French Top14

[Toulon fan]

Does this not prove that in fact money can buy success?

Of course it is !

It's a well known fact that every team that won something those last 20 years were all poor neighborhood clubs, with unpaid players training for fun and pride 2 times a week after work.

Please... Don't be stupid. Wake up.

[Leoslovechild]

Does this not prove that in fact money can buy success?

Of course it is !

It's a well known fact that every team that won something those last 20 years were all poor neighborhood clubs, with unpaid players training for fun and pride 2 times a week after work.

Please... Don't be stupid. Wake up.

Actually not being stupid merely stating the fact that Toulon have invested millions to win evrything where in fact most other clubs have over the years built through acadamies etc with the odd overseas player thrown in not all bought in and paid huge salaries and no real need for the natural arrogance...I din't find much of that in Toulon!

[Toulon fan]

Of course.
There are the ugly bad ones signing cheques and the good gentles ones always prompt to cash them.
Pure logic.

[Flash Gordon]

Toulon budgets are arguably a bigger threat to European rugby than any of that ERC nonsense. I'm seeing Leinster being similar to Ajax in the 1990's we are a good team playing good, attacking rugby with players that by and large came through the academy to a system that involved excellent technical skills. There is absolutely no chance that Ajax will ever win the Champions League again due to the budgets of the mega rich. If French budgets continue to boom as is, there's a real danger that the same thing could happen to the Celtic clubs as it did to the likes of Ajax.

Toulon owner Mourad Boudjellal wants to sign the ‘Fantastic Four’

The back-to-back Heineken Cup champions won’t be resting on their laurels.


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Are these men the 'Fantastic Four' in Boudjellal's mind?

FRESH FROM WATCHING his side claim a second consecutive Heineken Cup title, Toulon owner Mourad Boudjellal says he will attempt to sign the four best players in the world.

Much has been made of the Top 14 side’s strategy of recruiting high-profile, proven international players, but it seems Boudjellal is hopeful of going another step further in the transfer market.

The 53-year-old wants to sign what he terms the ‘Fantastic Four’ in the next year, although he refused to reveal to Eurosport who he has included on his personal wishlist.


In a year, I will try to do the biggest thing I’ve ever done [in the transfer market]. I have an idea in my head, a crazy idea; I will try to make it happen. There are Quatre Fantastiques in the rugby world, I truly want to do that Grand Slam.”

Toulon’s recruitment for next season is all but completed, with Leigh Halfpenny, Mamuka Gorgodze, James O’Connor, Romain Taofifenua and Gerhard Vosloo joining the club. It appears that Boudjellal’s ambitious words allude to signings for the 2015/16 campaign.



Boudjellal is rarely stuck for words.

Source: Colm O'Neill/INPHO


The Toulon owner’s statement has sparked lots of reaction in France, with copious speculation as to who the ‘Fantastic Four’ are. Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Kieran Read, Sonny Bill Williams, Ma’a Nonu, Israel Dagg, Eben Etzebeth, Bismack du Plessis, Mike Brown, Jamie Heaslip, Owen Farrell and Israel Folau are just some of the names mentioned so far.

The transfer market is likely to be blown wide open after the 2015 Rugby World Cup, meaning many experienced international players may become available. Boudjellal and Toulon will be ready and waiting with their financial power.

[Toulon fan]

In the meanwhile : everybody's looking at the finger pointing to the moon, and Toulon players are quietly preparing for their second final in a week.

[Keith]

The game is heading down the soccer route and the IRB are sitting back and letting it happen.

Toulon and the Top 14 aren't just a threat to Europe, they are a threat to world rugby. How many super 15 players have already crossed over and this is before the world cup. The SH floodgates will burst open the day after the world cup and the super 15 will really suffer because of it.

[ronk]

World rugby is moving on. Toulan are an issue, not a problem. Soccer has grown well, so there are things the game can learn from it.

The danger to the game is far far greater from the PRL heads. Look at the way they've dismantled the Heineken Cup, one of the best brands and most successful tournaments in sport. They cause trouble elsewhere like the implosion in Wales

[simonokeeffe]

NZ will be kind of ok as players with chance of All Blacks under 30 will stay there
SA shot themselves in the foot a little by starting to pick overseas based players when they were stuck in key positions (outhalf, goalkicker) so guys can move but think well I can still get picked/have good chance.
AUS in more trouble as theyve no money and rugby only the 5th biggest sport there at best

People in most trouble are the French national team as the Toulon model of ex internationals who are available all year round/never away with national sides is working, and other T14 clubs follow it/spend to compete/spend extra revenue from tv

Will be very interesting to see if they enforce the squad nationality quota system which the Toulon chairman is a vociferous opponent of for obvious reasons

[LeRouxIsPHat]

World rugby is moving on. Toulan are an issue, not a problem. Soccer has grown well, so there are things the game can learn from it.

The danger to the game is far far greater from the PRL heads. Look at the way they've dismantled the Heineken Cup, one of the best brands and most successful tournaments in sport. They cause trouble elsewhere like the implosion in Wales

Surely that's all driven by the desire to keep up with the French clubs though?

[ronk]

Toulon can only sign so many players.

It has an effect, but if you accept that you can have the best of the rest, the damage is limited.

They've also recruited well in many ways.

Wilkinson was considered finished when he left. Giteau had done his time in Oz and would have ended up somewhere so Oz weren't hard done by. Same with Habana. Steffan Armitage was very much a fringe player in England.

Lobbe was signed from Sale 5 years ago.

[jezzer]

Toulon can only sign so many players.

It has an effect, but if you accept that you can have the best of the rest, the damage is limited.

They've also recruited well in many ways.

Wilkinson was considered finished when he left. Giteau had done his time in Oz and would have ended up somewhere so Oz weren't hard done by. Same with Habana. Steffan Armitage was very much a fringe player in England.

Lobbe was signed from Sale 5 years ago.

Not to take away from what they've achieved Ronk, but they've been able to bring in more and more and more players over the past few years, until they hit upon a winning formula. A bit like Man City, they were a laughing stock for a few years, with people saying "shows that you can't buy a Premiership". But, over time they were able to churn the squad with even better players until they got it right.

If Leinster went out and signed Dan Carter for three years, he'd break our bank, he'd play every damn game for 3 years and we wouldn't be able to sign anyone else during that period. Those rules don't apply to Toulon. Over time, it becomes very difficult to compete with that.

[ronk]

World rugby is moving on. Toulan are an issue, not a problem. Soccer has grown well, so there are things the game can learn from it.

The danger to the game is far far greater from the PRL heads. Look at the way they've dismantled the Heineken Cup, one of the best brands and most successful tournaments in sport. They cause trouble elsewhere like the implosion in Wales

Surely that's all driven by the desire to keep up with the French clubs though?

Surely not.

They wanted to break the Rabo. All their policy has been aimed towards that goal and screwing the international game. They're not recruiting from France or especially going toe for toe on signings. If anything they've been happy to lose guys like Flood.

France are a different market for sponsorship. But splitting is designed to expose the Irish, Welsh and Scottish markets. It'll hurt PRL now, so that will be a battleground for the next renewal.

[ronk]

Toulon can only sign so many players.

It has an effect, but if you accept that you can have the best of the rest, the damage is limited.

They've also recruited well in many ways.

Wilkinson was considered finished when he left. Giteau had done his time in Oz and would have ended up somewhere so Oz weren't hard done by. Same with Habana. Steffan Armitage was very much a fringe player in England.

Lobbe was signed from Sale 5 years ago.

Not to take away from what they've achieved Ronk, but they've been able to bring in more and more and more players over the past few years, until they hit upon a winning formula. A bit like Man City, they were a laughing stock for a few years, with people saying "shows that you can't buy a Premiership". But, over time they were able to churn the squad with even better players until they got it right.

If Leinster went out and signed Dan Carter for three years, he'd break our bank, he'd play every damn game for 3 years and we wouldn't be able to sign anyone else during that period. Those rules don't apply to Toulon. Over time, it becomes very difficult to compete with that.

City haven't damaged football, they've upset the other rich clubs by joining them. The real damage to clubs like Ajax happened earlier. City hurt United and Chelsea by reducing their advantage, but the narrative was manipulated. Toulon have mostly hurt Biarritz and Toulouse in signing terms and have taken away our chance of dominance. But that's not the same thing as ruining the game.

I'm happy for the group of rugby mad fans who are doing well. They haven't done anything to stop well run franchises from building. We are building, Glasgow are hugely improved. Ulster are an elite team now.

Badly run sides like Cardiff and Edinburgh have been exposed. English sides are getting an easy ride at the moment.

[Dave Cahill]

Smallish clubs have survived in the Premier League if they're well run. The likes of Stoke and Swansea have shown it can be done. Southampton too if they hold their nerve. Even relatively big clubs, that are outside the G-Howevermanyitisnow group like Villa and Everton have managed to get by and with sound board management have remained at least at breakeven point

[LeRouxIsPHat]

World rugby is moving on. Toulan are an issue, not a problem. Soccer has grown well, so there are things the game can learn from it.

The danger to the game is far far greater from the PRL heads. Look at the way they've dismantled the Heineken Cup, one of the best brands and most successful tournaments in sport. They cause trouble elsewhere like the implosion in Wales

Surely that's all driven by the desire to keep up with the French clubs though?

Surely not.

They wanted to break the Rabo. All their policy has been aimed towards that goal and screwing the international game. They're not recruiting from France or especially going toe for toe on signings. If anything they've been happy to lose guys like Flood.

France are a different market for sponsorship. But splitting is designed to expose the Irish, Welsh and Scottish markets. It'll hurt PRL now, so that will be a battleground for the next renewal.

Why do you think they'd be happy to break the Rabo though? Surely it would be so that they could pillage it and keep up with the French? Not just a vindictive decision to ruin rugby here for no good reason, there must be a reason behind it.

I would agree with the part about international rugby, but no more so with the PRL than the French clubs. I think they'd both be happy for club rugby to follow champions league football and become the big show in town. I'd have thought the French TV deal makes them more of a threat than the PRL. Both are a danger though, no doubt.

[ronk]

There was a moment at the dawn of pro rugby when Scottish, Welsh and Irish stars went to England. The Celtic League reversed that trend.

Killing it damages the game, but opens a market for them too. The 6N sides are a powerful bloc against them, taking out the Rabo foundations gives them the strength they need.

The French trust that they can do their own thing, which is why they're growing so quickly. English clubs are obsessed with gimmicks. Stade Francais tried that.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

The strength they need to....?

[paddyor]

The strength they need to....?

I don't think it's necessarily about keeping up with the French. But eliminating the Rabo teams and running down the 6N. The Pro12 is a bigger competitor to their TV income than the Top14. It's English speaking in 3 countries with a tv market of c15m with big expat communities living in England. I'd say the last part is the one that pisses them off.

They're a long way off being able to compete with the French and they know it. Leaving aside the TV deals look at the support the French get from the local councils with the stadiums(earlier in the thread). Most of their clubs are loss making and the last thing they want are 10 more well financed teams to compete with for fans and TV revenue. Even the new TV deal while a significant increase, can't paper over that. They've already pissed away most of the revenue on a salary cap increase(see Gloucester and John Afoa).

[Vamos los azules]

If anything they've been happy to lose guys like Flood.

Who?

Leicester? Yes, I'm sure they're ecstatic to see their captain leave to head off to France.

The RFU? Not judging by Lancaster's comments about trying to convince him to stay. And just at the moment he'd probably be delighted to have Flood available rather than Cipriani or Burns. It's a little like Ireland heading off on a 3 test tour of NZ with only Madigan and Keatley available to play at 10.

PRL are fighting for their survival. There isn't the money in English club rugby that people (including the one or two sugar daddies who are involved) seem to think there is.

[Peg Leg]

A world cup on home soil could change that long-term