ROG

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Oldschool
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ROG

Post by Oldschool »

ROG is a genuine legend.
At least 11 of his years at the top level were quality.
Himself and Stringer were one of the most effective half back pairing Ireland has ever had.
ROG at his peak could make our back play a thing of beauty.
He was a lot more than just an exceptional kicker of the ball, his passing was excellent.
His positional play and reading of the game were also excellent.
All genuine rugby fans will take their hats off to him and applaud him.
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meinster
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Re: ROG

Post by meinster »

What's the catch?!
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mikey
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Re: ROG

Post by mikey »

i'm waiting for the punch line on this.........!

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Re: ROG

Post by Broken Wing »

Did Oldschool lose a bet?
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olaf the fat
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Re: ROG

Post by olaf the fat »

He got plenty of abuse here during his playing days.

That much abuse on an opposing teams fans site means you really are doing something right.

Let's face it, if he was cr@p for Munster we would have loved him.

(Provincial level only, at national level he was a legend)
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TrapperChamonix
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Re: ROG

Post by TrapperChamonix »

My Outstanding memory is of him in the match against Wales in Cardiff in 2003 (I think). Came on with 10 or 15 mins to go. Stephen Jones dropped a goal 2 mins into Injury time (remember that?). 30 seconds later and RoG had scored another to cancel it out.

The one thing I did wonder about the documentary last night was how he didn't see any parallel between his battle with Humpreys and Sexton.
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LENSTA
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Re: ROG

Post by LENSTA »

My outstanding memory is of him jumping over the hoarding in 2006 after handing off Mal and slotting the drop goal for the Slam in 09.

Credit where credit is due he was a legend for Ireland and Munster and his record speaks for itself. Tip of the hat Sir, from this Leinster fan.

What struck me about the programme was how emotional he was. I always thought he was a guarded fella who wouldn't give anything away. That seems not to be the case.

*edit fixed typo
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All Blacks nil
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Re: ROG

Post by All Blacks nil »

Great program.
Roy Keane shared his and DOC's feeling that the lows are lower than the highs are high. Incredible disappointments along the way but plenty of highs too. Great career
He is still better than Johnny ....at French if not driving on the right side of the road.

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Laighindown
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Re: ROG

Post by Laighindown »

I enjoyed the programme on ROG. It was an insight into his personality that I hadn't seen - the vulnerability, the unbelievable focus he had on his own performances and game - he lived in an intense bubble where he couldn't accept second place and seemed somewhat oblivious to other players. Puts some of the quotes he made in more context - I was always a huge fan of his play, I was in Thomond Park (occasionally - Munster girlfriend!)/Lansdowne/Croker for many great moments including the Gloucester miracle, but he lost me when slamming Sexton in the media to further his cause in claiming the Irish jersey (in aftermath of losing the Triple Crown v Scotland, at the World Cup). He really was a great player, he could influence games more than most other players of his generation.

To the programme - I felt it was a hodge podge of snippets lacking in any real narrative. You would have to know a lot about Irish rugby to follow it and fill in all the gaps, to know the importance of various clips. It succeeded very well in giving an insight into his personality, but lacked a narrative, lacked a balance. I wanted to know the emotions in and around and following the England match in Croker, the Grand Slam game, what it was like to play against X, what it was like to play alongside Y. Also the lows, some of which were focussed on - but his Lions tours by and large ended in disaster and personal tragedy, the Leinster Croker match, etc. The breaks in narrative were frustrating, it went from a clip of him saying he was finished with the jersey at the World Cup to the next clip of him playing for Ireland with no explanation or link. There was an awful lot missing, and I'd love to see the 'true' mix. I fully understand that the editors had to pick their stories and try to tell them well, and the final match v Scotland did that, the elimination at the group stages did that, but I would have liked more analysis by him of the key moments in his career, and more opinion from him of his contemporaries, at Munster, Ireland and in the international game.

I liked that the programme avoided testaments from other players, turning it into a ROG love in, it was a warts and all documentary that showed a side to the man that us sports fans didn't know about. Very entertaining for an Irish sports fan, but difficult to sell to any other markets due to the lack of narrative, background info. All in all a worthwhile portrait of a great player, but the Keane/Viera documentary blew this out of the water for compelling and entertaining viewing. That was a brilliant docu, perhaps a similar one of ROG/Sexton could be made in future. An insight into their rivalry, opinion on their managers, picking their dream Munster/Leinster teams and a common dream team, forcing eachother into honest recollections and insights into key moments. I felt that the ROG programme needed a dynamic of some sort which it lacked, but it was still fairly compelling viewing.

The ROG/Sexton debate will rage for years, but ROG is ahead at the moment (in terms of overall career). If Sexton had landed 'that' penalty against the ABs, then it would be pretty even or maybe Sexton ahead, but he didn't, and like it or not, his stock fell with that miss - the tiny margins between unbelievable success and dismal failure. He needs a huge three years in the Ireland jersey to be considered one of our best outhalves, including a 6 nations championship or two and a huge World Cup showing, maybe an ABs scalp.

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deco
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Re: ROG

Post by deco »

If he'd have retired in 2009 after he almost managed to lose the six nations for Ireland he'd be more highly regarded. Still he will rightly go down as one of the greats of Irish rugby, might even make the top ten. Seems less of a prat in retirement. Hope he makes a few bob for himself now and would love to see him as head coach for Munster, if they'll have him back after he turned down their last contract.
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ronk
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Re: ROG

Post by ronk »

deco wrote:If he'd have retired in 2009 after he almost managed to lose the six nations for Ireland he'd be more highly regarded. Still he will rightly go down as one of the greats of Irish rugby, might even make the top ten. Seems less of a prat in retirement. Hope he makes a few bob for himself now and would love to see him as head coach for Munster, if they'll have him back after he turned down their last contract.
I don't agree. He had 4 years left in him and he had plenty of good games left. He was in good form in 2009.

Ireland needed him, Munster needed him more. Worst case Ireland still need him for 21/22.

The game changed and it made it a lot harder for him to play his game. Kidney didn't do him any favours, by doing him all those favours. You don't pick yourself though.

Also, I definitely think Sexton is a better player through the competition.

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leinster4life13
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Re: ROG

Post by leinster4life13 »

ronk wrote:
deco wrote:If he'd have retired in 2009 after he almost managed to lose the six nations for Ireland he'd be more highly regarded. Still he will rightly go down as one of the greats of Irish rugby, might even make the top ten. Seems less of a prat in retirement. Hope he makes a few bob for himself now and would love to see him as head coach for Munster, if they'll have him back after he turned down their last contract.
I don't agree. He had 4 years left in him and he had plenty of good games left. He was in good form in 2009.

Ireland needed him, Munster needed him more. Worst case Ireland still need him for 21/22.

The game changed and it made it a lot harder for him to play his game. Kidney didn't do him any favours, by doing him all those favours. You don't pick yourself though.

Also, I definitely think Sexton is a better player through the competition.
Maybe for Munster, he was long finished as an international(beyond cameos, squad player) by 09. O'Gara's decline started in 07, he wash gash at the 07 WC and not much beyond an adequate game manager thereafter. He had a good four years as a world class game manager up until 07, thats about it.
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ronk
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Re: ROG

Post by ronk »

leinster4life13 wrote:
Maybe for Munster, he was long finished as an international(beyond cameos, squad player) by 09. O'Gara's decline started in 07, he wash gash at the 07 WC and not much beyond an adequate game manager thereafter. He had a good four years as a world class game manager up until 07, thats about it.
Worst case, he was a squad player. He was more than that, and there's been a lot of argument about how much he should have been. Even as a squad player, we needed a 2nd outhalf no matter what so we needed him.

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BlueBlue
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Re: ROG

Post by BlueBlue »

My view is that Rog took a very long time to become a great but limited player, I’m not being harsh as this can be said of a lot of players in all sports. The greats are few. Rog also stayed on 2 to 3 years at International level when he should've moved on, as was said the game changed and it made Rog even more all at sea than he was, the man could not see it and that made his last few years all the more frustrating and angry. That anger for the dying of his own abilities was directed toward Sexton for the most part, the saddest moments for O'Gara being how he angled and contrived to undermine Sexton and promote his own dying cause after the Scotland game and RWC. Someone mentioned before that it was funny that Rog could not see the parallels between Rog / Sexton and DH / Rog, the reason is simple, Rog see’s nothing but himself. Which brings me onto what I really think of O'Gara, I think O'Gara is all about O'Gara, he lives , sleeps and drinks in selfishness, It’s all about him, what Rog needs and wants, not the team . I don’t think I can think of a player that incessantly talks about himself as O’Gara always did. Some will say that's what a great sportsman needs to be, but we all know great sports men from many sports that rise above this.

Yes in the middle of his career he was great, a great player, but there was also no one else.

I think Sexton is twice the player Rog was, as he is a more complete 10. However I think going to Racing will undermine Sextons game as there is not a winning or team culture in Racing, which is the culture sexton thrives in. His season could not be going any worse, mid table in the league and out of the H-cup before x-mas. Soul destroying for Sexton. This will affect his Ireland chances and performances, also unlike O’Gara’s time other options are open to Ireland or at least are emerging very quickly. As a result, Sexton may have blown his chance to be greater than O’Gara. Time will tell.
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Re: ROG

Post by All Blacks nil »

ronk wrote:
leinster4life13 wrote:
Maybe for Munster, he was long finished as an international(beyond cameos, squad player) by 09. O'Gara's decline started in 07, he wash gash at the 07 WC and not much beyond an adequate game manager thereafter. He had a good four years as a world class game manager up until 07, thats about it.
Worst case, he was a squad player. He was more than that, and there's been a lot of argument about how much he should have been. Even as a squad player, we needed a 2nd outhalf no matter what so we needed him.
Leinster for life

Which two out halves would you have had in the squad from 08 onwards since ROG was in such decline. In the 2008 Autumn series the 3 out halves selected were ROG JS and Paddy Wallace. The 2009 Grand Slam Six Nations ROG played every minute. In the first three games Paddy Wallace was first centre with Darcy returning from his broken arm sub.Sexton was not included in the Six Nations match day squads. I Assume PW was covering ROG. In the final two games Darcy started with PW subbing again covering ROG among others.

So you might tell me which two out halves you would have put in front of ROG

Bear in mind Sexton his main rival, only started with Leinster when Contepomi was injured in the latter stages of the HC in 2009 quite possibly just when you truly started following the Blues. ( joined May 09) I would be interested which two would have filled your squad from 08 - 12 .

ROG HAS ONE STATISTIC THAT WILL NEVER BE SURPASSED IN RUGBY.
He played every minute as outhalf in a Six Nations Grand Slam

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Re: ROG

Post by awaaf »

Just watched this tonight. I thought it was great - in particular a great insight into the obsessive drive that drove him on. Just having ROG comment on ROG (rather than having anyone else comment on him) focussed things on that viewpoint. I thought the documentary said very little about his achievements, as someone said you would need to know a lot to fill in the gaps. His achievements were treated as secondary to his drive and obsession. We can feel his lobbying at the WC etc. was bad form or whatever but the documentary showed that behaviour as just the flip side of made him what he was. He couldn't do otherwise, his drive was so strong and at times it seemed to leave ROG battered and bruised. A great insight and far from the usual tribute stuff.

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Re: ROG

Post by blockhead »

All Blacks nil wrote:
ronk wrote:
leinster4life13 wrote:
Maybe for Munster, he was long finished as an international(beyond cameos, squad player) by 09. O'Gara's decline started in 07, he wash gash at the 07 WC and not much beyond an adequate game manager thereafter. He had a good four years as a world class game manager up until 07, thats about it.
Worst case, he was a squad player. He was more than that, and there's been a lot of argument about how much he should have been. Even as a squad player, we needed a 2nd outhalf no matter what so we needed him.
Leinster for life

Which two out halves would you have had in the squad from 08 onwards since ROG was in such decline. In the 2008 Autumn series the 3 out halves selected were ROG JS and Paddy Wallace. The 2009 Grand Slam Six Nations ROG played every minute. In the first three games Paddy Wallace was first centre with Darcy returning from his broken arm sub.Sexton was not included in the Six Nations match day squads. I Assume PW was covering ROG. In the final two games Darcy started with PW subbing again covering ROG among others.

So you might tell me which two out halves you would have put in front of ROG

Bear in mind Sexton his main rival, only started with Leinster when Contepomi was injured in the latter stages of the HC in 2009 quite possibly just when you truly started following the Blues. ( joined May 09) I would be interested which two would have filled your squad from 08 - 12 .

ROG HAS ONE STATISTIC THAT WILL NEVER BE SURPASSED IN RUGBY.
He played every minute as outhalf in a Six Nations Grand Slam
Less of the personal slurs ABn. I'm a a big fan of ROG and have championed him on this site a number of times, under fire too. However, the 2009 campaign was not his finest hour. The drop goal v Wales is one of my top personal memories of sport but I also remember his CrokerChoker v england, BOD bailed him out that day.
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Re: ROG

Post by All Blacks nil »

No one man ever won a tournament or match on his own. No one ever suggested that ROG won the Grand Slam on his own. What I did say was that he has possibly an unique record in that he played at outhalf for every minute dog a Grand Slam season. Paddy Wallace was nominally the backup outhalf but with all due respect to PW, would Ireland have completed the GS with him at outhalf. Sexton still inexperienced with a dozen or so senior starts was still back up to Contempomi in Leinster ( indeed Nacewa played a few games at 10 in front of Sexton)and even though he had been in the previous Autumn's extended squad Kidney did not include him in his Six Nations squad.
ROG kicked the winning goal , cross kicking to Bowe, his team gave him the ball. You mention the English match where ROG kicked 2/5. You don't mention the other games where ROG was 18/21 from the tee and 2/2 for drop goals

Just as Ireland probably would not have won the GS without BOD, I think you will agree having considered the options available that ROG was also key to Ireland completing the Grand Slamr

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TerenureJim
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Re: ROG

Post by TerenureJim »

Missed it when it was on, does anyone know where it might be found online perhaps.....

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: ROG

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

The RTE player.

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