Munster Thread 2011-2012

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Mauler
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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by Mauler »

munster#1 wrote:Don't get me wrong, i do rate cronin, he is a very good ball carrier, he just annoys me the way he is blind to what's around him when he makes the breaks.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_u ... 987754.stm
Check out 1m:06sec of this bbc highlights clip from last weekend.

The pace and angle which he spilt the two Cardiff defenders was excellent. He was not just prepared to make 30m and look for contact, he drew in two more defenders and played a lovely inside ball to Sexton.
Something tells me that he might be relishing being coached by and playing with people who want to run with the ball rather than stick it up the jumper ... Oldschool style.
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deco
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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by deco »

There'll be a rush of Munster fans booking flights to London:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/ ... 03774.html
Calendar of Leinster/Ireland fixtures: https://calendar.google.com/calendar?ci ... Z2xlLmNvbQ

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Mauler
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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by Mauler »

deco wrote:There'll be a rush of Munster fans booking flights to London:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/ ... 03774.html
I wonder if the Amlin Final will be played in the RDS next season when the H Cup Final is on in Lansdowne?
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Dexter
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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by Dexter »

Mauler wrote:
deco wrote:There'll be a rush of Munster fans booking flights to London:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/ ... 03774.html
I wonder if the Amlin Final will be played in the RDS next season when the H Cup Final is on in Lansdowne?
Good call actually. The Stoop has a capacity of just under 15k, so no issues with size. Just down the road from LR, sounds ideal.
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kendalgerty
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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by kendalgerty »

All a bit fanciful, best-case-scenario, pie in the sky stuff therre M#1. There's no guarantees that Sherry would have displaced Varley by now - even when Varley was being heavily criticised last year, he still made the starting team for the ML final. It's easy to get over-excited based on a few cameos, it's a different story when the pressure's on in high-octane HEC matches. The same happened with Varley, everyone was campaigning for him to jump Fogs in the pecking order, but with greater exposure to difficult situations his game started to creak. Sherry will be focussed on getting fit and into the Munster 22 and little else for a the next few months.

Even were he to achieve everything you say in this parallel universe and get into the Ireland squad, the notion of Kidney giving game time to his third choice hooker is a non-starter. He barely gives his second-choice a minute.
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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by nelly the elephant »

deco wrote:There'll be a rush of Munster fans booking flights to London:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/ ... 03774.html

Oooohh you are naughty! :wink: :lol:
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hugonaut
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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by hugonaut »

kendalgerty wrote:All a bit fanciful, best-case-scenario, pie in the sky stuff therre M#1. There's no guarantees that Sherry would have displaced Varley by now - even when Varley was being heavily criticised last year, he still made the starting team for the ML final. It's easy to get over-excited based on a few cameos, it's a different story when the pressure's on in high-octane HEC matches. The same happened with Varley, everyone was campaigning for him to jump Fogs in the pecking order, but with greater exposure to difficult situations his game started to creak. Sherry will be focussed on getting fit and into the Munster 22 and little else for a the next few months.

Even were he to achieve everything you say in this parallel universe and get into the Ireland squad, the notion of Kidney giving game time to his third choice hooker is a non-starter. He barely gives his second-choice a minute.
He's a talented player alright, but he hasn't played much professional rugby. He's had 8 professional starts at first-grade level: not at all bad for a 23-year old hooker, but too small a sample size to really judge just how good he is at the moment. I have little doubt he'll turn out to be a very good player, but he could really have done without this injury in order to press his claims over Varley to McGahan and Foley.

Best had an absolutely magnificent World Cup – they were the best [hoho!] performances I've seen from an Irish hooker in a good while, better even than Flannery's in 2009 [in my opinion]. Best is now in the strongest pole position I can remember a hooker being in since Keith Wood was in place, well clear of the rest of the pack in Ireland. There are plenty of good hookers around, even with Smit, Ledesma and Thompson retired – Bismarck is the standout for me, with Servat one rung down – but Best is in the chasing group with Stephen Moore, Kevin Mealamu and Andrew "Tis Pity She's A" Hore.

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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by ronk »

Jason Harris-Wright. 23, (slightly) younger than Sherry, didn't want to be 3rd choice so he went off to Bristol.

Got two less starts than Sherry last season, one less sub appearance. Considering he was on the way out and we didn't have hookers on international duty, he wasn't far off.

It is so, so easy to hype.

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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by hugonaut »

ronk wrote:Jason Harris-Wright. 23, (slightly) younger than Sherry, didn't want to be 3rd choice so he went off to Bristol.

Got two less starts than Sherry last season, one less sub appearance. Considering he was on the way out and we didn't have hookers on international duty, he wasn't far off.

It is so, so easy to hype.
Pretty much unrelated, but Denis Fogs ought to consider trying his hand at loosehead. He's a good front-rower in a number of ways, but just a brutal thrower as a hooker. He's 28, so could very conceivably get five more years at provincial level as a guy who could cover both positions. I realize that with 23 man squads, front-row flexibility isn't anywhere near as important as it used to be, but Munster are pretty thin at loosehead behind du Preez. Horan is 34 and a shadow of the player he was in 2009, and Darragh Hurley is the biggest sick-note in Irish rugby.

Fogs Jnr has actually got a strange mix of experience and low miles on the clock: he has been at Munster since the 04-05 season [he played his first games for the province in November 2004, seven years ago], has seen gametime in eight seasons, has more than 80 Munster caps, but has only started 40 times in all that time. With Best, Cronin, Varley all unquestionably ahead of him – and Strauss and Sherry likely to be added to that queue next season – the ship has sailed on his international career.

Ronk, I know you're a front-rower – a possibility at this level?

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munster#1
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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by munster#1 »

kendalgerty wrote:All a bit fanciful, best-case-scenario, pie in the sky stuff therre M#1. There's no guarantees that Sherry would have displaced Varley by now - even when Varley was being heavily criticised last year, he still made the starting team for the ML final. It's easy to get over-excited based on a few cameos, it's a different story when the pressure's on in high-octane HEC matches. The same happened with Varley, everyone was campaigning for him to jump Fogs in the pecking order, but with greater exposure to difficult situations his game started to creak. Sherry will be focussed on getting fit and into the Munster 22 and little else for a the next few months.

Even were he to achieve everything you say in this parallel universe and get into the Ireland squad, the notion of Kidney giving game time to his third choice hooker is a non-starter. He barely gives his second-choice a minute.
Imo he had already passed varley out, he was playing much better than varley and was getting starts during the rwc. Many munster fans were saying that sherry should have been called up instead of varley.

I was not saying that he would get a cap during the 6n with both best and cronin fit, but as 3rd choice he would have a good chance given best injury record.

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munster#1
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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by munster#1 »

ronk wrote:Jason Harris-Wright. 23, (slightly) younger than Sherry, didn't want to be 3rd choice so he went off to Bristol.

Got two less starts than Sherry last season, one less sub appearance. Considering he was on the way out and we didn't have hookers on international duty, he wasn't far off.

It is so, so easy to hype.
Not sure where you are going with this? Are you trying to claim that games playes are a direct measurement of a players ability?
I know you look at things differently to most, but surely the fact that sherry got called up to the rwc camp would be a better comparrison?

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TerenureJim
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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by TerenureJim »

Slightly moving away from hooker issues, I posted this on another thread and just wonder what peoples thought's are re player management down South...
Will be interesting to see what the story is were Munster to ship an injury and look to get Stringer back only to find him more than likely cup tied for the HEC.

While I don't really put much stock in the TOL to France rumours you'd have to argue that there must be some problems at certain levels in the set up down there if they look like loosing two international scum halves (granted one who's lost a lot of form). I don't understand why they can't rotate the squad between firsts and "A" teams to give game time and keep people happy and develop at the same time. We seem to be able to do it under Joe and under Chieka to a certain extent as well.

Seems to be a (mis)management issue going on down South.

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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

I'd be of the opinion that keeping Stringer with the A team when he had a chance to play for Saracens would have been an insult to a great servant. Agree that they should rotate more though, particularly the front five.

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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by kendalgerty »

munster#1 wrote: Imo he had already passed varley out, he was playing much better than varley and was getting starts during the rwc. Many munster fans were saying that sherry should have been called up instead of varley.
Which, again, is totally fanciful! This smacks of ridiculous overhype of a talented but utterly unproven player.
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ronk
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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by ronk »

hugonaut wrote:
ronk wrote:Jason Harris-Wright. 23, (slightly) younger than Sherry, didn't want to be 3rd choice so he went off to Bristol.

Got two less starts than Sherry last season, one less sub appearance. Considering he was on the way out and we didn't have hookers on international duty, he wasn't far off.

It is so, so easy to hype.
Pretty much unrelated, but Denis Fogs ought to consider trying his hand at loosehead. He's a good front-rower in a number of ways, but just a brutal thrower as a hooker. He's 28, so could very conceivably get five more years at provincial level as a guy who could cover both positions. I realize that with 23 man squads, front-row flexibility isn't anywhere near as important as it used to be, but Munster are pretty thin at loosehead behind du Preez. Horan is 34 and a shadow of the player he was in 2009, and Darragh Hurley is the biggest sick-note in Irish rugby.

Fogs Jnr has actually got a strange mix of experience and low miles on the clock: he has been at Munster since the 04-05 season [he played his first games for the province in November 2004, seven years ago], has seen gametime in eight seasons, has more than 80 Munster caps, but has only started 40 times in all that time. With Best, Cronin, Varley all unquestionably ahead of him – and Strauss and Sherry likely to be added to that queue next season – the ship has sailed on his international career.

Ronk, I know you're a front-rower – a possibility at this level?
Me a possibility? No. J3 give or take two teams.

Fogs Jr? Not really. He's not that powerful and anyone that size would have to be really, really technical. Munster appear to be going down the route of building their scrum through the front row, Fogarty would be a step back.

The hookers who move/interchange generally tend to be a lot heavier (almost 2 stone). At 28 he's really only entering the timeframe where many hookers make the step up. Flannery was 27 at his first cap. Fogarty Sn at 32 (and had been in the form of his life over the previous year or two). He's about halfway though his career in terms of games played (potentially). International ambitions do seem to have passed him by.

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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by [Jackass] »

RE Cronin and his "attitude towards Leinster", I can guarentee you if given the choice of staying put or moving to Munster he wouldn't budge, for a number of reasons...
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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by munster#1 »

kendalgerty wrote:
munster#1 wrote: Imo he had already passed varley out, he was playing much better than varley and was getting starts during the rwc. Many munster fans were saying that sherry should have been called up instead of varley.
Which, again, is totally fanciful! This smacks of ridiculous overhype of a talented but utterly unproven player.
Please explain your opinion? At the start of the season sherry was out playing varley and was getting the game time as a reward. Did you watch many munster games prior to sherry's injury?

Imo and a fair few others, varley got the call up as he knew the calls and had more experience.

This is a completely unbias opinion as both are current munster players, you are entitled to your opinion, but i disagree with you

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ronk
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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by ronk »

munster#1 wrote:
ronk wrote:Jason Harris-Wright. 23, (slightly) younger than Sherry, didn't want to be 3rd choice so he went off to Bristol.

Got two less starts than Sherry last season, one less sub appearance. Considering he was on the way out and we didn't have hookers on international duty, he wasn't far off.

It is so, so easy to hype.
Not sure where you are going with this? Are you trying to claim that games playes are a direct measurement of a players ability?
I know you look at things differently to most, but surely the fact that sherry got called up to the rwc camp would be a better comparrison?
Comparison of what? Sherry was called up to be 3rd choice hooker in case Best wasn't fit for a game he ended up playing the full 80 minutes of. It was just a way of making the Welsh think that Best was definitely out.

Who else were Ireland going to send out?

I'm not trying to hype JHW (though I think he has enough potential that he's worth keeping an eye on) but I was drawing attention to the similarity of their records as a way to hopefully moderate some of the excessive hyping going on around Sherry. He's a talented player and I'm sure he'll get a chance when he returns because he is highly rated. He even has time to make the 6N squad, but that's more due to the standard required to claim that jersey at the moment. In terms of size and athleticism, Sherry strikes me as the kind of guy who'll take a few years to mature and really hit form. More dynamic hookers like Cronin and Strauss can make an impact younger.

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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by fourthirtythree »

[Jackass] wrote:RE Cronin and his "attitude towards Leinster", I can guarentee you if given the choice of staying put or moving to Munster he wouldn't budge, for a number of reasons...
I couldn't guarantee that, I'm sure he has some sentiment. But for the reasons mentioned above (and I was sceptical of his move more because I thought it was unfair to Connacht than anything) I do think he is in exactly the right place for him right now. He didn't automatically get his game, we had probably the form hooker playing in Ireland last year, but he looks better and better every game.
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Re: Munster Thread 2011-2012

Post by kendalgerty »

munster#1 wrote:
kendalgerty wrote:
munster#1 wrote: Imo he had already passed varley out, he was playing much better than varley and was getting starts during the rwc. Many munster fans were saying that sherry should have been called up instead of varley.
Which, again, is totally fanciful! This smacks of ridiculous overhype of a talented but utterly unproven player.
Please explain your opinion? At the start of the season sherry was out playing varley and was getting the game time as a reward. Did you watch many munster games prior to sherry's injury?

Imo and a fair few others, varley got the call up as he knew the calls and had more experience.

This is a completely unbias opinion as both are current munster players, you are entitled to your opinion, but i disagree with you
Sherry started one match (one match!) ahead of Varley this season, the game against Newport Dragons on 3 Sep. The following game, Varley started ahead of Sherry, and then Varley was called up to the World Cup squad. After that, of course Sherry was picked with Fogs on the banch. Reign yourself in a bit there.
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