their domestic league. I have no doubt this is the dream outcome for RRW but having already sold our pro 12 neighbours up the river last summer, you'd think even RRW would ensure that any talks are done with the consent of the whole league.

In terms of what the pro 12 sides bring to the table, clearly the big 3 irish sides have the most to offer the PRL, then I would say the welsh regions, then the scots and then the Italians (yes they do have the biggest population but how many are into their rugby?)

Would the likes of the dragons/Edinburgh be more attractive to the PRL than increasing their own league and bringing in rich clubs with a decent fan base like Bristol/Worcester.

Wouldn't the RFU be more inclined to push them towards possibly an expanded league with sides based in Yorkshire or cornwall to spread the game around England?

[olaf the fat]

The French have agreed a new TV deal for mega money - well ahead of PRL.

PRL could do with a shot of new blood to reinvigorate their TV audience. But if they kidnap 6 Pro 12 teams, realistically 6 of their clubs would diminish - turkeys voting for Christmas....

[JB1973]

The French have agreed a new TV deal for mega money - well ahead of PRL.

PRL could do with a shot of new blood to reinvigorate their TV audience. But if they kidnap 6 Pro 12 teams, realistically 6 of their clubs would diminish - turkeys voting for Christmas....

True if your say Sale or Exeter, pushing to get into the top 6 and sides like Leinster and Munster are parachuted into the league how would you feel?

It's almost commercial suicide, then again I bet the likes of craig and wray would be all over it

[jezzer]

I think it would be great if we could somehow do it but the English seem quite happy with their domestic league. I have no doubt this is the dream outcome for RRW but having already sold our pro 12 neighbours up the river last summer, you'd think even RRW would ensure that any talks are done with the consent of the whole league.

In terms of what the pro 12 sides bring to the table, clearly the big 3 irish sides have the most to offer the PRL, then I would say the welsh regions, then the scots and then the Italians (yes they do have the biggest population but how many are into their rugby?)

Would the likes of the dragons/Edinburgh be more attractive to the PRL than increasing their own league and bringing in rich clubs with a decent fan base like Bristol/Worcester.

Wouldn't the RFU be more inclined to push them towards possibly an expanded league with sides based in Yorkshire or cornwall to spread the game around England?

There's no meritocracy in the PRL, folks. Expect to get diddled by more than we just got hosed in the ECC, if we moved in.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... funds.html

[Peg Leg]

I think it would be great if we could somehow do it but the English seem quite happy with their domestic league. I have no doubt this is the dream outcome for RRW but having already sold our pro 12 neighbours up the river last summer, you'd think even RRW would ensure that any talks are done with the consent of the whole league.

In terms of what the pro 12 sides bring to the table, clearly the big 3 irish sides have the most to offer the PRL, then I would say the welsh regions, then the scots and then the Italians (yes they do have the biggest population but how many are into their rugby?)

Would the likes of the dragons/Edinburgh be more attractive to the PRL than increasing their own league and bringing in rich clubs with a decent fan base like Bristol/Worcester.

Wouldn't the RFU be more inclined to push them towards possibly an expanded league with sides based in Yorkshire or cornwall to spread the game around England?

There's no meritocracy in the PRL, folks. Expect to get diddled by more than we just got hosed in the ECC, if we moved in.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... funds.html

When BT are re-negotiating in 2016 (due for renewal 2017) they'll have lost interest in this loss leader. If Sky play their cards right the negotiations for the premiership could go the way of the ERCC sponsorship drive and the amount of funding they are likely to get will be reduced. Once the RFU tell them where to go there'll be puppy dog eyes in our direction.

At least that's how I see it!

[dropkick]

I'd take a wait and see approach before jumping into bed with the PRL no matter what the money is.

I would prefer to start a second Pro12 division and invite teams from difference countries in. Firstly I'd look to invite some team from London, Breton (who see themselves as Celts), Spain etc. A few English sides would really p!ss off the PRL.

I think the Pro 12 countries have to be more pro active and take a few risks on expanding, like they're doing in super rugby.

[jimbobjoe]

I'd take a wait and see approach before jumping into bed with the PRL no matter what the money is.

I would prefer to start a second Pro12 division and invite teams from difference countries in. Firstly I'd look to invite some team from London, Breton (who see themselves as Celts), Spain etc. A few English sides would really p!ss off the PRL.

I think the Pro 12 countries have to be more pro active and take a few risks on expanding, like they're doing in super rugby.

A team based within the borders of a union will need permission from that union to take part in an external or cross border competition. That would rule out teams from London or Breton in anything that would be seen as developmental or complimentary to the other unions/leagues.

[olaf the fat]

I'd take a wait and see approach before jumping into bed with the PRL no matter what the money is.

I would prefer to start a second Pro12 division and invite teams from difference countries in. Firstly I'd look to invite some team from London, Breton (who see themselves as Celts), Spain etc. A few English sides would really p!ss off the PRL.

I think the Pro 12 countries have to be more pro active and take a few risks on expanding, like they're doing in super rugby.

A team based within the borders of a union will need permission from that union to take part in an external or cross border competition. That would rule out teams from London or Breton in anything that would be seen as developmental or complimentary to the other unions/leagues.

You are right there, but the french and english unions may feel the owners of the current clubs are not complimentary to their own leagues either. It could be a case of throwing the baby and the bath water out, with the hope of being left with a decent bath.

[Dave Cahill]

Just wait until the final whistle of the Rugby World Cup final. There is going to be some fun the moment the RFU don't need to play nice with the clubs

[rooster]

The French have agreed a new TV deal for mega money - well ahead of PRL.

PRL could do with a shot of new blood to reinvigorate their TV audience. But if they kidnap 6 Pro 12 teams, realistically 6 of their clubs would diminish - turkeys voting for Christmas....

True if your say Sale or Exeter, pushing to get into the top 6 and sides like Leinster and Munster are parachuted into the league how would you feel?

It's almost commercial suicide, then again I bet the likes of craig and wray would be all over it

Kind of ironic that neither Bath or Saracens would be eligible to play the PRO 12 final with their meccano built home stadiums