Munster Thread 2011-2012

[hugonaut]

Paulie looked out of his depth strangely.

He is absolutely and positively not 'out of his depth' in the Pro 12.

And that's I used the words "looked like" and "strangely".

I just think it's a really bizarre choice of phrase, GFO. Being out of your depth isn't something that afflicts you for half an hour in the middle of the season!

[ruck]

Don't know if you saw the Saints game. They were simply excellent. One of the best performances in the HEC thus far.

Wouldn't agree with that at all. They were good, but not great. Northampton were absolute rubbish, they were both phsyically and mentally exhausted from the week before against Munster. Three of the Scarlets' trys were absolutely gifted to them.

Edit: We're still f%~ked mind.

Missing Earls, Wallace, Flannery, Sherry, Howlett, Jones and possibly Mafi.
No team can manage such huge losses without struggling.

[munster#1]

things look bad when you look at the quality that is missing. I really hope foley stands up and calls a spade a spade and says, lets face it, our back line is shot, we have a better pack so lets go back to basics. Imo if we play 10 man rugby we can win this one, our scrum is going well, and our maul is something to be proud of. If we try to take them in the backs, we will be hammered back all day.

My team would be, tight 5 as usual, back row of leamy, pom and coughlan. Backs, murray, rog, barnes, keatley, chambers, murphy and hurley.
I know we are probably more likely to see murphy, barnes, chambers, zebo and hurley. I just think a 10/12 combo of rog and keatley would offer more to a 10 man game

[hugonaut]

things look bad when you look at the quality that is missing. I really hope foley stands up and calls a spade a spade and says, lets face it, our back line is shot, we have a better pack so lets go back to basics. Imo if we play 10 man rugby we can win this one, our scrum is going well, and our maul is something to be proud of. If we try to take them in the backs, we will be hammered back all day.

My team would be, tight 5 as usual, back row of leamy, pom and coughlan. Backs, murray, rog, barnes, keatley, chambers, murphy and hurley.
I know we are probably more likely to see murphy, barnes, chambers, zebo and hurley. I just think a 10/12 combo of rog and keatley would offer more to a 10 man game

ROG doesn't take the ball into contact much and there's not a significant threat out wide, so why play Keatley at 12? The chief benefit to a second playmaker at 12 is that if you've got an out half who is a breaking threat [like Giteau, Carter, or as seen on Saturday, James O'Connor] he can break and get sucked into the bottom of a ruck and you'll still have an 'outhalf' at first receiver – i.e. Mauger/McAlister for the Kiwis [05-07] or Berrick Barnes for the Aussies – to direct operations.

The other two major factors are a left foot/right foot kicking game and as a distributor for quality outside backs. With Howlett, Earls and Jones all missing, there's no real threat out wide. I just don't think that this match is a good fit for Keatley at 12.

[hugonaut]

Don't know if you saw the Saints game. They were simply excellent. One of the best performances in the HEC thus far.

Wouldn't agree with that at all. They were good, but not great. Northampton were absolute rubbish, they were both phsyically and mentally exhausted from the week before against Munster. Three of the Scarlets' trys were absolutely gifted to them.

Edit: We're still f%~ked mind.

Missing Earls, Wallace, Flannery, Sherry, Howlett, Jones and possibly Mafi.
No team can manage such huge losses without struggling.

That's a very serious injury list alright. What's the story with Mafi?

[ruck]

Don't know if you saw the Saints game. They were simply excellent. One of the best performances in the HEC thus far.

Wouldn't agree with that at all. They were good, but not great. Northampton were absolute rubbish, they were both phsyically and mentally exhausted from the week before against Munster. Three of the Scarlets' trys were absolutely gifted to them.

Edit: We're still f%~ked mind.

Missing Earls, Wallace, Flannery, Sherry, Howlett, Jones and possibly Mafi.
No team can manage such huge losses without struggling.

That's a very serious injury list alright. What's the story with Mafi?

I've no idea. I only started hearing over the weekend that he was a doubt, but nobody seemed to know why. I hope it's just more pub bullshit.

[ceemec]

Don't know if you saw the Saints game. They were simply excellent. One of the best performances in the HEC thus far. Agree that our best approach is to keep it to a 10 man game, but McGahan seems to love playing a sub RL style of rugby, which is killing us.

Think you're being very, very complimentary to the Scarlets. With the possible exception of Ben Morgan and Matthew Rees, Munster are significantly better in every position in the pack and that's where games are won. Against Northampton, every single point the scored was lucky. First try was a hack on from a dropped ball, second an offside knock on found the Saints asleep, third was a dropped catch by Pisi, fourth was a knock on from Ashton. They were unable to exert any real pressure aside from that and are relatively toothless up front. They won 4 penalties in the entire game compared to 17 by the Saints. Priestland wasn't afforded one chance to kick at goal in the entire game from a penalty. That says a lot about how little impact their pack had. Their set piece is also pretty awful. 5 throws and 2 scrums lost against Northampton. 3 throws and 3 scrums lost against Castres. They're there for the taking as long as Munster don't play a stupid game and try throwing it about. Keep it very tight, win penalties, kick them, win the game. It's not going to be pretty but it's the way to beat them.

[Apocrypha]

Don't know if you saw the Saints game. They were simply excellent. One of the best performances in the HEC thus far. Agree that our best approach is to keep it to a 10 man game, but McGahan seems to love playing a sub RL style of rugby, which is killing us.

Think you're being very, very complimentary to the Scarlets. With the possible exception of Ben Morgan and Matthew Rees, Munster are significantly better in every position in the pack and that's where games are won. Against Northampton, every single point the scored was lucky. First try was a hack on from a dropped ball, second an offside knock on found the Saints asleep, third was a dropped catch by Pisi, fourth was a knock on from Ashton. They were unable to exert any real pressure aside from that and are relatively toothless up front. They won 4 penalties in the entire game compared to 17 by the Saints. Priestland wasn't afforded one chance to kick at goal in the entire game from a penalty. That says a lot about how little impact their pack had. Their set piece is also pretty awful. 5 throws and 2 scrums lost against Northampton. 3 throws and 3 scrums lost against Castres. They're there for the taking as long as Munster don't play a stupid game and try throwing it about. Keep it very tight, win penalties, kick them, win the game. It's not going to be pretty but it's the way to beat them.

I'd certainly agree with you that on paper we have far better forwards - though that didn't help us against the O's on Saturday.

While I also agree with your summation of those tries, what you didn't mention was the fantastic counter-rucking of the Scarlets backrow, which led to each of those specific opportunities being created. The Saints were certainly lackadaisical, but the pressure exerted by Scarlets was nevertheless very impressive. Like Embra, I think their entire focus this season is on the HEC.

[ronk]

All of this is worrying though. Scarlett's are a team who can rack up points fast off mistakes. You can dominate them in a few areas but still lose.

Munster are a team who do make mistakes at the moment. Munster can and should win, but it's still a big ask.

[ribs]

I have a feeling that all the backline moves etc. were being saved up for next weekend. Whether it is possible to just switch on and execute the moves properly considering the injuries is another matter, but it should be a more exciting game than last weekend.

[Oldschool]

Munster's biggest problem right now is the number of unforced errors they are making.
Their next biggest problem is the indiscipline of certain players.
In summary Munster need to play to their strengths, recognize their limitations and you'll be fine.
DOC, Leamy and TOL are their main limitations. They didn't steady the ship when they came on - something they erroneously lauded for the previous week.
A team winning it's first two games in the HEC usually gets to the QF. Your next two matches are about an home or an away draw. We are talking about Scarlets for christ sakes.
Dumping Stringer and keeping TOL was another unforced error BTW.

[johng]

I have a feeling that all the backline moves etc. were being saved up for next weekend. Whether it is possible to just switch on and execute the moves properly considering the injuries is another matter, but it should be a more exciting game than last weekend.

Munster's best backline moves may be to not pass further than Rog. Certainly v the Scarlets.

[ruck]

I have a feeling that all the backline moves etc. were being saved up for next weekend. Whether it is possible to just switch on and execute the moves properly considering the injuries is another matter, but it should be a more exciting game than last weekend.

Munster's best backline moves may be to not pass further than Rog. Certainly v the Scarlets.

We're in serious trouble now that we can't use our most potent back move. That being "give the ball to Dougie"

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I've always been a big fan of DOC but have to say I think he's been awful recently. Seems to think he'll win his place back by suddenly becoming a ball carrier and by getting his hands on the ball more but that just takes away from his strengths and results in him being driven backwards most of the time.

[hugonaut]

I've always been a big fan of DOC but have to say I think he's been awful recently. Seems to think he'll win his place back by suddenly becoming a ball carrier and by getting his hands on the ball more but that just takes away from his strengths and results in him being driven backwards most of the time.

He has been poor since returning from the World Cup. He plays better for Ireland than for Munster, in my opinion [never thought I'd hear myself saying that!]

[LeRouxIsPHat]

On the brightside, Donncha Ryan is impressing me more and more. If you were to look at the problem areas from the world cup in terms of where we need to experiment with players (second row, centre and a natural openside), we're actually some way to addressing those issues. It might be more by accident than design but it's promising nonetheless. I'm not saying that we have ready made international class players to come in but there's definite progress from where we were a couple of months ago.

[fourthirtythree]

On the brightside, Donncha Ryan is impressing me more and more. If you were to look at the problem areas from the world cup in terms of where we need to experiment with players (second row, centre and a natural openside), we're actually some way to addressing those issues. It might be more by accident than design but it's promising nonetheless. I'm not saying that we have ready made international class players to come in but there's definite progress from where we were a couple of months ago.

He has continued his world cup form. Great to see a guy like that offloading.

[Apocrypha]

Dougie out for the season. 6-8 months.

Sad, sad news.



Our injury list is now:

Dougie - Season
Wally - March
Earls - Jan
Fla - Who knows
Felix - Meant to be Jan but could be longer
Sherry - Meant to be Dec but has been longer
Borlase - Meant to be Nov but has been longer
Hurley - Who knows

We may be on our knees, but will die fighting so.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Disaster, poor fella. Wish him all the best in his recovery and hope that's not the last we see of him.

The stage is set for Zebo to become a star...

[tackle-bag]

Munster are definitely going to need to make an emergency addition to their back division in view of that litany of injuries. I wonder whether a Southern Hemisphere player like Adam Ashley-Cooper, Richard Kahui or Isaia Toeava be willing to come on a 2/3 month deal until the Super 15 returns.