Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

[Keith]

Does seem London Irish are doomed.

There was talk that this American consortium were only interested in acquiring LIs assets at Hazelwood, to set up a base for an NFL team. Which to be honest makes more sense to me as I've no idea why anyone would want to invest in a prem team at this point in time, unless you were a fan.

[Twist]

Saracens legacy continues. I wonder does anyone feel their HEC wins were worth it now....

That’s hater talk, playa. Wolves don’t do introspection. Too busy play play playing and being a pack of lone wolves awoooooo

[JohnB]

If as expected the demise of London Irish occurs tomorrow, surely the provision of 8 RCC places to the English Premiership for next season will have to be reduced? 4 places for the Premiership and 8 each to the URC and the Top 14 would make a manageable 20 teams for the RCC.

[The Doc]

If as expected the demise of London Irish occurs tomorrow, surely the provision of 8 RCC places to the English Premiership for next season will have to be reduced? 4 places for the Premiership and 8 each to the URC and the Top 14 would make a manageable 20 teams for the RCC.

I'd be inclined to go that way but they are really hamstrung by being so tied to the the last 16 round. Having a load of group games to just eliminate 4 teams means no jeopardy and therefore meaningless group games.

I think there's an argument to reduce the comp to 16 teams with top 2 going to QF's. Keep the groups honest and also reduce the qualification numbers to teams who might actually want to play for it. 6 from each league and the two winners of the prior year's comps. Gives credit to the teams (and league) who take the comps seriously. If you want to have the extra knockout game, make the QF's two legged though personally I wouldn't

[ronk]

If as expected the demise of London Irish occurs tomorrow, surely the provision of 8 RCC places to the English Premiership for next season will have to be reduced? 4 places for the Premiership and 8 each to the URC and the Top 14 would make a manageable 20 teams for the RCC.

If we changed that then we'd probably see other English clubs go under too.

Reducing the number of teams puts the Welsh and some others further away from qualifying and closer to folding.

This is a problem for Irish rugby too, not an opportunity for a power grab.

[riocard911]

If as expected the demise of London Irish occurs tomorrow, surely the provision of 8 RCC places to the English Premiership for next season will have to be reduced? 4 places for the Premiership and 8 each to the URC and the Top 14 would make a manageable 20 teams for the RCC.

If we changed that then we'd probably see other English clubs go under too.

Reducing the number of teams puts the Welsh and some others further away from qualifying and closer to folding.

This is a problem for Irish rugby too, not an opportunity for a power grab.

Be careful what you wish for, in other words?

[Oldschool]

If as expected the demise of London Irish occurs tomorrow, surely the provision of 8 RCC places to the English Premiership for next season will have to be reduced? 4 places for the Premiership and 8 each to the URC and the Top 14 would make a manageable 20 teams for the RCC.

If we changed that then we'd probably see other English clubs go under too.

Reducing the number of teams puts the Welsh and some others further away from qualifying and closer to folding.

This is a problem for Irish rugby too, not an opportunity for a power grab.

Be careful what you wish for, in other words?

Definitely +1 but a minor adjustment might give a playoff for the PRL's 8th qualifying slot.
8th v 9th in the URL(based on the number of countries in the URL)

[neill_m]

Tight Five Rugby
@TightFive_Rugby
·
2m
NEW: London Irish have been handed a one week extension by the RFU to complete their takeover, they’re safe for at least another week.

More time for the consortium to complete their purchase of the club - good news.

[ronk]

Looks like LI are doomed. It’s a lot of debt for the consortium to put up and Crossan wants out badly enough that he didn’t even show for the rescue meeting. He’ll let the club fold.

It’ll be administration like the others. But then something new happens. The RFU will effectively control (or be able to acquire) 3 clubs that are no longer encumbered by debt. They couldn’t step in to protect creditors, but they could later form 3 squads if they could do a deal with a core of the other owners either for then to exit or restructure the league.

They already write a big check for player release.

Don’t think it will happen. Wasps and LI broke their connection with their fan base by moving which complicates any attempt to re establish the brand. Worcester never really built enough of a following.

[riocard911]

Although my heart goes out to the many regular English rugby fans and players, the Prem club owners have only themselves to blame. First, they screwed up the Heino, cos the Irish were getting ideas above their station. Then, they ran their own league financially into the ground. Next, they'll want in to the URC. Well, they can go and **** themselves, as far as I'm concerned. I could maybe go along with a two division URC, which includes the Premiership clubs - a scenario, which IMO is looking increasingly like the only medium to long term way to rescue the professional game in England - if the RFU takes over the clubs, kicks the likes of Bruce Craig out and brings some sanity into the whole thing.

[neill_m]

LI have to cover May's salaries in full by 7pm today to get the extension, if they don't no extension.

[ronk]

London Irish lost money every year since the game went pro, as did many other teams. Now they have a pile a debt and an owner who has been trying for a year, or more, to offload them for free.

The English clubs have been thrashing around for over 10 years trying to squeeze money out of anywhere they could to stave off collapse, they ate the Heineken Cup as part of that process. None of it worked because of governance issues. It's also not the first crisis they faced.

Getting to better governance could take down more clubs along the way but It's the only real path. The Welsh clubs are doing more or less the same, crash cuts in squads and rebuild over time.

[FLIP]

London Irish lost money every year since the game went pro, as did many other teams. Now they have a pile a debt and an owner who has been trying for a year, or more, to offload them for free.

The English clubs have been thrashing around for over 10 years trying to squeeze money out of anywhere they could to stave off collapse, they ate the Heineken Cup as part of that process. None of it worked because of governance issues. It's also not the first crisis they faced.

Getting to better governance could take down more clubs along the way but It's the only real path. The Welsh clubs are doing more or less the same, crash cuts in squads and rebuild over time.

Given we've seen Ealing and Jersey denied entry to the Premiership due to lack of capacity, I'm fairly certain that rule is in place to ensure that any team coming into the Premiership becomes as indebted as the rest of them.

Having a 10k min stadium for a rugby team in a tough market is also a tad silly - for example, Luton Town will be in the Premier League next season with a stadium only slightly bigger than that - and the only improvements they'll have to make for next season are hospitality and media facilities. Luton will build a new and bigger stadium in the next few years, but they aren't being forced to take that gamble for the chance of promotion by the Premier League - and that's in the richest league in the World.

Premiership Rugby have been trying to be Premier League teams on a League 1 financial basis - it's just not possible.

[Flash Gordon]

London Irish lost money every year since the game went pro, as did many other teams. Now they have a pile a debt and an owner who has been trying for a year, or more, to offload them for free.

The English clubs have been thrashing around for over 10 years trying to squeeze money out of anywhere they could to stave off collapse, they ate the Heineken Cup as part of that process. None of it worked because of governance issues. It's also not the first crisis they faced.

Getting to better governance could take down more clubs along the way but It's the only real path. The Welsh clubs are doing more or less the same, crash cuts in squads and rebuild over time.

Given we've seen Ealing and Jersey denied entry to the Premiership due to lack of capacity, I'm fairly certain that rule is in place to ensure that any team coming into the Premiership becomes as indebted as the rest of them.

Having a 10k min stadium for a rugby team in a tough market is also a tad silly - for example, Luton Town will be in the Premier League next season with a stadium only slightly bigger than that - and the only improvements they'll have to make for next season are hospitality and media facilities. Luton will build a new and bigger stadium in the next few years, but they aren't being forced to take that gamble for the chance of promotion by the Premier League - and that's in the richest league in the World.

Premiership Rugby have been trying to be Premier League teams on a League 1 financial basis - it's just not possible.

Not really the same to be honest. Luton's income will probably be around 5% of revenue coming from match days, most of it from TV, commercial partnerships and merch. Rugby is still much more attendance driven.

English owners and Premiership did this to themselves and caused quite a bit of collateral damage to the European Cup along the way but ultimately what we need to focus on is what's best for the game and for Irish rugby. English clubs in the URC would cause a very significant increase in commercial reach and revenue. It's also make the competition stronger.

The alternative for rugby in England is a premiership that washes it's face and they'll be uncompetitive in Europe as a consequence or the RFU runs the clubs as they do in Ireland. The latter is probably preferable and better for English rugby in the long run but will likely take them years to embed.

[ronk]

The 10k rule was a catastrophic gamble.

It was partly there to ensure a sounder financial footing but it also pulled up the drawbridge behind it. This both cut out rising teams and gave the illusion of security that led to excessive investment.

The old way to fail was relegation first. But getting rid of relegation just delayed the doom.

It wasn't financially viable to have small attendances, but it was even less viable to have small attendances in big expensive stadia.

[MylesNaGapoleen]

sounds crazy, but, joining the URC might be a way forward for english clubs. premiership management has been a shambles (prior to covid) and they appear incapable of salvaging the situation other than letting clubs go to the wall.

The URC could have two leagues, with promotion & relegation, that would generate huge TV revenues with the english in the mix, more than the premiership could dream of.

[ronk]

They had a window with no relegation to pull millions out of their player salaries and expenses.

Covid was an bigger factor than is generally reported, but that also just exposed their poor relationship with the RFU.

[ronk]

sounds crazy, but, joining the URC might be a way forward for english clubs. premiership management has been a shambles (prior to covid) and they appear incapable of salvaging the situation other than letting clubs go to the wall.

The URC could have two leagues, with promotion & relegation, that would generate huge TV revenues with the english in the mix, more than the premiership could dream of.

That's spreading problems rather than solving them.

The English ownership model will clash with ours and it will end badly.

[Flash Gordon]

They had a window with no relegation to pull millions out of their player salaries and expenses.

Covid was an bigger factor than is generally reported, but that also just exposed their poor relationship with the RFU.

They plugged that with CVC money I think but all that did was shore up a busted business model AND hand over part control to an investment company not known for putting the good of the game ahead of money!

The model doesn't work and hasn't for years. You'd be absolutely mad to invest in a premiership rugby club under the current circumstances unless you want to launder/sportswash.

[Schumi]

sounds crazy, but, joining the URC might be a way forward for english clubs. premiership management has been a shambles (prior to covid) and they appear incapable of salvaging the situation other than letting clubs go to the wall.

The URC could have two leagues, with promotion & relegation, that would generate huge TV revenues with the english in the mix, more than the premiership could dream of.

That's spreading problems rather than solving them.

The English ownership model will clash with ours and it will end badly.

100%. Within a couple of years, we'd have constant complaints about how unfair the Irish system is to them, wanting the lion's share of TV money because of their big market and threats of pulling out. The rugby in a 10 or 12 team top division would be fantastic but off field it wouldn't work, not to mention that teams in the second division would really struggle to generate much interest.