Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

[Morf]

I think it is recognised that ground shares aren't the way to sustainable success but building a new stadium in London is incredibly difficult and expensive given land prices,

Saracens did the best they could with a small stadium in Barnet. I don't like Saracens at all but can see they have got something they can call their own and can grow from there.

Ground shares work fine in Italian football(Milan, Rome). AFAIK the grounds there are owned by the municipality so that might be the thing. I.E not wanting to be paying into your rivals coffers or your rival trying to see you out the door. There does seem to be some attachment to the grounds in England though, like they are a link back to the past as opposed to just part of the balance sheet(I've no big sentimental attachment to Donnybrook or the RDS). Like no matter the financial sense they don't want to share it. I don't think it's beyond reason that 2 clubs could play out of the same ground and develop from it.

Inter/Milan (Giuseppe Meazza/San Siro) & Roma/Lazio (Stadio Olimpico) make eff all out of the gate receipts though and the latter is very run down I've heard.

Juventus were delighted to build their own and keep all the gate and the fans really didn't like the Stadio Della Alpi (running track and too far from pitch, issue with municipal stadiums).

[mikerob]

It depends what rent is changed for the grounds in Italy. I think some of the municipality owned grounds in France only charge a peppercorn rent for their use. The ground shares in England will be at full commercial prices and I think this may be about 15%-20% of the gate. Additionally with a ground share, the renter may not get full use of the facility for other activities and income - corporate entertainment, concerts, club shop, food and drink concessions etc. Saracens new ground isn't in a great location and isn't that big but they own it and can grow things from there.

The other issue with ground share is the lack of the clearly identifiable home that the club can build a support base around. Wasps moving from Sudbury to QPR to Wycombe to... somewhere... before it turned out to be Coventry clearly doesn't help to grow support.

Leinster are fortunate that even though you are renting, the Leinster support base is huge compared to all of the English teams with the exception of Leicester.

[IanD]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/29534483

Wasps in Coventry: Ricoh move to be completed by December

Wasps have announced they will start their new life at the Ricoh Arena in December after acquiring a 50% interest in the Coventry stadium.
The London-based Premiership club will jointly own the ground with Arena Coventry Limited, allowing Coventry City to play there still as tenants.
"This is a watershed moment in the history of Wasps," said chief executive Nick Eastwood.
Wasps will continue to use current home Adams Park for the next two months.
Their first game at the Ricoh will either be the European Champions Cup fixture against French side Castres on Saturday, 13 December, or the following weekend's Premiership game against London Irish on Sunday, 21 December.
Coventry City are away at Port Vale on 13 December and are scheduled to host Fleetwood Town at the Ricoh in a League One fixture on Saturday, 20 December.


I figured the move would be next season at the earliest but by December is shocking.

I wonder how will it affect them to refund season tickets - also will they have to refund full cost of the season ticket? Have fans entered a contract to have all games in the London area? Can Season Ticket Holders obtain full refund through credit card company as they have no received what they paid for? Surely a large chunk of cash to out at risk.

Also will this affect the contracts of players and staff?

[Hornet]

As far as I'm concerned, Barnet ain't London.

Really? You had better tell this lot.

http://directory.londoncouncils.gov.uk/ ... ry/barnet/

Correct, but if you lived and Greenwich and worked in the City, you'd know what I mean.

As someone who lived in and around London for four decades I know full well what you mean. It's just unfortunate that you are wrong. Twickenham Stoop is further from the City than Barnet Copthall.

[Hornet]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/29534483

Wasps in Coventry: Ricoh move to be completed by December

Wasps have announced they will start their new life at the Ricoh Arena in December after acquiring a 50% interest in the Coventry stadium.
The London-based Premiership club will jointly own the ground with Arena Coventry Limited, allowing Coventry City to play there still as tenants.
"This is a watershed moment in the history of Wasps," said chief executive Nick Eastwood.
Wasps will continue to use current home Adams Park for the next two months.
Their first game at the Ricoh will either be the European Champions Cup fixture against French side Castres on Saturday, 13 December, or the following weekend's Premiership game against London Irish on Sunday, 21 December.
Coventry City are away at Port Vale on 13 December and are scheduled to host Fleetwood Town at the Ricoh in a League One fixture on Saturday, 20 December.


I figured the move would be next season at the earliest but by December is shocking.

I wonder how will it affect them to refund season tickets - also will they have to refund full cost of the season ticket? Have fans entered a contract to have all games in the London area? Can Season Ticket Holders obtain full refund through credit card company as they have no received what they paid for? Surely a large chunk of cash to out at risk.

Also will this affect the contracts of players and staff?

First game in December is an appalling slight on those fans who have bought ST's. Refunds are being offered at a pro-rata rate. There are some very angry Wasps fans on their 'Drunken Wasps' fans forum. Some are trying to organise a protest at the next home game. The e-mail that STH's have received include a meet and greet session at the Ricoh. West Midland Police might have to keep an eye on that one! Could be lively (if any STH turns up). It could well be that we will outnumber the remaining Wasps supporters at the Ricoh in January. Also I have not seen anything from the PRL or RFU on their view on this although they probably could not care less. Fans that turn up at the ground seem to be a secondary consideration in the Professional era. A black day if you are a Wasps fan.

[Hornet]

Just seen this in the Torygraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... Arena.html

The bit about where Goode was born made me laugh. Someone for the fans to jeer!

[mikerob]

As someone who lived in and around London for four decades I know full well what you mean. It's just unfortunate that you are wrong. Twickenham Stoop is further from the City than Barnet Copthall.

It may be a closer distance as the crow flies but it isn't quicker by public transport. Starting at the Bank of England, it is 10-15 mins quicker to get to the Stoop than Barnet Copthall according to the TfL journey planner.

[Hornet]

As someone who lived in and around London for four decades I know full well what you mean. It's just unfortunate that you are wrong. Twickenham Stoop is further from the City than Barnet Copthall.

It may be a closer distance as the crow flies but it isn't quicker by public transport. Starting at the Bank of England, it is 10-15 mins quicker to get to the Stoop than Barnet Copthall according to the TfL journey planner.

Depends if you trust the TfL planner or local knowledge. I use the latter and found times similar. Used journey planners for many cities against working out my own journey's. Have yet to find a journey planner which is a good as my abilities with timetables and maps. I usually can save around 20% in timings.

[The Anathemata]

As someone who lived in and around London for four decades I know full well what you mean. It's just unfortunate that you are wrong. Twickenham Stoop is further from the City than Barnet Copthall.

It may be a closer distance as the crow flies but it isn't quicker by public transport. Starting at the Bank of England, it is 10-15 mins quicker to get to the Stoop than Barnet Copthall according to the TfL journey planner.

Depends if you trust the TfL planner or local knowledge. I use the latter and found times similar. Used journey planners for many cities against working out my own journey's. Have yet to find a journey planner which is a good as my abilities with timetables and maps. I usually can save around 20% in timings.

It's a question of civilisation too. You can train it down to Twickers and it's green and spacious. Getting to Barnet involves the tube or hacking through squalid suburbia in a car. Perhaps it's just that I hate most parts of North London, passed Highgate and Islington.

[mikerob]

It's a question of civilisation too. You can train it down to Twickers and it's green and spacious. Getting to Barnet involves the tube or hacking through squalid suburbia in a car. Perhaps it's just that I hate most parts of North London, passed Highgate and Islington.

Tend to agree. I'd take train from Waterloo over Northern line and a bus any day although Thameslink train and a bus are also possible to Barnet.

[paddyor]

All fair points on the grounds. Especially how run down they can be etc.

My own opinion is that the ground is really just an asset or a cost of sale. For a club it's the members/fans who make it. They'll make themselves at home anywhere reasonable.

[blockhead]

03NOV

Saracens Overtake Northampton

Saracens have overtaken Northampton Saints and moved into third place on the Premiership table of Facebook followers.

The innovative north London club reached 64,822 likes late on Monday afternoon and have now set their sights on chasing down second-placed Harlequins. Leicester Tigers remain the leaders of the pack, for the time being.

Team Facebook Likes

Leicester Tigers – 135,224
Harlequins – 67,373
Saracens – 64,822
Northampton Saints – 64,820
London Irish – 62,066
Bath – 60,811
Gloucester – 55,988
Wasps – 55,469
Exeter Chiefs – 42,997
Sale Sharks – 27,171
Newcastle Falcons – 19,675
London Welsh – 4,521

From Saracens own site of course. Who says nothing exciting happens in the EPL!!
Poor oul London Welsh though, 1 point and very few friends either, apparently.

[simonokeeffe]

03NOV

Saracens Overtake Northampton

Saracens have overtaken Northampton Saints and moved into third place on the Premiership table of Facebook followers.

The innovative north London club reached 64,822 likes late on Monday afternoon and have now set their sights on chasing down second-placed Harlequins. Leicester Tigers remain the leaders of the pack, for the time being.

Team Facebook Likes

Leicester Tigers – 135,224
Harlequins – 67,373
Saracens – 64,822
Northampton Saints – 64,820
London Irish – 62,066
Bath – 60,811
Gloucester – 55,988
Wasps – 55,469
Exeter Chiefs – 42,997
Sale Sharks – 27,171
Newcastle Falcons – 19,675
London Welsh – 4,521

From Saracens own site of course. Who says nothing exciting happens in the EPL!!
Poor oul London Welsh though, 1 point and very few friends either, apparently.

Surprised Saracens only recently found out you can buy facebook likes

[Vamos los azules]

03NOV

Saracens Overtake Northampton

Saracens have overtaken Northampton Saints and moved into third place on the Premiership table of Facebook followers.

The innovative north London club reached 64,822 likes late on Monday afternoon and have now set their sights on chasing down second-placed Harlequins. Leicester Tigers remain the leaders of the pack, for the time being.

Team Facebook Likes

Leicester Tigers – 135,224
Harlequins – 67,373
Saracens – 64,822
Northampton Saints – 64,820
London Irish – 62,066
Bath – 60,811
Gloucester – 55,988
Wasps – 55,469
Exeter Chiefs – 42,997
Sale Sharks – 27,171
Newcastle Falcons – 19,675
London Welsh – 4,521

From Saracens own site of course. Who says nothing exciting happens in the EPL!!
Poor oul London Welsh though, 1 point and very few friends either, apparently.

I'm not sure facebook likes is the best way of determining actual fans. I'm probably into double figures of rugby club pages "liked" but I wouldn't really qualify as a fan of many of them. I'm counted at least 3 times on that Premiership list for example. Half tempted to like the Saints page now to try to get them back past Saracens

[blockhead]

Here's another one from the mighty Scaracens.

Saracens to face Western Province at Allianz Park

Saracens will play DHL Western Province at Allianz Park on Sunday 9 November, 2014.

The 2014 Premiership league winners defeated the Sharks earlier this year, and will be aiming to maintain their 100% record against top South African opposition.

Mark McCall, Director of Rugby, said: “DHL Western Province have long been one of the leading teams in the southern hemisphere, and it will be a great thrill for our players and supporters to welcome the Cape team to Allianz Park.”

Gert Smal, Western Province Director of Rugby, said: “To play Saracens in London will be a great experience for our players and coaches and, while some of our players will be involved in the Springbok tour to Europe, we will field our strongest possible team at Allianz Park.”

So they won the League last year?
Is that an actual trophy now?

[Morf]

I think the fans wanted one.

[hugonaut]

Here's another one from the mighty Scaracens.

Saracens to face Western Province at Allianz Park

Saracens will play DHL Western Province at Allianz Park on Sunday 9 November, 2014.

The 2014 Premiership league winners defeated the Sharks earlier this year, and will be aiming to maintain their 100% record against top South African opposition.

Mark McCall, Director of Rugby, said: “DHL Western Province have long been one of the leading teams in the southern hemisphere, and it will be a great thrill for our players and supporters to welcome the Cape team to Allianz Park.”

Gert Smal, Western Province Director of Rugby, said: “To play Saracens in London will be a great experience for our players and coaches and, while some of our players will be involved in the Springbok tour to Europe, we will field our strongest possible team at Allianz Park.”

So they won the League last year?
Is that an actual trophy now?

Jesus, that's pathetic.

[blockhead]

Northampton's Dylan Hartley weighing up move to Montpellier after 2015 World Cup
Saints captain considers switch when contract expires at end of season, with terms of any deal unlikely to affect chances of playing for England at next autumn's tournament
By Mick Cleary

10:00PM GMT 10 Nov 2014

Northampton hooker Dylan Hartley has been in talks with Montpellier about a move to the French club after the 2015 Rugby World Cup. Reports in France state that contact has been made with the Saints captain, who is weighing up his options for when his contract with Northampton runs out at the end of the season.

Stuart Lancaster, the England head coach, said on Monday that he had had no discussions with Hartley about the implications of a possible move although the terms of any deal are not expected to run counter to the Rugby Football Union policy of not selecting players from outside the Aviva Premiership.

“This is the first I’ve heard about it,” said Lancaster when told of the reports of a potential move. “I have not discussed that with him or anything about his contract. And it has definitely not been mentioned in camp.”

Lancaster does not belief that the issue would be a distraction. “I never notice any distraction from agents or external sources that affect the players’ mindset, and certainly not with Dylan in this particular instance,” he said.

Technically Hartley would be a Montpellier player with any contract expected to pick up from the end of his Northampton deal which is understood to terminate on June 30. Under IRB regulations, players have to be released for World Cup camps. Hartley would begin training with England as a Northampton player and cross over as a Montpellier player during pre-World Cup training.

Hartley’s situation would be different to that of Toulon’s Steffon Armitage. who has fallen foul of the RFU policy, and, despite coming close to signing a short-term deal with Bath recently, the openside flanker looks set to be kicking his heels next autumn when the World Cup gets under way unless Lancaster decides to invoke the ‘exceptional circumstances’ get-out clause which would allow him to select from outside the domestic game.

Lancaster, though, was bullish about the vast majority of players staying in England. “I’m sure if a player had a decision to make about France, then they would come and see me,” he said. “Not one player has come to see me. With all the young players we see as being the future of the England team beyond this World Cup, there is no indication whatsoever that anyone is considering anything other than staying to play in England.”

[simonokeeffe]

Manoa is meant to be going to Toulon too, one of the Pisi's to Castres
Looks like Saints could face a bit of a slump

[Morf]

Manoa is meant to be going to Toulon too, one of the Pisi's to Castres
Looks like Saints could face a bit of a slump

Last Saint marching out turn off the light.