Munster Thread 2010/2011

[aisling7]

Pre Season games announced for Munster:

Munster will play two pre season friendlies in Musgrave Park this August. First up it's the Leicester Tigers on Friday the 20th August, while Gloucester provide the opposition the following Friday. Both games kick off at 7pm.
Pre Season Fixtures

Fixture Venue Date Time
Munster v Leicester Tigers Musgrave Park Fri 20th Ausust 2010 Kick off 7pm
Munster v Gloucester Rugby Musgrave Park Fri 27th August 2010 Kick off 7pm


Ticket Prices

West Stand - €25

Uncovered Seating - €20

Adult Terrace - €15

Junior Terrace(Under 16's) - €5

Family Pack Terrace( 2 Adult & 2 Junior) - €35

To buy tickets now click here or Phone the Ticketmaster hotline on 0818 719 300.

Tickets are also available from the Munster Rugby Ticket Offices at Thomond Park Stadium, Limerick and Tramore Road, Cork.

Double Ticket Discount

Buy a ticket to both Pre Season games and get a 20% discount on the full ticket price. To avail of this offer click here.

[Bosco]

Pricey for a preseason game!!!

[aisling7]

It's not too bad if you were to buy a terrace ticket for each game and get the 20% discount available.

[Bosco]

but then you would have to go to Cork 2 weeks in a row

( actually I think anyone that has a season ticket to both TP and MP gets a free ticket to one of the games)

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Another signing at prop.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2010/0610/munster.html

Presume he's a project player? Wonder where this will leave Buckley?

[hugonaut]

Time will tell, LeRouxIs Phat.

It's unfortunate that the profiles on the Munster website don't list the amount of minutes the players played per game, as the Leinster one does. Mushy played in 21 matches this season, which would seem a pretty good return – however, he only started 10 of them [2 in the HEC and 8 in the ML] and it's unclear in how many matches he lasted the full 80 mins.

The Irish strength and conditioning team have said before that Hayes gets fit with match time, and they limit the amount of work he does in training. Partly this is due to his age [obviously] but partly also to his size. I'd imagine that this would hold true for Buckley, in that he needs gametime, gametime, gametime.

It's fair to say that this season has seen Hayes' form fall off a cliff [no offense to the great man, but it's quite apparent] and if there was ever a chance for both Mushy to step up and McGahan to make a brave decision, the clock has been ticking for 6+ months.

As I have said before, I'm a Mushy fan, but I'm under no illusions that he'll ever be a great international prop. Hopefully though, he can become an adequate 50 minute international prop ... ditto Mike Ross. It's painfully obvious that Ireland have not succeeded in finding a challenger/usurper for Hayes' tighthead berth since the last world cup; the main reason is simply that no player sufficiently talented has emerged, although blame must also fall somewhat on both Leinster and Ulster, who have steadily imported tightheads.

However, I think it's naive in the extreme to suggest that Hayes' decline in form is a mere 'blip': it's terminal. My stop-gap solution for the next 18 months at international level would be to use a mix of Court, Buckley and Ross at TH [maybe even Hayes, if he has anything left], with the replacement always getting half an hour minimum in the second half of the game. We don't have a 'starting tighthead' anymore, in form terms. We have a tighthead who starts. And then gets replaced. If I was Kidney, that's how I'd play every single international from now until November 2011.

You could start with Court for 45-50 minutes, then bring on Buckley, or start with Ross etc. In this way, you make sure that you get maximum effort out of two mammoth men, as scrummaging is immensely fatiguing and the most calamitous scrums happen when players are tired and not concentrating.

All this has been said a dozen [if not a hundred] times before, however. From my point of view, the most important thing is to cut the umbilical cord to Hayes. He has done more than enough for Irish rugby and frankly, if at this stage of his career Hayes for 70 minutes is the best we can do at tighthead at international level, our scrum is f*cked.

[ellandleinster]

our scrum is f*cked as is witnessed by Hayes playing NZ on saturday.

[ceemec]

Buckley got 80mins on three occasions this season, Hugo. I would think his starts would almost be halved as well if it were not for Hayes' moment of madness in the RDS.

The signing is an odd one. The rationale behind it is that he'll be required as Buckley and Hayes will both be on international duty and will be gone due to the enforced unavailability for centrally contracted players. In reality, unless there's a significant change from other years, one of Hayes or Buckley should be almost always available. Last season, after a Lions tour, we saw Hayes return to action ahead of time and he only missed Munster's first two games of the season. Buckley was available from the very start. We've seen that in the international windows the subs are made available for games so we can assume for the couple of ML games that take place in and around the autumn internationals or 6N, at least one of Buckley or Hayes will be available. He seems to be just a straight replacement for Brugnaut but will probably see even less game time. I can't see him starting more than 3 or 4 games this season unless DK decides to completely wrap the two lads in cotton wool which would see them drop match fitness hugely. Brugnaut got as much game time at loose head last season but with Horan about again and WdP signed he won't be getting a sniff there.

Would think they'd have been better off signing a utility forward to cover the old heads in the back row now that Williams is gone or even a project outhalf considering ROG's age although we've seen that go badly last time they tried it.

[Munsterboy]

Buckley got 80mins on three occasions this season, Hugo. I would think his starts would almost be halved as well if it were not for Hayes' moment of madness in the RDS.

The signing is an odd one. The rationale behind it is that he'll be required as Buckley and Hayes will both be on international duty and will be gone due to the enforced unavailability for centrally contracted players. In reality, unless there's a significant change from other years, one of Hayes or Buckley should be almost always available. Last season, after a Lions tour, we saw Hayes return to action ahead of time and he only missed Munster's first two games of the season. Buckley was available from the very start. We've seen that in the international windows the subs are made available for games so we can assume for the couple of ML games that take place in and around the autumn internationals or 6N, at least one of Buckley or Hayes will be available. He seems to be just a straight replacement for Brugnaut but will probably see even less game time. I can't see him starting more than 3 or 4 games this season unless DK decides to completely wrap the two lads in cotton wool which would see them drop match fitness hugely. Brugnaut got as much game time at loose head last season but with Horan about again and WdP signed he won't be getting a sniff there.

Would think they'd have been better off signing a utility forward to cover the old heads in the back row now that Williams is gone or even a project outhalf considering ROG's age although we've seen that go badly last time they tried it.

Your argument is based on the assumption that neither Hayes not Buckley will get injured. It also overlooks the fact that they'll be mising for a long period next season - the RWC. Throw in the fact that Hayes will probably retire after the RWC and it seems a sensible signing.

I'm more surprised that we signed Du Preez because we have three LHs capable of playing HEC (Horan, Ryan and Hurley) and only one for them is likely to be called for international duty.

[hugonaut]

Your argument is based on the assumption that neither Hayes not Buckley will get injured. It also overlooks the fact that they'll be mising for a long period next season - the RWC. Throw in the fact that Hayes will probably retire after the RWC and it seems a sensible signing.

I'm more surprised that we signed Du Preez because we have three LHs capable of playing HEC (Horan, Ryan and Hurley) and only one for them is likely to be called for international duty.

I don't think it's a bad signing, Munsterboy. Having seen the damage that Toulouse, Biarritz and Clermont [and to a lesser extent Perpignan] have done to the Leinster and Munster scrums in the last season, and having seen the size of the front row contingent in their respective squads, I'm firmly of the belief that you can't have enough props in your extended squad.

Also, as Borlase is a 'neutral', i.e. not Irish qualified [the ideal solution] but not Not-Irish-Qualified [if you follow me!], it seems very likely that he could be regarded as a project player, i.e. a potential Irish international if he's good enough in two/three year's time. By that I mean that while the qualification period is three years, we'll know at the end of two years if he is a viable option and the IRFU will then put the incentives in place for him to stay.

Furthermore, as I've stated above, I'm of the belief that we've missed the boat in finding an adequate replacement for Hayes in terms of RWC11. In my opinion, we're going to have to make do with a stop-gap option for that tournament. There is definitely going to be a search for a new starting tighthead after that comp though, and hopefully Borlase can challenge for the spot.

I also think that du Preez becomes the No1 loosehead in Munster now that he has signed - again, just my opinion.

[ceemec]

Your argument is based on the assumption that neither Hayes not Buckley will get injured. It also overlooks the fact that they'll be mising for a long period next season - the RWC. Throw in the fact that Hayes will probably retire after the RWC and it seems a sensible signing.

I'm more surprised that we signed Du Preez because we have three LHs capable of playing HEC (Horan, Ryan and Hurley) and only one for them is likely to be called for international duty.

RWC is 2011/12 though unless DK plans on removing his players 5 months in advance and the injury thing would simply be a case of signing a joker like last season on a short term which I'd have no problem with. If you've two first choice tightheads out injured then you're going to struggle even if someone like Archer already has a ML start under his belt. I don't think the PAG would have any issue allowing a short term signing if that scenario came to pass.

I agree, WdP surprised me far more given you've several loosehead props who are at ML standard. I suppose it was just a case of trying to bolster the scrum which is necessary if Munster are to be a force in the HEC next season.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

The more I think about this signing the more I don't like it. I'd imagine that it means that there will definitely be 23 man squads for the ML but even then I'd have thought that with WDP on board Munster had enough props to cover that. I really like the look of both Ryan (who I assume will now only play loosehead) and Archer and really don't think it's fair for them to be pushed further down the pecking order. I'm beginning to think that someone might be leaving this Summer.

[West Brit]

Another signing at prop.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2010/0610/munster.html

Presume he's a project player? Wonder where this will leave Buckley?

Is a 25 year-old that's only managed two games in Super 14 really going to be the missing piece of the HC jigsaw for Munster? It's an underwhelming signing to say the least. In saying that, so was Stan, so I won't write this bloke off just yet.

How many more NIQ places are available for Munster to fill now?

[tackle-bag]

The name certainly doesn't give it away but is there any chance that Borlase is Irish-qualified already? I'm sure it would have been mentioned in the press release if he was, but then again it wasn't when we signed Strauss.

I agree that he's probably a little bit short of Super 14 experience but I've seen him play in the NPC once or twice and was impressed. He's a pretty dynamic ball-carrier for such a big guy, can't recall much about his scrummaging though.

[Donny B.]

Another signing at prop.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2010/0610/munster.html

Presume he's a project player? Wonder where this will leave Buckley?

Is a 25 year-old that's only managed two games in Super 14 really going to be the missing piece of the HC jigsaw for Munster? It's an underwhelming signing to say the least. In saying that, so was Stan, so I won't write this bloke off just yet.

How many more NIQ places are available for Munster to fill now?

As many as they want. They've six on their books now (Warwick, Tuitupou, Howlett, Mafi, Du Preez and Borlase) but the PAG normally allow them a couple more.

[Comer Toes]

Am I the only one who thinks that the PAG should have placed a blanket ban on the importation of any NIQ props a couple of years ago when it was clear the national team had a crisis in this area?

We have to develop our home-grown guys by giving them the game-time, and letting them learn the hard way. Advance apologies to all props here, but there isn't a huge amount of raw talent required to get contenders up to scratch is there? Feed the cr@p out of them, get them squatting like demons and get them top notch scrummaging coaching.

Buckley, Healy, Hagan, Court, Fitzpatrick, T Ryan, D Ryan, Hurley, Archer, Maguire, O'Connell, Wilkinson, Young... they're all capable they're just not being hardened and exposed to consistent top notch matches in the ML/ HEC (healy excluded and naturally the younger lads).

I think this signing is a joke, as I do with any Leinster, Ulster imports in this position. We can bring through world class back rows and back-line players but we'll never see their full potential on the international scene if our front five are being bitch-slapped around for the foreseeable future.

[Xanthippe]

It's unfortunate that the profiles on the Munster website don't list the amount of minutes the players played per game, as the Leinster one does. Mushy played in 21 matches this season, which would seem a pretty good return – however, he only started 10 of them [2 in the HEC and 8 in the ML] and it's unclear in how many matches he lasted the full 80 mins.

I have Mushy's stats for the year but as I can't paste a table it would be very difficult to read them. If you're interested I have attached a pdf at the following link: Tony Buckley’s Stats 2009/2010.

Buckley, Healy, Hagan, Court, Fitzpatrick, T Ryan, D Ryan, Hurley, Archer, Maguire, O'Connell, Wilkinson, Young... they're all capable they're just not being hardened and exposed to consistent top notch matches in the ML/ HEC

No mention of Ross - would this be an example of a Freudian slip?

[Donny B.]

We have to develop our home-grown guys by giving them the game-time, and letting them learn the hard way. Advance apologies to all props here, but there isn't a huge amount of raw talent required to get contenders up to scratch is there? Feed the cr@p out of them, get them squatting like demons and get them top notch scrummaging coaching.

If only that was all there is to it.

[Isaac4leinster]

Buckley, Healy, Hagan, Court, Fitzpatrick, T Ryan, D Ryan, Hurley, Archer, Maguire, O'Connell, Wilkinson, Young... they're all capable they're just not being hardened and exposed to consistent top notch matches in the ML/ HEC (healy excluded and naturally the younger lads).

Is Tim Ryan not at Toulon? Or is that a different T Ryan you're talking about?

[munster#1]

i really think this is a joke, munster should not have been allowed sign yet another prop, this brings their signed props to 2 which is 1 behind leinster, both munster and leinster should have been given serious guidelines, to bring players through the youths.
next season leinsters 23 man squad will consist of 2 props, 2 hookers, 2 second rows, 2 S/Hs, 1 O/H and a winger all none leinster players. this is a team that has told all who will listen that they have a great academy, munster will have 2 props, 2 centres, 3 back 3 players all none munster players, even though munster do not claim to have a great academy, they should do better than that