tigerburnie wrote: ↑October 24th, 2022, 3:15 pm
There's nothing wrong from a rugby point of view with the English model, what has failed is the business acumen to run it, having seen what sort of a hash our business leaders and politicians are making of running the country, it really doesn't surprise me. Leicester have had the good sense/fortune to have ex players who were successful businessmen at the helm, we are presently financially stretched, but the ground development with three new stands and a hotel built are indications that there is a sound business plan in place, it does however rely on consumers and sponsors having the spare funds to actively support the club in a financial tough time globally.
Leicester (and a few others) have a strong fundamental base - a decent supporters base and attendances. It has to be tough when you can only count on <10k regular supporters - it means you just can't have a large or expensive squad. Too prone to economic downturn and lower sponsorship / TV money.
Clubs with the supporter base of Newport but trying to carry a squad similar to Saracens is a risky strategy
I like your right leg. A lovely leg for the role.
I've got nothing against your right leg.
The trouble is ... neither have you
I'm not sure that there is an 'English model' to be honest. Some clubs are run like our local clubs, committees peopled by volunteer clubmen and clubwomen, some ex-players etc, some are run with an owner/major investor at the top and some are a mix of both.
I don't think the Irish model would work for England - or at least it won't now. If the RFU were to contract all the professional players in a, say, 20 team system divided between two tiers you're talking about 800 players at least - the wage bill alone would be astronomical. I don't think a hybrid model, similar to Wales would work either - even the welsh don't think it works for them.
I think the best solution is along french lines, with a financial watchdog as part of the DCMS
I don't think it's quite correct to hold up Orrell as a model of a club that realised how things were going and cut their cloth accordingly. They too were tempted by the lure of professionalism, sold themselves to Dave Whelan and Maurice Lindsay of Wigan Warriors/Athletic and ended up losing their ground to the Wigan Warriors academy. They now play in a sixth form college
Dave Cahill wrote: ↑October 24th, 2022, 4:39 pm
I'm not sure that there is an 'English model' to be honest. Some clubs are run like our local clubs, committees peopled by volunteer clubmen and clubwomen, some ex-players etc, some are run with an owner/major investor at the top and some are a mix of both.
I don't think the Irish model would work for England - or at least it won't now. If the RFU were to contract all the professional players in a, say, 20 team system divided between two tiers you're talking about 800 players at least - the wage bill alone would be astronomical. I don't think a hybrid model, similar to Wales would work either - even the welsh don't think it works for them.
I think the best solution is along french lines, with a financial watchdog as part of the DCMS
I don't think it's quite correct to hold up Orrell as a model of a club that realised how things were going and cut their cloth accordingly. They too were tempted by the lure of professionalism, sold themselves to Dave Whelan and Maurice Lindsay of Wigan Warriors/Athletic and ended up losing their ground to the Wigan Warriors academy. They now play in a sixth form college
Yeah but at 28m annually to the clubs and a further 5m for the english players they're getting pretty close to a place where they could run 4-5 of their own teams. Not that they'd want to.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014 Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
Wasps: Bondholders asked for more money to stave off stadium business liquidation
Bondholders owed £35m by Wasps have been asked for more money as the threat of liquidation looms over the Coventry Building Society Arena stadium business.
A letter from bondholder trustee, US Bank Trustees Limited, to bondholders said the funding was needed to continue to market the stadium to potential investors or new owners.
Parent company Wasps Holdings has already entered administration - with debts reported as running into nine figures.
That resulted in all the players and coaching staff at the rugby club being released from their contracts as administrators FRP were appointed on October 17.
But the companies which make up the stadium business - Arena Coventry Limited and Arena Coventry (2006) - are not yet in administration and continue to operate, with Championship football club Coventry City continuing to play their home games at the CBS Arena.
The letter to bondholders read: "In the absence of receipt of additional funding in short order, it may not be possible to continue marketing the assets which form part of the security.
"In such event, the statutory purpose of administration may not be capable of being achieved and the directors of Arena Coventry Limited and/or Arena Coventry (2006) Limited may have no choice other than to apply to court for an order placing ACL and/or ACL2006 into compulsory liquidation."
The letter also said any additional funding supplied would not receive priority when it comes to repayment over existing bondholder debts - which were originally due to be repaid in May. Another interest payment of around £1m is also due next month.
The stadium companies have until Monday to secure funding, or a new buyer, for the stadium or they too could enter administration.
But an application could be made to the Insolvency Court for another extension to that deadline if they can show new funding, or a takeover deal, is close to being agreed.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
The administrators/trustees are more interested in extorting connected businesses than in finding a sustainable resolution. Administrators only obligation is to some of the debt holders.
That's why they made no effort to operate Wasps at reduced costs. Shuttering Wasps has had a knock on effect on the stadium company. And it's somehow unthinkable that the company could continue to allow football to be played which is actual income that will be put towards debts.
Administrators can tear up contracts and burn holders of unprotected debts.
Steve Diamond launches bid to save Worcester Warriors
Exclusive: Diamond is working on a three-pronged bid with former shirt sponsor Adam Hewitt and a London-based investor
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014 Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
Steve Diamond launches bid to save Worcester Warriors
Exclusive: Diamond is working on a three-pronged bid with former shirt sponsor Adam Hewitt and a London-based investor
Ex Leicester Tigers boss Simon Cohen involved with one of the bids
Dan Biggar is rumoured to be joining Toulon immediately. Now Toulon obviously have a lot of money as evidenced by how they bought Kolbe, but is this another sign that the entire league is in trouble?
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 3:27 pm
Dan Biggar is rumoured to be joining Toulon immediately. Now Toulon obviously have a lot of money as evidenced by how they bought Kolbe, but is this another sign that the entire league is in trouble?
Biggar was due to leave at the end of the season and Saints have signed the Worcester 10 Finn Smith on a multi year deal.
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 3:27 pm
Dan Biggar is rumoured to be joining Toulon immediately. Now Toulon obviously have a lot of money as evidenced by how they bought Kolbe, but is this another sign that the entire league is in trouble?
Biggar was due to leave at the end of the season and Saints have signed the Worcester 10 Finn Smith on a multi year deal.
I'm aware of that but do you not think it's a bit odd that a team in 5th would be willing to let their experienced Lions outhalf go mid season? The Champions Cup hasn't even started yet. As I said, Toulon have a lot of money so it could just be that it's good business for everyone, but everything combined makes me think they NEED the cash.
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 3:27 pm
Dan Biggar is rumoured to be joining Toulon immediately. Now Toulon obviously have a lot of money as evidenced by how they bought Kolbe, but is this another sign that the entire league is in trouble?
If a player is injured and leaving at the end of the season and you have already signed someone you consider their replacement (from Worcester) and will go on international duty for 5 games later in the season and the player wants to leave early I think letting him go might make a fair degree of sense.
I would think it might say more about Toulon than it does about the English league.
It might also be a move to free up cap space and sign one or two more new players from Wasps/Worcester
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 3:27 pm
Dan Biggar is rumoured to be joining Toulon immediately. Now Toulon obviously have a lot of money as evidenced by how they bought Kolbe, but is this another sign that the entire league is in trouble?
It's a bit suss alright. Saints are IIRC one of the least indebted clubs
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014 Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 3:27 pm
Dan Biggar is rumoured to be joining Toulon immediately. Now Toulon obviously have a lot of money as evidenced by how they bought Kolbe, but is this another sign that the entire league is in trouble?
If a player is injured and leaving at the end of the season and you have already signed someone you consider their replacement (from Worcester) and will go on international duty for 5 games later in the season and the player wants to leave early I think letting him go might make a fair degree of sense.
I would think it might say more about Toulon than it does about the English league.
It might also be a move to free up cap space and sign one or two more new players from Wasps/Worcester
The injury can't be that bad if Toulon are willing to sign him early though? I would understand if they were replacing like with like but Smith is only 20. I don't see how you could make a plan for the season and then rip it up so soon.
I can get on board with your last point though alright, that would certainly make it seem better but it remains to be seen.
I don't think the injury was that bad. He was due back before Christmas. It's just a factor and certain people in management have to be asking what they will get from Biggar and if the cash could be used better elsewhere.
If he is injured now and will only be back 6 weeks before the six Nations. Then he will be gone for most of two months.
Toulon are looking hard for a outhalf. They almost signed Jantjies recently too.
The Northampton fans seem to think it doesn't get them more cap space as marquee status had to be assigned during the summer.
naraic wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 4:21 pm
I don't think the injury was that bad. He was due back before Christmas. It's just a factor and certain people in management have to be asking what they will get from Biggar and if the cash could be used better elsewhere.
If he is injured now and will only be back 6 weeks before the six Nations. Then he will be gone for most of two months.
Toulon are looking hard for a outhalf. They almost signed Jantjies recently too.
The Northampton fans seem to think it doesn't get them more cap space as marquee status had to be assigned during the summer.
That means he could be back for the Champions Cup though and you could apply some of that reasoning to any international player. I could understand it if it was in a few months time and they were out of Europe and weren't in with a chance of making the GP play offs but to be willing to let him go now, which is just a rumour tbf, doesn't seem right to me.
It could also be a personal thing I suppose, if Biggar kicked up a fuss because he needs to go now to make the big bucks then maybe that's a factor. Personally I wouldn't be letting him go unless the club really needed the cash though.
naraic wrote: ↑October 27th, 2022, 4:21 pm
I don't think the injury was that bad. He was due back before Christmas. It's just a factor and certain people in management have to be asking what they will get from Biggar and if the cash could be used better elsewhere.
If he is injured now and will only be back 6 weeks before the six Nations. Then he will be gone for most of two months.
Toulon are looking hard for a outhalf. They almost signed Jantjies recently too.
The Northampton fans seem to think it doesn't get them more cap space as marquee status had to be assigned during the summer.
Dunno how their respective age/injury profiles stack up, but I'd take Biggar any day before Jantjies.
