Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

[paddyor]

Esterhuizen off to Lyon remoured by Midol but denied by Quins CEO. Other rumours about the state of Quins finances on twitter too apparently.

[Keith]

There's talk of keeping the league to 10 teams and keeping the salary cap at 5 million pounds. I didn't realise things were so dire over there. I wonder if Welsh fans are pleading to join the prem now? For a country the size of England to only have a 10 team league and possibly no relegation is a disgrace. The PRL are a basket case and have no business running professional competitions. The HC has to be taken off them as soon as possible in order to at least save that comp.

[MylesNaGapoleen]

There's talk of keeping the league to 10 teams and keeping the salary cap at 5 million pounds. I didn't realise things were so dire over there. I wonder if Welsh fans are pleading to join the prem now? For a country the size of England to only have a 10 team league and possibly no relegation is a disgrace. The PRL are a basket case and have no business running professional competitions. The HC has to be taken off them as soon as possible in order to at least save that comp.

english rugby is in serious trouble...mostly because of the optimism before covid and no plan B when covid hit.

My take on it is the IRFU should buy London Irish as a "fifth province" and get it into the URC before the premiership implodes further. You are right, the english premiership is pretty poor compared to the french top 14 or the top 4 in the URC.

That said. Salarycens are still hurting....they have a big goo on them for the heino this season after they got relegated for cheating. Exeter travel to SA this weekend....I think Salarycens will be the last english team standing in the heino come quarters this year and could go all the way.

would love a rematch of newcastle in Dublin. unlikely...I think a french team will be there. but we can all dream.

[neill_m]

Tom Willis joining Saracens for next season. There is now speculation about the future of Billy Vunipola - linked with French and Japanese clubs.

[Flash Gordon]

There's talk of keeping the league to 10 teams and keeping the salary cap at 5 million pounds. I didn't realise things were so dire over there. I wonder if Welsh fans are pleading to join the prem now? For a country the size of England to only have a 10 team league and possibly no relegation is a disgrace. The PRL are a basket case and have no business running professional competitions. The HC has to be taken off them as soon as possible in order to at least save that comp.

english rugby is in serious trouble...mostly because of the optimism before covid and no plan B when covid hit.

My take on it is the IRFU should buy London Irish as a "fifth province" and get it into the URC before the premiership implodes further. You are right, the english premiership is pretty poor compared to the french top 14 or the top 4 in the URC.

That said. Salarycens are still hurting....they have a big goo on them for the heino this season after they got relegated for cheating. Exeter travel to SA this weekend....I think Salarycens will be the last english team standing in the heino come quarters this year and could go all the way.

would love a rematch of newcastle in Dublin. unlikely...I think a french team will be there. but we can all dream.

Yes indeed, 2 down already of course. If they move to the salary model described here they will never be competitive in Europe.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-un ... s-28796674

Would love to see Irish in the URC and it would make sense from a player development point of view for the IRFU, I'm not sure the IRFU has the cash to purchase it though post covid. Also not sure on rugby governance, can a national rugby union own a team in another jurisdiction?

[blockhead]

There's talk of keeping the league to 10 teams and keeping the salary cap at 5 million pounds. I didn't realise things were so dire over there. I wonder if Welsh fans are pleading to join the prem now? For a country the size of England to only have a 10 team league and possibly no relegation is a disgrace. The PRL are a basket case and have no business running professional competitions. The HC has to be taken off them as soon as possible in order to at least save that comp.

english rugby is in serious trouble...mostly because of the optimism before covid and no plan B when covid hit.

My take on it is the IRFU should buy London Irish as a "fifth province" and get it into the URC before the premiership implodes further. You are right, the english premiership is pretty poor compared to the french top 14 or the top 4 in the URC.

That said. Salarycens are still hurting....they have a big goo on them for the heino this season after they got relegated for cheating. Exeter travel to SA this weekend....I think Salarycens will be the last english team standing in the heino come quarters this year and could go all the way.

would love a rematch of newcastle in Dublin. unlikely...I think a french team will be there. but we can all dream.

Yes indeed, 2 down already of course. If they move to the salary model described here they will never be competitive in Europe.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-un ... s-28796674

Would love to see Irish in the URC and it would make sense from a player development point of view for the IRFU, I'm not sure the IRFU has the cash to purchase it though post covid. Also not sure on rugby governance, can a national rugby union own a team in another jurisdiction?

Did Scotland try something similar with London Scottish a few years back?

[naraic]

english rugby is in serious trouble...mostly because of the optimism before covid and no plan B when covid hit.

My take on it is the IRFU should buy London Irish as a "fifth province" and get it into the URC before the premiership implodes further. You are right, the english premiership is pretty poor compared to the french top 14 or the top 4 in the URC.

That said. Salarycens are still hurting....they have a big goo on them for the heino this season after they got relegated for cheating. Exeter travel to SA this weekend....I think Salarycens will be the last english team standing in the heino come quarters this year and could go all the way.

would love a rematch of newcastle in Dublin. unlikely...I think a french team will be there. but we can all dream.

Yes indeed, 2 down already of course. If they move to the salary model described here they will never be competitive in Europe.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-un ... s-28796674

Would love to see Irish in the URC and it would make sense from a player development point of view for the IRFU, I'm not sure the IRFU has the cash to purchase it though post covid. Also not sure on rugby governance, can a national rugby union own a team in another jurisdiction?

Did Scotland try something similar with London Scottish a few years back?

The RFU has indicated that it would not take steps to stop London Scottish competing in the super 8s (expanded super 6s) instead of the championship but London Scottish did not move.

The SRU also had a deal with London Scottish for a number of years for 14 development players to play for London Scottish in the championship for a few years. The RFU brought in rules that essentially blocked that by tying funding for championships clubs to having 75% english qualified players.

The real risk from buying London Irish would be that the IRFU would spend on buying it and send people there who would go on to qualify for England while playing there.

[Dave Cahill]

The SRU had a development deal with London Scottish - they were going to send a load of development players down in order to broaden their player base. The deal lasted less than six months before the SRU canceled it. It was a stupid deal anyway - playing in the RFU Championship development league is no improvement on the domestic league in Scotland, if London Scottish got promoted to the Premiership it would have to be canceled anyway as Premiership club academies are part of the RFU development pathway.


By the way, can anyone see any situation where the RFU would ever sanction a team based in England playing in a rival professional league to their own?

[ronk]

London Irish are one of clubs most likely to fail next. No way should the IRFU get involved. They'd also have to pay off Paddy Jackson's contract a 2nd time.

There are many other issues.

There are already 5 provincial bases across 4 provinces, I don't see why anyone wouldn't discuss that if there was ever to be discussion of another professional men's XVs team in Ireland.

[Keith]

London Irish are one of clubs most likely to fail next. No way should the IRFU get involved. They'd also have to pay off Paddy Jackson's contract a 2nd time.

There are many other issues.

There are already 5 provincial bases across 4 provinces, I don't see why anyone wouldn't discuss that if there was ever to be discussion of another professional men's XVs team in Ireland.

Until Connacht is to a sufficient playing level consistently and both Conancht and Leinster are playing in actual stadiums, there shouldn't even be a thought going into funding another team.

[tigerburnie]

Rules are that English RFU run the game in England if either London Scots or Irish want to change their league, they will have to play in another country.

[blockhead]

London Irish are one of clubs most likely to fail next. No way should the IRFU get involved. They'd also have to pay off Paddy Jackson's contract a 2nd time.

There are many other issues.

There are already 5 provincial bases across 4 provinces, I don't see why anyone wouldn't discuss that if there was ever to be discussion of another professional men's XVs team in Ireland.

Until Connacht is to a sufficient playing level consistently and both Conancht and Leinster are playing in actual stadiums, there shouldn't even be a thought going into funding another team.

Bang on!

[blockhead]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/64297517
Premiership Rugby club finances are "clearly unsustainable", a damning parliamentary report has concluded.

"The financial situation of Premiership clubs is clearly unsustainable, and we are surprised by the very complacent belief of Bill Sweeney and Simon Massie-Taylor that further growth in club revenues will solve these problems," the report said.

"The demise during the playing season of two Premiership clubs is a stain on the reputation of the RFU and PRL. It is not indicative of a healthy professional setup."

Ouch!

[FLIP]

There's a growing sentiment online and in the media that this is the fault of the RFU.

Wasn't this setup the whole idea of the PRL and its teams in the first place? If they want the RFU to have responsibility they should place themselves under its care.

[Ruckedtobits]

The more detailed picture of what the UK Parliamentary Committe found:

https://committees.parliament.uk/commit ... een%20lost.

[Oldschoolsocks]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/64297517
Premiership Rugby club finances are "clearly unsustainable", a damning parliamentary report has concluded.

"The financial situation of Premiership clubs is clearly unsustainable, and we are surprised by the very complacent belief of Bill Sweeney and Simon Massie-Taylor that further growth in club revenues will solve these problems," the report said.

"The demise during the playing season of two Premiership clubs is a stain on the reputation of the RFU and PRL. It is not indicative of a healthy professional setup."

Ouch!

I wonder how long it will be until it’s our fault for not falling within their salary cap??!

[riocard911]

The adjective "scathing" well describes this report and its conclusion. The authors state clearly, that the Prem in its current form is financially unsustainable, which only reinforces my expectation, that sooner rather than later the Nigels are gonna make a push for an amalgamation with the URC to a two division league. Tick, tock, tick, tock.............

[ronk]

The adjective "scathing" well describes this report and its conclusion. The authors state clearly, that the Prem in its current form is financially unsustainable, which only reinforces my expectation, that sooner rather than later the Nigels are gonna make a push for an amalgamation with the URC to a two division league. Tick, tock, tick, tock.............

Nah. They can't. URC is a union owned (primarily) model.

Press problem is unsustainable owner-driven expansion. They're spending more than they can grow their revenue base.

Some clubs (Worcester) never had the revenue base either through support base or lack of facilities and were always going to run out eventually.

Some clubs (Wasps) spent big to create a revenue base and blew themselves up.

Governance is a problem and it would have delayed the crisis but it wouldn't have fixed it. Clubs are badly run but even well run clubs run up against the simple issue that they mostly don't have and can't afford the facilities to sustain the businesses they want to be.

The 10k capacity rule forced a round of investment that is threatening to kill off PRL. They've bleed all the main sources of income: TV, the RFU, shared income with the Heineken Cup, government support. Now they need to cut costs and go back to organic growth. The salary cap isn't fit for purpose as it holds back clubs with money and pressures those without.

[blockhead]

The adjective "scathing" well describes this report and its conclusion. The authors state clearly, that the Prem in its current form is financially unsustainable, which only reinforces my expectation, that sooner rather than later the Nigels are gonna make a push for an amalgamation with the URC to a two division league. Tick, tock, tick, tock.............

Nah. They can't. URC is a union owned (primarily) model.

Press problem is unsustainable owner-driven expansion. They're spending more than they can grow their revenue base.

Some clubs (Worcester) never had the revenue base either through support base or lack of facilities and were always going to run out eventually.

Some clubs (Wasps) spent big to create a revenue base and blew themselves up.

Governance is a problem and it would have delayed the crisis but it wouldn't have fixed it. Clubs are badly run but even well run clubs run up against the simple issue that they mostly don't have and can't afford the facilities to sustain the businesses they want to be.

The 10k capacity rule forced a round of investment that is threatening to kill off PRL. They've bleed all the main sources of income: TV, the RFU, shared income with the Heineken Cup, government support. Now they need to cut costs and go back to organic growth. The salary cap isn't fit for purpose as it holds back clubs with money and pressures those without.

Nah. They can't. URC is a union owned (primarily) model.

I can see them approaching the Welsh first, "west country derbies" they'll say and the welsh will roll over, then the scots will be next. Divide and conquer.

[The Doc]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/64297517
Premiership Rugby club finances are "clearly unsustainable", a damning parliamentary report has concluded.

"The financial situation of Premiership clubs is clearly unsustainable, and we are surprised by the very complacent belief of Bill Sweeney and Simon Massie-Taylor that further growth in club revenues will solve these problems," the report said.

"The demise during the playing season of two Premiership clubs is a stain on the reputation of the RFU and PRL. It is not indicative of a healthy professional setup."

Ouch!

I wonder how long it will be until it’s our fault for not falling within their salary cap??!

They already say that - "The European Cup is unfair because nobody else follows our salary cap"