Welsh Rugby 2014 -2015

[IanD]

For the new season and all.


Luke Charteris to stay in France because of Welsh rugby row

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/28650156

Wales lock Luke Charteris says the ongoing dispute between the Welsh Rugby Union and the nation's regions helped sway his decision to remain in France.
Charteris, 31, left relegated Perpignan for Racing Metro at the end of the 2013-14 season.
But the stand-off meant a joint WRU-Newport Gwent Dragons contract was not feasible for the 6ft 9in Charteris.
"The Dragons came in and made me an offer... but all along I wanted to go back on a central contract," he said.
After leaving Perpignan, ex-Dragon Charteris signed a two-year contract with Racing, joining Wales team-mates Jamie Roberts, Mike Phillips and Dan Lydiate.
The 48-times capped player was keen to return to Wales with the 2015 World Cup in mind.
But he said hopes of a deal with the WRU did not materialise, leaving Wales captain Sam Warburton as the only centrally contracted Wales player though he could go into the new season without a team.
"They were trying to sort out a central contract for me and that is something that I would have liked to have done, especially in the run-up to the World Cup," added Charteris.
"Unfortunately that did not work out - it was not an option.
"To be fair, the Dragons came in and made me an offer and I was very appreciative of that.
"But all along I wanted to go back on a central contract and have that sort of flexibility, or just stay in France because I loved my first two years over there and I wanted to carry on with that."
And while a return to Wales will not happen, Charteris said the "unreal" atmosphere at Top 14 games is absent at most games involving the Dragons, Cardiff Blues, Scarlets and Ospreys.
He also hinted a return to Wales at the end of the 2015-16 season was unlikely.
"The atmosphere in the games is unreal," he explained.
"And I think, unfortunately, that is something that is definitely missing in the club game back in Wales and, as a player, that makes a massive difference.
"I'd like to stay in France - it is just the lifestyle and everything outside of rugby that is so good here.
"There are not many jobs where you get to travel around and live in other countries, so I want to make the most of it for as long as I can.
"So hopefully I will extend here or stay in France."


I figured the row between Clubs and WRU had an influence on players but interesting to see it get into the public domain. Could this be the spark that puts pressure on both sides to get a resolution?

[cormac]

I suspect the departure of Roger Lewis from the WRU would go a long way towards settling the dispute between the two. If even half of what I've read about him recently is true then he has little respect either inside or outside of Wales.

The amateur clubs are up in arms over league restructuring and that looks like leading to a second EGM this year. They're facing a match against South Africa in November which they may have to cancel or play semi-pro players in. Even if they sort this mess out soon, pro rugby in Wales could be in the doldrums for some time.

[IanD]

Another player speaking out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/28683476

Scarlets: Ken Owens admits rugby row frustrates players

Scarlets: Ken Owens admits rugby row frustrates players

Scarlets hooker Ken Owens says players are frustrated by the continued failure of the Welsh Rugby Union and regions to reach an agreement over domestic rugby.
A contract between the governing body and the four regions ended on 31 June and no new deal has been announced.
The 27-year-old international admits it is a talking point for players with the season less than a month away.
"There is obviously discussion because it's all we're hearing about at the moment," he said.
"We've just got to leave it in the hands of the people at the top and they'll make a decision on what's best for Welsh rugby. Hopefully it can get sorted soon and we can all get back to talking about the rugby."
Wales second row Luke Charteris has said that the lack of a deal swayed his decision to remain in France rather than accept an offer to return to the Newport Gwent Dragons.
The WRU and Regional Rugby Wales - the body that represents the Dragons, Cardiff Blues, Ospreys and Scarlets - are currently in discussions over a new contract called the Rugby Services Agreement.
The deal would govern part of the funding of the regions and the release of players for Wales internationals and national training squads.
If a deal is not reached, the regions would not be obliged to release players for the Test against South Africa on 29 November which falls outside the International Rugby Board's Test match window.
Owens, who won his 26th Wales cap and scored a try in the 31-30 defeat against South Africa in June, hopes the row will be settled long before player release becomes an issue.
"It's completely out of the players' control at the moment and we hope that a resolution can be found and the players aren't going to end up in that difficult situation," he added.
"The focus is taken away from rugby.
"At this time of the year we should all be getting excited about the new season and how the regions are going to do, how the Welsh squad can compete against the southern hemisphere sides.
"The sooner we can get talking about the rugby the better."

[JB1973]

I suspect the departure of Roger Lewis from the WRU would go a long way towards settling the dispute between the two. If even half of what I've read about him recently is true then he has little respect either inside or outside of Wales.

The amateur clubs are up in arms over league restructuring and that looks like leading to a second EGM this year. They're facing a match against South Africa in November which they may have to cancel or play semi-pro players in. Even if they sort this mess out soon, pro rugby in Wales could be in the doldrums for some time.

The league restructure is good in theory (more local derbys, which should generate more crowds, bar takings and reduce travelling costs)

The only issue is that some sides will be playing in leagues that are far too difficult for them and the worry is that if they get hammered week in week out in mismatches players will lose interest and sides may fold.


Roger Lewis takes a load of flack and I hate the way he speak in clichés, but looking at the performance of the WRU in terms of the national team, increased income and reduced debt and you have to say like him or not he's done a top job , certainly as far as his employees go

[rooster]

I look on this as RRW being PRL Lite and the WRU don't want to make the mistakes that the RFU have in getting the power balance wrong.

[cormac]

I suspect the departure of Roger Lewis from the WRU would go a long way towards settling the dispute between the two. If even half of what I've read about him recently is true then he has little respect either inside or outside of Wales.

The amateur clubs are up in arms over league restructuring and that looks like leading to a second EGM this year. They're facing a match against South Africa in November which they may have to cancel or play semi-pro players in. Even if they sort this mess out soon, pro rugby in Wales could be in the doldrums for some time.

The league restructure is good in theory (more local derbys, which should generate more crowds, bar takings and reduce travelling costs)

The only issue is that some sides will be playing in leagues that are far too difficult for them and the worry is that if they get hammered week in week out in mismatches players will lose interest and sides may fold.


Roger Lewis takes a load of flack and I hate the way he speak in clichés, but looking at the performance of the WRU in terms of the national team, increased income and reduced debt and you have to say like him or not he's done a top job , certainly as far as his employees go

You can't praise Lewis for the performance of the national team without recognising that he's currently presiding over the decline and fall of professional rugby in Wales. At a time when all their main competitors have been increasing their financial input into the game the WRU have chosen to pay off far more debt than they needed to and reducing the funding for the sport. If you think that's doing a top job then we have very different perspectives.

Wales has produced a generation of fine players but they're in serious danger of going down the same route as the FAW right now.

[JB1973]

I suspect the departure of Roger Lewis from the WRU would go a long way towards settling the dispute between the two. If even half of what I've read about him recently is true then he has little respect either inside or outside of Wales.

The amateur clubs are up in arms over league restructuring and that looks like leading to a second EGM this year. They're facing a match against South Africa in November which they may have to cancel or play semi-pro players in. Even if they sort this mess out soon, pro rugby in Wales could be in the doldrums for some time.

The league restructure is good in theory (more local derbys, which should generate more crowds, bar takings and reduce travelling costs)

The only issue is that some sides will be playing in leagues that are far too difficult for them and the worry is that if they get hammered week in week out in mismatches players will lose interest and sides may fold.


Roger Lewis takes a load of flack and I hate the way he speak in clichés, but looking at the performance of the WRU in terms of the national team, increased income and reduced debt and you have to say like him or not he's done a top job , certainly as far as his employees go

You can't praise Lewis for the performance of the national team without recognising that he's currently presiding over the decline and fall of professional rugby in Wales. At a time when all their main competitors have been increasing their financial input into the game the WRU have chosen to pay off far more debt than they needed to and reducing the funding for the sport. If you think that's doing a top job then we have very different perspectives.

Wales has produced a generation of fine players but they're in serious danger of going down the same route as the FAW right now.

Many in Wales (myself included) would argue the death of the current regions as they stand would be a good thing long term for the game here.

A chance to start again with a proper regional set up and centrally contracted players.

At the end of the day he has offered to increase funding to help keep the top welsh players here but the regions refuse to accept central contracts or even play players who are on them. If the regions refuse this type of help it is up to them and them alone to generate extra income if they can't then how is it lewis fault?

If the WRU can increase it's income in these tough economic times, why can't the regions?

two things spring to mind
1) lewis is actually very good at his job, probably a damn sight better than the guys doing the same role at the regions

2) the regions don't appeal to enough people, mainly because 3 of the 4 or not regions.



We have very different perspectives if you think 4 sides within 60 miles of each other, 3 of whom still wear their old club kit and have their old club colours and who refuse to do anything to help any one other than themselves is a good bet for the long term future of the game in wales as a whole.

[cormac]

Where are these mythical regions going to be based? North Wales where support for rugby is limited? The Valleys where pro rugby has failed twice before? What makes you think that the villagist attitude that prevails in Wales with regard to supporting the current sides will change if they move to regions? Regions which have zero history and will start with even less support than the current sides. And that's assuming the WRU can even afford such a scheme. Even the IRFU has noted the need to try and bring in private money if it's to stay competitive at sub-international level.

The professional game is in serious difficulty in Wales and there must be serious doubts about its long-term survival.

[JB1973]

Where are these mythical regions going to be based? North Wales where support for rugby is limited? The Valleys where pro rugby has failed twice before? What makes you think that the villagist attitude that prevails in Wales with regard to supporting the current sides will change if they move to regions? Regions which have zero history and will start with even less support than the current sides. And that's assuming the WRU can even afford such a scheme. Even the IRFU has noted the need to try and bring in private money if it's to stay competitive at sub-international level.

The professional game is in serious difficulty in Wales and there must be serious doubts about its long-term survival.

I would use a common sense approach , first things first ditch any town or city name (would all of leinster flock to see the Dublin blues or all of Munster rally to see the limerick reds) secondly have new neutral kit colours .

I would have a East South and West Wales region, split the cash 3 ways and have 3 strong teams not 4 weaker ones. We may lose people on the way but the odds are we will pick up a lot more, especially if we are able to retain our better players and see more success on the field.

Up in North Wales (where 25% of the population is based) I would fund and ring fence the RGC side to ensure they get a good base in the welsh premiership and then look to build them over time into a development region.


The long term future for Wales is fine as long as it is managed correctly, welsh rugby is not 4 sides and people need to realise that

[cormac]

I simply don't see Welsh rugby supporters going to watch regional teams with no history behind them. I'm struggling to imagine Newport and Cardiff supporters combining to get behind an East Wales team based in Cardiff. Loads of the Newport support won't even get behind the Dragons because they're not "Newport" enough for them. A comparison with the Irish system is pointless IMO. The Welsh game was built on powerful club sides, the Irish game wasn't.

I simply think it would take too long to establish any new teams by which stage the professional game will have died in Wales.

[johng]

I simply don't see Welsh rugby supporters going to watch regional teams with no history behind them. I'm struggling to imagine Newport and Cardiff supporters combining to get behind an East Wales team based in Cardiff. Loads of the Newport support won't even get behind the Dragons because they're not "Newport" enough for them. A comparison with the Irish system is pointless IMO. The Welsh game was built on powerful club sides, the Irish game wasn't.

I simply think it would take too long to establish any new teams by which stage the professional game will have died in Wales.

Agreed. "New" regions will just add another layer to an already complex set of loyalties.

Something involving current regions will have to be the solution. WRU own 50% of the Dragons, that might give them some wiggle room.

Very hard to see how they bring in "Valleys Rugby" or Pontypridd supporters into the current picture. But that seems to be the one area where there is a problem. (With the current regions)

There is a possibility of bringing in a "development region" in North Wales some day. But it would be a while after the dust settles on any agreement that might come into play in the near future

[cormac]

Yeah, I don't think there's an ideal solution out there for Wales, every approach is going to have its drawbacks and alienate sections of the "rugby mad Welsh public". Perhaps a licencing system might work, with agreed funding from both the clubs and WRU and targets to be met in terms of performance and attendance. These would be renewed every 5-10 years or so and underperforming clubs would have to justify their continuing existence. It would also give other potential teams, such as North Wales or Ponty* attainable targets to meet, either to replace existing pro teams or add to the number.

* I think there's a fairly sizeable portion of the Ponty support who are happy to piss and moan about how "hard done" they are rather than put in the necessary work to give professionalism a proper go.

[JB1973]

In fairness to Ponty they have held a lot of their fan base and they are far and away the best team in the semi pro set up.

I can understand why they don't feel part of a region that is called Cardiff blues, plays every game in Cardiff and plays in Cardiff colours.

I don't many blues fans would travel to see a side called the ponty black and whites who played every home game in Sardis.

There needs to be change by both party's if this is to work out, something like changing the team to south wales, playing in a neutral colour and taking some games such as pre season friendlies or LV games to Sardis would seem a logical step.

The regions have to have a home base and logic dictates it is in the area's of the biggest population eg Cardiff,Swansea and Newport but there is no reason why these sides cannot be reflective of all their region rather than just 1 city/town.

None of this will happen though, the regions will continue to exist as they are and continue to only appeal to a small percentage of the nation and continue to wonder why their crowds remain low.


On the plus side, the blues, dragons and Scarlets all look stronger this year , however we look weaker and unless we recruit at least another second row and tight head look unlikely to make HC spots next year

[cormac]

In fairness to Ponty they have held a lot of their fan base and they are far and away the best team in the semi pro set up.

I can understand why they don't feel part of a region that is called Cardiff blues, plays every game in Cardiff and plays in Cardiff colours.

I don't many blues fans would travel to see a side called the ponty black and whites who played every home game in Sardis.

There needs to be change by both party's if this is to work out, something like changing the team to south wales, playing in a neutral colour and taking some games such as pre season friendlies or LV games to Sardis would seem a logical step.

The regions have to have a home base and logic dictates it is in the area's of the biggest population eg Cardiff,Swansea and Newport but there is no reason why these sides cannot be reflective of all their region rather than just 1 city/town.

None of this will happen though, the regions will continue to exist as they are and continue to only appeal to a small percentage of the nation and continue to wonder why their crowds remain low.


On the plus side, the blues, dragons and Scarlets all look stronger this year , however we look weaker and unless we recruit at least another second row and tight head look unlikely to make HC spots next year

Given that Cardiff Blues have allocated 20 players to the Pontypridd squad for the forthcoming season I'm wondering how they can feel little connection to the Blues "region".

http://www.ponty.net/pontypridd-rfc-blu ... m=facebook

[JB1973]

most of them are probably ponty youth products in fairness, the likes of dicomids (is an ex ponty club captain) humberstone and several others are all ex ponty rfc players.

For example Geraint Walsh was the welsh premiership player of the year last year, then the blues signed him up it was probably part of the deal that if he isn't going to be part of the blues first team for a weekend he is released back to Ponty.

[cormac]

most of them are probably ponty youth products in fairness, the likes of dicomids (is an ex ponty club captain) humberstone and several others are all ex ponty rfc players.

For example Geraint Walsh was the welsh premiership player of the year last year, then the blues signed him up it was probably part of the deal that if he isn't going to be part of the blues first team for a weekend he is released back to Ponty.

True but they're paid by Cardiff and training as full-time pros. Queers the pitch somewhat in a semi-pro league.

[JB1973]

most of them are probably ponty youth products in fairness, the likes of dicomids (is an ex ponty club captain) humberstone and several others are all ex ponty rfc players.

For example Geraint Walsh was the welsh premiership player of the year last year, then the blues signed him up it was probably part of the deal that if he isn't going to be part of the blues first team for a weekend he is released back to Ponty.

True but they're paid by Cardiff and training as full-time pros. Queers the pitch somewhat in a semi-pro league.

That's a valid point, I though there was a limit of regional players who could be named in a match day welsh premiership squad.

I have to confess I don't if that is still the case or if it applies what the number is but I'm guessing it's a lot less than 20.

I'd expect Ponty to run away with that league again, Llanelli RFC are very tight with the Scarlets region and will also have a load of regional players in their set up so will probably push them closest.

[JB1973]

the pre season games were hardly a resounding success, the blues lost at home to exeter, Worcester beat us 23 -6 and Bath and the Scarlet's drew.

Adam Jones training with Neath RFC and Warburton not being allowed to play for the blues (but at least he is training with them )

Looks like another balls up of a season ahead!

[simonokeeffe]

the pre season games were hardly a resounding success, the blues lost at home to exeter, Worcester beat us 23 -6 and Bath and the Scarlet's drew.

Adam Jones training with Neath RFC and Warburton not being allowed to play for the blues (but at least he is training with them )

Looks like another balls up of a season ahead!

think youre guaranteed to win the 6n so

[cormac]

the pre season games were hardly a resounding success, the blues lost at home to exeter, Worcester beat us 23 -6 and Bath and the Scarlet's drew.

Adam Jones training with Neath RFC and Warburton not being allowed to play for the blues (but at least he is training with them )

Looks like another balls up of a season ahead!

Adam Jones' value must be dropping by the day. He looked a shadow of his former self last season and seemed to struggle with the new scrum engagement. Add in the fact that he's never been the fittest of players (even by a prop's standards). Missing pre-season with a professional outfit must put a lot of question marks around when he'd be match-fit if the WRU/RRW issue is sorted.

Warburton must have been getting some really bad advice when he signed that deal with the WRU. His value to any side outside Wales is low given the number of matches he's missed in the last four seasons, and the Welsh sides were pretty clear that they weren't going to play centrally contracted players under the current agreement with the WRU.