Munster 2013/2014

[simonokeeffe]

Foley a shoe in BUT they need a dedicated scrum coach too (not just Botha double jobbing) and the key appointment will be backs and/or skills coach

[Donny B.]

Scene: Munster dressing room, first day of pre-season

Deccie enters the room to a hushed silence from the players.

He walks straight up to the managers desk and picks up a red binder with "Penney's gameplan" on it.

Slowly he walks to the bin and chucks the binder into it with force.

He turns to the players

"Forget everything you've learned in the last two years!"

[Golf Man]

Just heard that they only offered 1 year extension because of the problem with competition (or possible lack thereof) next year. Doesn't quite line up with players being offered extensions (but then I've also been told that the newly signed players have release clauses from both parties in them) but seeing as Anscombe only got a 1 year extension then maybe there is something in it

Kidney isn't going to happen

EOS as a backs coach might

Foley will be head coach - a bit early but was going to happen. I wouldn't see his appointment as jobs for the boys - he has been in the backroom team for 5 years now - would have preferred it to be 2 or 3 years from now but....

ROG getting straight in would be jobs for the boys - don't see that happening

On the bright side (and I'm really reaching here) - Munster leading the way in the development of home grown coaches????

Complete balls of a situation really

[simonokeeffe]

Just heard that they only offered 1 year extension because of the problem with competition (or possible lack thereof) next year. Doesn't quite line up with players being offered extensions (but then I've also been told that the newly signed players have release clauses from both parties in them) but seeing as Anscombe only got a 1 year extension then maybe there is something in it

Kidney isn't going to happen

EOS as a backs coach might

Foley will be head coach - a bit early but was going to happen. I wouldn't see his appointment as jobs for the boys - he has been in the backroom team for 5 years now - would have preferred it to be 2 or 3 years from now but....

ROG getting straight in would be jobs for the boys - don't see that happening

On the bright side (and I'm really reaching here) - Munster leading the way in the development of home grown coaches????

Complete balls of a situation really

Anscombe very vocal about him seeing Ulster as a 3 year job (Assuming then he wants S15 job next)

Dougie Howlett worth a go as a backs coach?

[Oldschool]

Scene: Munster dressing room, first day of pre-season

Deccie enters the room to a hushed silence from the players.

He walks straight up to the managers desk and picks up a red binder with "Penney's gameplan" on it.

Slowly he walks to the bin and chucks the binder into it with force.

He turns to the players

"Forget everything you've learned in the last two years!"

Slightly more likely scene:-
Foley enters the room to a hushed silence from the players.

He walks straight up to the managers desk and picks up a red binder with "Penney's gameplan" on it.

Slowly he walks to the bin and chucks the binder into it with force.

He turns to the players

"Forget everything you've learned in the last two years!"

Munster is in a bit of a bind on this. They may have to make a short term local appointment until the Rabo/Hec mess is sorted.
The problem then is that if Penney's moving on is symptomatic of a problem of acceptance of foreign coaches from NZ (for instance) then there is a major problem. It starts to look a bit like the RRW tail trying to wag the WRU dog.
I remember when Penney was first appointed Foley looking furious in a TV interview.
The arrogance of the man to think for one minute he was ready for the role of manager of Munster (at the time) would worry me.
I thought then that Penney was going to have trouble with him. Then last season and even this season Frankie kept on muttering about a meeting of minds somewhere in the middle. Either Penney was the boss or he wasn't, there is no middle ground here. Have any of you ever tried to tell your boss something along the lines of I'll only do it if you compromise on this this and this. Try it if you haven't sometime and see what happens.
When player power kicks in the result is ultimately going to be failure.
I've no idea now what the mood between Penney and the players is but I suspect it may well be a happy release for both.
The problem is "What is to do" for the future, whither Munster rugby?
Somebody suggested that Connacht should contact David Humphreys and Mick Dawson to look for some advice, perhaps this might be an opportune moment for both Connacht and Munster to make those contacts. Dawson is the longest serving, has made his mistakes along the and has shown he's an extremely capable individual with wealth of experience. Humphreys has been very shrewd so far. His over reliance on Boks could be a problem but I'd say he has a strategy in place.
This could be a watershed, seminal mtime in Munster rugby's history.
All I can say is that I honesty hope you get it right. Do the right thing because it's the right thing to do.

[kendalgerty]

Bit of a mess this. Main issue is that Penney had them building towards a very specific gameplan, so question is do they try to keep going down this road (then who to bring in? Someone else from Canterbury rugby ethos?) or go down a different route (effectively throw the last two years development in the bin?). It looks like he's leaving a job half done. Must be very frustrating for the players, especially the likes of O'Mahony and O'Donnell who have come a long way under his tutelage. Foley is the obvious solution I guess, but does he have the same rugby philosophy as Penney?

[johng]

Just heard that they only offered 1 year extension because of the problem with competition

Him and Anscombe signed 2 year deals with the option of a 3rd year. Anscombe stayed he didn't. Simples.

Nowt to do with the mess in European rugby.

Not saying that had no part in Penny's decision to leave, but it had nothing to do with the fact he was offered a 1 year. That was decided before he even signed his original deal.

[Oldschool]

If it was going to be a "local" ticket what is the likely coaching ticket and what would be the preferred "local" ticket.
Head coach, defense coach, backs coach etc.
Local might include ex foreign players like Jim Williams or Dougie Howlett or jason? Holland (Inside centre of a few years ago) for example.

[All Blacks nil]

If it was going to be a "local" ticket what is the likely coaching ticket and what would be the preferred "local" ticket.
Head coach, defense coach, backs coach etc.
Local might include ex foreign players like Jim Williams or Dougie Howlett or jason? Holland (Inside centre of a few years ago) for example.

Ian Costelloe will be on the ticket

[simonokeeffe]

If it was going to be a "local" ticket what is the likely coaching ticket and what would be the preferred "local" ticket.
Head coach, defense coach, backs coach etc.
Local might include ex foreign players like Jim Williams or Dougie Howlett or jason? Holland (Inside centre of a few years ago) for example.

wasnt Dutchy Holland tried and rejected as a backs coach there before?

[hugonaut]

Sounds like it is more for personal/family reasons. If he was only going to be offered the 1 year extension and there was an option to move back nearer home for a longer contract maybe he just weighed it up and decided to go. If it was just a one year extension being offered then it doesn't fill you with confidence that they want you around long term so maybe he thought it best to get out when his stock is rising. If a new coach comes in with a different philosophy then it could set Munster back, I'd assume the continuity will be Foley.

Sounds like he felt he wasn't getting the support he deserved from the Branch/players. One year extension when players are getting three year deals?

It's a fair point. They're top of the league and have a home quarter-final in the Heineken Cup. It's unreasonable to ask for anything more than that, and I think results in that vein deserve a better offer than a one year deal – what's he supposed to do, win every single game?

I think Foley is a very good forwards coach and will probably be a good head man, but it seems like the Munster squad have just got the hang of what Penney was trying to instill since he arrived. Changing head coach again is a risky move.

[TrapperChamonix]

What was Axels relationship like with The Dagger? I'm assuming their International careers overlapped to a large degree.

[All Blacks nil]

What was Axels relationship like with The Dagger? I'm assuming their International careers overlapped to a large degree.

He called time on his Irish career in 2005, but at 32 and a 10 year career not exactly unreasonable. He was replaced at the time by Leamy.

EOS divides opinion big time down here in Munster. Personally I think his exposure to Clive Woodward's methods on the 2005 Lions tour tied him up in knots.

A bit like Garrett Fitzgerald said to Dick Spring " that's all right in practice Dick, but will it work in theory".

First came to Limerick in the early 80's and acquired the nickname 'beach boy' on account of his golden locks and impossibly tight and short shorts. He had some pace and as a coach was right up there as a backs coach. Possible assistant to Foley.
He needs as he would say himself to get back on the merry go round soon before the man pulls the plug.

[johng]

Simon Zebo, Gerhard van den Heever, Casey Laulala, Denis Hurley, Johne Murphy; JJ Hanrahan, Duncan Williams; Dave Kilcoyne, Duncan Casey, Stephen Archer; Donncha O'Callaghan, Dave Foley; CJ Stander, Barry O'Mahony, James Coughlan (Capt.).Replacements: Ger Slattery, James Cronin, John Ryan, Billy Holland, Sean Dougall, Cathal Sheridan, Ian Keatley, Andrew Conway.

Conway on the bench in the 6n? Oldschool still sending the tenners to the Hurley to 12 campaign.

That team will beat Cardiff by way more than we will beat the zebras.

[janeymac08]

What was Axels relationship like with The Dagger? I'm assuming their International careers overlapped to a large degree.

Axel went from being asked to captain the side to being dropped from the 22 by text message. Barry Murphy is very funny about describing the drive back to Limerick after that with him

Simon Easterby was an injury doubt, but was brought in to captain the side instead of him and Axel was out the door.

From the podium when celebrating the 2006 Heineken Cup win, Axel said "Eddie, are you watching''

Of course, Axel doesn't do bitter though

[janeymac08]

If it was going to be a "local" ticket what is the likely coaching ticket and what would be the preferred "local" ticket.
Head coach, defense coach, backs coach etc.
Local might include ex foreign players like Jim Williams or Dougie Howlett or jason? Holland (Inside centre of a few years ago) for example.

wasnt Dutchy Holland tried and rejected as a backs coach there before?

Maybe it wasn't all Dutchy's fault. He is now backs coach for Canterbury (who won the ITM cup again).

[Broken Wing]

If he was only going to be offered the 1 year extension and there was an option to move back nearer home for a longer contract maybe he just weighed it up and decided to go.

His initial contract was 2 years with the option of a 3rd. He decided not to take up the 3rd when a better offer came in. I don't think Munster were in a position to match the new offer but that's not to say they were only offering a year.

[Oldschool]

Simon Zebo, Gerhard van den Heever, Casey Laulala, Denis Hurley, Johne Murphy; JJ Hanrahan, Duncan Williams; Dave Kilcoyne, Duncan Casey, Stephen Archer; Donncha O'Callaghan, Dave Foley; CJ Stander, Barry O'Mahony, James Coughlan (Capt.).Replacements: Ger Slattery, James Cronin, John Ryan, Billy Holland, Sean Dougall, Cathal Sheridan, Ian Keatley, Andrew Conway.

Conway on the bench in the 6n? Oldschool still sending the tenners to the Hurley to 12 campaign.

That team will beat Cardiff by way more than we will beat the zebras.

Should I up the ante a bit and run another campaign "Introducing Your New Backs Coach" Denis Hurley

[munster#1]

i think foley would make a very good head coach, he is touted by many as the most intelligent player to take to the field. I don't understand how people have an opinion that foley will revert to 10 man rugby, sure that is the rugby he played, but that does not mean that that is all he knows.

There is talk of kidney been given the director of rugby job with foley getting the head coaches job, for me that would be a great move. i would like dougie to have some role, but not straight in as backs coach, EOS would be a good call there if were were staying local imo.

[fourthirtythree]

As long as Kidney has nothing to do with selecting the team or coaching them he'll be grand.