Munster 2014/2015

[dropkick]

I don't think his decision making is that lacking. Sure there are things he needs to improve but he needs games to do that. Thats why he has left Munster. The way Munster are playing didn't help either. The biggest problem I see with him is he sometimes kicks away possession too much in good areas but that can be reigned in.


Sexton didn't break into the Leinster team until he was 23 and that was because Contepomi got injured. Sexton was surrounded by better quality and more experienced players in Leinster. Sexton isn't a steady Eddie either. He mixes the good with the bad. Last years matches against England and France for example when he got tries but made numerous decision making errors. You have to balance the positives with the negatives. Thats something Schmidt is very good at. Unfortunately for Hanrahan, Foley is a safety first, no risk kinda coach.


I saw all those U20 games and who was first choice doesn't really matter. Main thing is Hanrahan was the player of the tournament (IMO). In another match against England Cathal Marsh played 10 with Hanrahan at 12. George Ford got MOTM because England won well but Hanrahan was the stand out player.

[COYBIB]

Sexton didn't break into the Leinster team until he was 23 and that was because Contepomi got injured.

This is one of the strangest misconceptions I see / hear repeated ad nauseum, as though Sexton made his debut in the Heineken Cup semi final against Munster.

Sexton broke through when he was around 21/22, he did get his opportunity because of injury (as so many often do), but it was an injury to Gordon D'Arcy who broke his arm and was out for a good while, so Contepomi shifted to 12 and Sexton was first choice 10 at Leinster a good year and a half before that semi-final. He played in almost every single Magners League game in 2007/08 and was highly accomplished in leading Leinster to the league title that season.

The following season (2008/09) he was again a regular in the Leinster team throughout the season in the league, but was limited in his European opportunities due to Contepomi going back to first choice 10 with the return of D'Arcy.

The main issue with Sexton coming off the bench in Croke Park was that he was never Leinsters first choice place kicker, as Contepomi did the honours from 12, but with the injury to Contepomi, he was on his own. That was the nervousness that surrounded him, not because he was some wide eyed rookie coming off the bench, he was well established in Leinster at that point.

[ceemec]

It's six of one, a half dozen of the other. Sexton didn't really break into the first team until that semi final but he was heavily involved in the first team prior to it due to the versatility of others and the odd injury. He started 13 of 18 games in the ML the season before when we won the title.

I would say he was very much in the "Steady Eddie" mould when he came through. He was considered very much a controlling, kicking outhalf at first and the running, risk taking elements came after that. Our try scoring in the 2007/08 season was pretty poor but he directed play quite clinically.

Regarding Hanrahan's decision making, the kicking away of good possession would be central to that. Those are poor decisions. He is very fond of trying a big play with the boot when it's not on. The chip away to Edinburgh last season, the cross kick that was far too deep into the Ospreys 22 in the last minutes this season, the grubber against Clermont on halfway a few weeks ago. There's also a tendency to run it a little more than needed (I think he's better at bringing his centres into the game than Madigan already though). At 12 against Clermont, he tried running the ball too much and eventually got himself isolated a couple of times as Clermont wised up very quickly and forced turnover/penalty ball.

We'll agree to disagree on the U20 performances. He had an excellent, eye catching run in the JWC but, aside from that, his U20 performances were never particularly eye catching. I found him similar to Brendan Macken in so far as they went into those games with huge hype and expectation and, while they didn't play poorly, they didn't do much to set themselves out as future stars

I think he should remain at 12 for the foreseeable future. Keatley is rightly starting at outhalf for Munster. Long way to go for him obviously and he has the talent so might well become the player we all hope. As I said though, I've always found that it's rarer for flair players to develop a steady, controlling aspect than it is for a controlling outhalf to develop some off the cuff skills.

[olaf the fat]

Sexton only came to the attention of the masses of Munster fans that day, and then only for shouting at Rog ( IIRC, most were looking for the doors shortly after that )

[ceemec]

Ah, Sexton was on their radar before that, I would think. He booted Mafi in the face a month beforehand!

He was playing outhalf when we beat them both times the previous season. He started the game in the RDS and killed the game with a smart drop goal. Down in Musgrave, he came on after 30 minutes in horrific conditions and steered the ship home.

[olaf the fat]

Ah, Sexton was on their radar before that, I would think. He booted Mafi in the face a month beforehand!

He was playing outhalf when we beat them both times the previous season. He started the game in the RDS and killed the game with a smart drop goal. Down in Musgrave, he came on after 30 minutes in horrific conditions and steered the ship home.

I'd forgotten that!

Musgrave game was great night but so f%~king wet!
But the sweet part was hearing "Dublin in the rear old times" getting a blast in the changing rooms on the way out!

[kendalgerty]

Sexton didn't break into the Leinster team until he was 23 and that was because Contepomi got injured.

This is one of the strangest misconceptions I see / hear repeated ad nauseum, as though Sexton made his debut in the Heineken Cup semi final against Munster.

Sexton broke through when he was around 21/22, he did get his opportunity because of injury (as so many often do), but it was an injury to Gordon D'Arcy who broke his arm and was out for a good while, so Contepomi shifted to 12 and Sexton was first choice 10 at Leinster a good year and a half before that semi-final. He played in almost every single Magners League game in 2007/08 and was highly accomplished in leading Leinster to the league title that season.

The following season (2008/09) he was again a regular in the Leinster team throughout the season in the league, but was limited in his European opportunities due to Contepomi going back to first choice 10 with the return of D'Arcy.

The main issue with Sexton coming off the bench in Croke Park was that he was never Leinsters first choice place kicker, as Contepomi did the honours from 12, but with the injury to Contepomi, he was on his own. That was the nervousness that surrounded him, not because he was some wide eyed rookie coming off the bench, he was well established in Leinster at that point.

The first half of that is true, but the second half was a bit mnore... complicated. Sexton underwent a bit of a crisis in 2008/09 and took a big step backwards. He actually started the nightmarish game in Castres, and I think scored a try but made a fistful of errors and was yanked off at half-time. The 0-18 Munster game was another nadir. Cheika lost faith in him and even went with Isa Nacewa at 10 for the game in Wasps.

Sexton had a couple of months where he didn't feature at all, but the Munster semi-final wasn't compoletely out of the blue. In the run-up to that gam,e Cheika had started to introduce him off the bench in a handful of games and he started to show his form, often improving the attack (Contepomi was having a mediocre season). Thewre was even a bit of speculation he might start the Munster game, but it was never likely.

Anyway, the rest is history.

[leinster4life13]

*SHOTS FIRED* *SHOTS FIRED*
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/colu ... 05973.html

Why does JJ Hanrahan’s decision to leave Munster for Northampton Saints hurt so much? Because he’s one of our own, writes Ronan O’Gara.

I was born in San Diego, returned within six months, and I’m from Cork. JJ is from Kerry. If you’re born and bred in the province and you’ve lived there all your life, locals expect you to play with Munster — and with good reason.

That parochialism, mixed with a couple of wonderful acquisitions from abroad, has been one of the province’s strongest traits over the years. Think of all the people who have given everything to Munster rugby; I’d be here forever listing.

Munster won’t like that Hanrahan is leaving, and they’re damn right as he’s such a good player.

If he was average, there wouldn’t be much uproar, but he was an IRB Young Player of the Year nominee, in Limerick he was put in the same bracket as a young Paul O’Connell or Keith Earls in terms of his potential.

Also, with respect, it’s not Ian Keatley leaving. It’s not a fella who was schooled in Leinster rugby, came through their academy then played a few years in Connacht, and has done well since joining Munster. This is one of our own, so it’s hard to take.

I know JJ well. I’ve been a bit of a mentor to him ever since he came into the Munster squad, because he was a fella I identified with early on. He has a certain aura about him, and he also looked very comfortable with a ball.

He’s had a good, hard Kerry upbringing. He’s a rugged, tough player, but equally as skilful. You just know when you do passing drills with backs what a fella is about; working with him on a daily basis reveals all.

You only see about 10% on a Saturday of what players and coaches see every day. For example, certain players might have to make a tackle on their weaker shoulder once in every three games — so any flaw there gets hidden, glossed over.

It’s only in the close-up, everyday scenario that you get to see the total package and the ineptness of certain players, but JJ has very few weaknesses.

I’m biased, because I like him, I rate him, I want him to succeed. I thought when I retired he would kick on to big things at Munster, but that hasn’t happened and he’s frustrated with that. His move to Northampton is a brave one; I think it’s the first time in Munster’s history that a fella of his age — he’s 22 — and talent has decided to move abroad.

So why has it happened? Well, let’s get one thing straight. Many people talk of his versatility and ability to play in the centre, but Hanrahan sees himself as an out-half. He has no interest in playing at 12, he knows he’s not going to be a Test centre for Ireland but his goal is to take over from Johnny Sexton as soon as possible. His ambition is to pay at the highest level, but as a 10.

Hanrahan will be looking to take Stephen Myler’s jersey at Northampton. Myler will be 31 when JJ arrives; that shouldn’t mean much but the perception is that if you’re over 30, your better years are behind you.

JJ has also been very impressed with Alex King, who was a very good out-half in his playing days and broadened his horizons between playing with Wasps and Clermont, coaching at Clermont and now at Northampton. I think JJ feels King can add something to his game that’s missing.
Hanrahan doesn’t feel he will get in ahead of Keatley under the current management; the clock is ticking so that’s why he’s going. He wants to take Sexton’s place, but he knows he won’t do that sitting on the bench for Munster.

The counter-argument is that he should back himself, stick it out and fight for the jersey but it’s hard when the management are set on giving confidence to Keatley. He requires that to get the best out of him, and he’s done a good job, so it’s a difficult situation for the Munster management.

Some people like competition, others thrive when they know their place is secure and they have the backing of the decision-makers. I think that’s the relationship Keatley has with the Munster management, so JJ felt that not much was going to change.

Yes, he’d get game-time at 10, but not in the big European games and that’s not good for a fella in a hurry. I think that for any local young player who has experienced the atmosphere of a big European night at Thomond Park, it’s impossible to leave. But all JJ has sampled is running out of the tunnel and sitting on the replacements bench — there’s a big difference.

When I was attempting to break into the Munster team, my rival for the jersey was Killian Keane, who was very supportive even though he knew that as I progressed I could take his place. I don’t think Keats looks at it like that — he wants to be in the 23 for Ireland’s first Six Nations game against Italy. Everyone has their own goals; after I went on the 2001 Lions tour, I saw rugby differently in that respect.

I watched how the likes of Neil Back, Rob Howley, Jonny Wilkinson, Neil Jenkins and Martin Johnson looked after themselves, and I became selfish, ruthless, beyond obsessive. I got to the point where I would do whatever it took to play every time in every big game. Anthony Foley obviously feels Keatley is the better player right now. People must appreciate that as head coach, he is the man who sees these players most frequently, and therefore is best placed to make that call.

My gut reaction when JJ was selected at 12 for the second Clermont game in France — having not played in the first one — was that it was a knee-jerk reaction from the management, after the rumours he would leave emerged. But to be fair, Munster’s game-plan was smart and well thought-out; they wanted to stretch Clermont, manipulate their midfield and JJ was making the incisions with his excellent footwork, they just couldn’t land that fatal blow early on.

Hanrahan’s departure will definitely annoy Axel, but believe me, no stone would have been left unturned to convince him he was better off staying. JJ is very strong in his beliefs of how he wants to go about his career.

He’s a ballsy guy who isn’t easily led, the mob doesn’t rule him and you have to admire such a courageous decision at such a young age. It won’t be easy, but I wish him every success — my gut tells me it’s not the last we will see of him in red.

[FrankBurke]

I've seen Dolphin win twice in the past week. Their out-half, Rory Scannell, looks useful. A good kicker form hand and the tee and a nice break and distributor. JJ leaving may not leave the cupboard bare.

[munster#1]

I've seen Dolphin win twice in the past week. Their out-half, Rory Scannell, looks useful. A good kicker form hand and the tee and a nice break and distributor. JJ leaving may not leave the cupboard bare.

I would hope that he fulfills his potential at 12, if he became a good 10/12 option that would be great.

[blockhead]

Any news of Earls return yesterday? How did he look?

[Not_Today]

By the time he came on Munster had taken their foot off the pedal. The game was very disjointed. The main thing is he's back.

[theghost]

Any news of Earls return yesterday? How did he look?

came on at wing , game was effectively over as bp had been secured ,0-31 i think at the time.
he looked fit and keen, didnt see a huge amount of forward ball on his wing but crucially got involved in a few tackle situations and did well so looks like his knee stood up well, great for Irish Rugby to see him and Luke Fitz hopefully getting a run at fitness coming up to what could be a great year for us. The more competition for places the better and if earls is fit he could add a lot on the wing for ireland again

[neiliog93]

Didn't Rory Scannell get dropped by Munster after being in the academy? Could be wrong.

[Dave Cahill]

Did he not come on as a sub a couple of weeks ago?

Edit: He did, against Cardiff in November

[goreyguy]

Didn't Rory Scannell get dropped by Munster after being in the academy? Could be wrong.

No he is in the academy, not really viewed as an otuhalf though.

Munster don't really have an outhalf in their academy.

[olaf the fat]

I've seen Dolphin win twice in the past week. Their out-half, Rory Scannell, looks useful. A good kicker form hand and the tee and a nice break and distributor. JJ leaving may not leave the cupboard bare.

Heard Con beat them before Christmas, and seemly they have a flanker that's a good prospect. Sounds like some good players at AIL are making the breaking through in Munster as well (second hand reports from the other end of the country albeit)

[Donny B.]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/e ... -1.2067730

Conor Murray ruled out of the final two games for Munster. Disastrous blow. To be fair Duncan Williams has improved on recent seasons, but he's still a massive step down on Murray.

Just hope he can get fit for Ireland now.

[domhnallj]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/e ... -1.2067730

Conor Murray ruled out of the final two games for Munster. Disastrous blow. To be fair Duncan Williams has improved on recent seasons, but he's still a massive step down on Murray.

Just hope he can get fit for Ireland now.

+1 on all that. Although Williams has been going well any hope I had for a Munster win has taken a beating.

[offshorerules]

I don't know. Williams has had a lot of bad press down in Shelbyville but I think he's been doing alright. I'm not saying he's a replacement for Murray who is probably the only world class back Munster have but I sometime occasions like these are the making of young players and I doubt it will be the breaking of him.