Ulster Rugby 2013/2014

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I don't think he did run flat out into a guy who was jumping in the air though. Well, technically that's what happened but Payne was running straight ahead and Goode was coming at an angle, it was Goode who jumped in front of Payne's run. Now I'm not saying that Goode was at fault, still think it was reckless from Payne because he had to look at some stage but I just think it was a very unfortunate set of circumstances that led to a horrible collision. This kind of thing happens all the time, it just looked worse because of the speed Payne was going at and the fall that Goode had.

I'd love to know what took Garces so long to send Payne off. Surely if there's any doubt about it being a red or not then you can't give a red? I do agree that the apparent injury influenced his decision. Think Goode was receiving oxygen at one point, if you're a ref and you see that as you're making your mind up, it must have an impact.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I think red was harsh but understandable, he was never going to make the jump and should have checked his run.

I've never considered this such a grey area before but it shouldn't really be the case that Payne could have looked up, jumped and clattered into Goode and that been okay. Same with guys being taken out in the air at the line out or Botha taking out one of the ulster second rows at a restart just being a penalty.

I wonder what difference there is in the rule that deals with Payne's challenge and the Botha one?

[offshorerules]

I think red was harsh but understandable, he was never going to make the jump and should have checked his run.

I've never considered this such a grey area before but it shouldn't really be the case that Payne could have looked up, jumped and clattered into Goode and that been okay. Same with guys being taken out in the air at the line out or Botha taking out one of the ulster second rows at a restart just being a penalty.

I wonder what difference there is in the rule that deals with Payne's challenge and the Botha one?

One was a tackle the other obstruction.

[PCASEY]

I think red was harsh but understandable, he was never going to make the jump and should have checked his run.

I've never considered this such a grey area before but it shouldn't really be the case that Payne could have looked up, jumped and clattered into Goode and that been okay. Same with guys being taken out in the air at the line out or Botha taking out one of the ulster second rows at a restart just being a penalty.

I wonder what difference there is in the rule that deals with Payne's challenge and the Botha one?

in todays game kearney and one of the toulon players (armitage?), run with their eyes on the ball, jump and clatter into each other mid air and both land in a heap on the ground. How's that any different to what payne did?

[rookie]

I think red was harsh but understandable, he was never going to make the jump and should have checked his run.

I've never considered this such a grey area before but it shouldn't really be the case that Payne could have looked up, jumped and clattered into Goode and that been okay. Same with guys being taken out in the air at the line out or Botha taking out one of the ulster second rows at a restart just being a penalty.

I wonder what difference there is in the rule that deals with Payne's challenge and the Botha one?

in todays game kearney and one of the toulon players (armitage?), run with their eyes on the ball, jump and clatter into each other mid air and both land in a heap on the ground. How's that any different to what payne did?

Payne had his feet on the ground.

[Jackie Brown]

I've never considered this such a grey area before but it shouldn't really be the case that Payne could have looked up, jumped and clattered into Goode and that been okay. Same with guys being taken out in the air at the line out or Botha taking out one of the ulster second rows at a restart just being a penalty.

I wonder what difference there is in the rule that deals with Payne's challenge and the Botha one?

in todays game kearney and one of the toulon players (armitage?), run with their eyes on the ball, jump and clatter into each other mid air and both land in a heap on the ground. How's that any different to what payne did?

Payne had his feet on the ground.

Hard to jump when you slip.

[JB1973]

Payne had his feet on the ground.[/quote]

Hard to jump when you slip.[/quote]


he didn't slip though, he just ran after the ball without looking at the man jumping for it.

Payne is a good enough player to realise he either had to check his run or get his feet of the floor and try to jump and challenge for the ball

It was a reckless challenge and he's quite lucky he didn't injure himself let alone goode. running face first into an opponents knees is not a method of defence I have ever been coached!

btw i'm still not convinced it was a red but you can see why a ref would make that call

http://balls.ie/rugby/gif-jared-payne-r ... 4-minutes/

[the spoofer]

Not for one second did I think it was a red. It was an accident. If Goode hadn't jumped into Payne, Payne would have been in the location in which the ball would have landed. It was just one of those things that happen in a contact sport.

[JB1973]

payne should have been aware of where goode was, he could then have either jumped to challenge for the ball or checked his run let goode land and then tackled him he did neither. Accident or not you do have a duty of care to your opponents and to yourself on that field you simply cannot run head first into a player whose in the air jumping for the ball.

[Jackie Brown]

Surely if you have a duty of care to yourself you shouldn't be jumping into opposition players.

[Jackie Brown]

Where will it end?

[hugonaut]

Not for one second did I think it was a red. It was an accident. If Goode hadn't jumped into Payne, Payne would have been in the location in which the ball would have landed. It was just one of those things that happen in a contact sport.

Yeah, just one of those things. I felt very sorry for Payne and Ulster [and Alex Goode too, who did absolutely nothing wrong and took a very nasty fall], but I thought that the red card was a brutal call. Not too concerned whether it happened in the 4th minute or the 74th minute, wouldn't have given a red card in either circumstance. If it had been Alex Goode clattering into Payne, I wouldn't have thought it was a red card either.

[JB1973]

Surely if you have a duty of care to yourself you shouldn't be jumping into opposition players.

As opposed to running into them face first you mean?

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Surely if you have a duty of care to yourself you shouldn't be jumping into opposition players.

Some will say that's flippant but I agree. Goode couldn't possibly have been unaware that he was going to take contact by the time he jumped. There was no way Payne was going to be able to slow down. Not saying the onus was on Goode and still think Payne should have been more aware of his surroundings but I don't think that being airborne should suddenly give you complete protection from the ref. They both went in full blooded and played their part in what happened. You're talking split seconds in terms of one of them not reacting and it ending like it did.

[Lar]

Agreed. If Payne's hands were not out in front for an attempt to catch the ball arguably he would have run head first into Goode's raised left knee and that could have knocked Payne clean out.

I don't get this duty of care thing when it comes to challenging for a high ball. Both players were (and should have been) focussed on catching the ball. Totally different to a tip tackle. That is a deliberate tackle on a player and if the player goes past the horizontal you clearly owe him a duty to bring him back to ground safely.

Payne (like all jumping catchers) leads with his left leg. If Payne's arms were not leading in front of him in an attempt to catch the ball Goode's knee was heading straight for Payne's head. The concussion could have been on the other head literally with a miniscule difference in the player's positioning.

For Payne to receive the severest sanction in the referee's book for a total accident is very harsh.

In the second half Brits slipped as he went into a tackle from Trimble. Trimble was pole-axed and had to go off concussed. While the play continued and he got treatment Ulster had to defend 13 against 15 (I think this was the series of play which ended with Saracens held up). But that was a total accident. These things happen in rugby. It is a serious contact sport.

[the spoofer]

Agreed. If Payne's hands were not out in front for an attempt to catch the ball arguably he would have run head first into Goode's raised left knee and that could have knocked Payne clean out.

I don't get this duty of care thing when it comes to challenging for a high ball. Both players were (and should have been) focussed on catching the ball. Totally different to a tip tackle. That is a deliberate tackle on a player and if the player goes past the horizontal you clearly owe him a duty to bring him back to ground safely.

Payne (like all jumping catchers) leads with his left leg. If Payne's arms were not leading in front of him in an attempt to catch the ball Goode's knee was heading straight for Payne's head. The concussion could have been on the other head literally with a miniscule difference in the player's positioning.

For Payne to receive the severest sanction in the referee's book for a total accident is very harsh.

In the second half Brits slipped as he went into a tackle from Trimble. Trimble was pole-axed and had to go off concussed. While the play continued and he got treatment Ulster had to defend 13 against 15 (I think this was the series of play which ended with Saracens held up). But that was a total accident. These things happen in rugby. It is a serious contact sport.

Its a good point, if Goodes knee had connected with Payne, there wouldnt have been many calls for a red even though it would be regarded as careless/dangerous. Payne was fully committed, he didnt attempt to take the player out, it was an accident and a better ref (ie not French!) would have seen it as such. There is no way Nigel would have sent him off.

[JB1973]

Agreed. If Payne's hands were not out in front for an attempt to catch the ball arguably he would have run head first into Goode's raised left knee and that could have knocked Payne clean out.

I don't get this duty of care thing when it comes to challenging for a high ball. Both players were (and should have been) focussed on catching the ball. Totally different to a tip tackle. That is a deliberate tackle on a player and if the player goes past the horizontal you clearly owe him a duty to bring him back to ground safely.

Payne (like all jumping catchers) leads with his left leg. If Payne's arms were not leading in front of him in an attempt to catch the ball Goode's knee was heading straight for Payne's head. The concussion could have been on the other head literally with a miniscule difference in the player's positioning.

For Payne to receive the severest sanction in the referee's book for a total accident is very harsh.

In the second half Brits slipped as he went into a tackle from Trimble. Trimble was pole-axed and had to go off concussed. While the play continued and he got treatment Ulster had to defend 13 against 15 (I think this was the series of play which ended with Saracens held up). But that was a total accident. These things happen in rugby. It is a serious contact sport.

Its a good point, if Goodes knee had connected with Payne, there wouldnt have been many calls for a red even though it would be regarded as careless/dangerous. Payne was fully committed, he didnt attempt to take the player out, it was an accident and a better ref (ie not French!) would have seen it as such. There is no way Nigel would have sent him off.

The bottom line is payne did take the player out whether he attempted to or not, accident or not, he did take the man in the air. The matter of intent does not come into it in terms of him being penalised.

Where did payne expect the sarries full back to be? it was a up and under in the middle of the field of course he was going to be in position to try and take the high ball! Payne should have at least had a look to see where he was and then he could have either tried to jump and challenge for the ball or let him land and tackle him.. He didn't and he ran into him taking the guy out in mid air as shown on the link . I know it's a sickener to take for Ulster fans and I'm not saying it was a red for sure but I can't see how anyone can say Payne is not at least partly to blame in this situation, it was a pretty brainless piece of play tbh

[simonokeeffe]

the important thing now is Payne gets suspended for our trip to ravenhill but is available the following week

[rooster]

the important thing now is Payne gets suspended for our trip to ravenhill but is available the following week

Well we won't have Best, Wilson, Pienaar or Touhy for a start off anyway so at least give us Payne

[simonokeeffe]

the important thing now is Payne gets suspended for our trip to ravenhill but is available the following week

Well we won't have Best, Wilson, Pienaar or Touhy for a start off anyway so at least give us Payne

nope
you have your fancy new stands now be content with that
are Black and Fitzpatrick out injured too?

main thing is no Pienaar, Ulster without Pienaar are like a 99 without any ice cream