Sports events 'must be on free TV'

[backrower8]

Some reflections on the Mnister's Points to date:

Kids must be able to see their heroes: Agreed but kids do see their heroes on Sky when they go to their local rugby club, or a friend's house or the local 'no smoking and nice food with moderated drinking' pub or even on their own TV where Sky is already installed for the Premiership or even on RE deferred highlights (THERE IS NO LACK OF ACCESS). But not just on TV Minister. They should also be able to watch their heroes play in the flesh, meet them in schools, on the street, be trained by them, be living among them in their community. This leads to the next point....

Social Policy: See point above - heroes living in Ireland are more of a social plus than heroes abroad. Social element of clubs and communities getting together to play TAG and/or mini-rugby and then watch the match together has a big social effect. I know of one couple in their 80s for whom going to their local club in Clonmel for a Heineken match is a big and important social outing. Finally, social policy must meet the already established sporting policy that the Aviva Stadium is part of. That stadium is a shop window that will inspire participation in sport (health dividend to the nation) and will attract sports tourism and revenue into the country.

Viewership Collapses with PayTV: The figures touted totally ignore the tens of thousands who go to clubs and pubs to watch the matches - do they not count? And anyway - it is a balance not exclusive PayTV that is being sought. Remember Six Nations have stated that their preference is free-to-air and Magner's league will be on RTE next year along with the 6 Nations.

€191 million taxpayers money: Well as someone already said here, the rugby public are also taxpayers! The €191 million was for 2 sports. About €30 million of it flowed back to the Government in taxes and local expenditure. Also, it was not a handout but an indirect investment in the health and finances of our couuntry as it will drive participation in sports and bring money into Irleand from Sports tourism that will repay the Government faster than it took to build the stadium.

Finally a question. What about Ulster Minister? The IRFU's revenues are also used to fund the Ulster team. Irish rugby has remained an island of Ireland sport through thick and thin. Now we may have the spectre of the Ulster team's matches free-to-air in the republic but on payTV in the North.

[Dexter]

Some reflections on the Mnister's Points to date:

Kids must be able to see their heroes: Agreed but kids do see their heroes on Sky when they go to their local rugby club, or a friend's house or the local 'no smoking and nice food with moderated drinking' pub or even on their own TV where Sky is already installed for the Premiership or even on RE deferred highlights (THERE IS NO LACK OF ACCESS). But not just on TV Minister. They should also be able to watch their heroes play in the flesh, meet them in schools, on the street, be trained by them, be living among them in their community. This leads to the next point....

Social Policy: See point above - heroes living in Ireland are more of a social plus than heroes abroad. Social element of clubs and communities getting together to play TAG and/or mini-rugby and then watch the match together has a big social effect. I know of one couple in their 80s for whom going to their local club in Clonmel for a Heineken match is a big and important social outing. Finally, social policy must meet the already established sporting policy that the Aviva Stadium is part of. That stadium is a shop window that will inspire participation in sport (health dividend to the nation) and will attract sports tourism and revenue into the country.

Viewership Collapses with PayTV: The figures touted totally ignore the tens of thousands who go to clubs and pubs to watch the matches - do they not count? And anyway - it is a balance not exclusive PayTV that is being sought. Remember Six Nations have stated that their preference is free-to-air and Magner's league will be on RTE next year along with the 6 Nations.

€191 million taxpayers money: Well as someone already said here, the rugby public are also taxpayers! The €191 million was for 2 sports. About €30 million of it flowed back to the Government in taxes and local expenditure. Also, it was not a handout but an indirect investment in the health and finances of our couuntry as it will drive participation in sports and bring money into Irleand from Sports tourism that will repay the Government faster than it took to build the stadium.

Finally a question. What about Ulster Minister? The IRFU's revenues are also used to fund the Ulster team. Irish rugby has remained an island of Ireland sport through thick and thin. Now we may have the spectre of the Ulster team's matches free-to-air in the republic but on payTV in the North.

Spot on, IMO. I think the important thing now is that the IRFU give Ryan some room to save face with a low-profile backdown from a badly thought-out proposal which has pretty much backfired on him.

[backrower8]

Some reflections on the Mnister's Points to date:

Kids must be able to see their heroes: Agreed but kids do see their heroes on Sky when they go to their local rugby club, or a friend's house or the local 'no smoking and nice food with moderated drinking' pub or even on their own TV where Sky is already installed for the Premiership or even on RE deferred highlights (THERE IS NO LACK OF ACCESS). But not just on TV Minister. They should also be able to watch their heroes play in the flesh, meet them in schools, on the street, be trained by them, be living among them in their community. This leads to the next point....

Social Policy: See point above - heroes living in Ireland are more of a social plus than heroes abroad. Social element of clubs and communities getting together to play TAG and/or mini-rugby and then watch the match together has a big social effect. I know of one couple in their 80s for whom going to their local club in Clonmel for a Heineken match is a big and important social outing. Finally, social policy must meet the already established sporting policy that the Aviva Stadium is part of. That stadium is a shop window that will inspire participation in sport (health dividend to the nation) and will attract sports tourism and revenue into the country.

Viewership Collapses with PayTV: The figures touted totally ignore the tens of thousands who go to clubs and pubs to watch the matches - do they not count? And anyway - it is a balance not exclusive PayTV that is being sought. Remember Six Nations have stated that their preference is free-to-air and Magner's league will be on RTE next year along with the 6 Nations.

€191 million taxpayers money: Well as someone already said here, the rugby public are also taxpayers! The €191 million was for 2 sports. About €30 million of it flowed back to the Government in taxes and local expenditure. Also, it was not a handout but an indirect investment in the health and finances of our couuntry as it will drive participation in sports and bring money into Irleand from Sports tourism that will repay the Government faster than it took to build the stadium.

Finally a question. What about Ulster Minister? The IRFU's revenues are also used to fund the Ulster team. Irish rugby has remained an island of Ireland sport through thick and thin. Now we may have the spectre of the Ulster team's matches free-to-air in the republic but on payTV in the North.

Spot on, IMO. I think the important thing now is that the IRFU give Ryan some room to save face with a low-profile backdown from a badly thought-out proposal which has pretty much backfired on him.

Agreed re room for climbdown however those who know him say that is not his style and anyway he has invested a lot of political capital in this and kept going to the media with woolly arguments even after he met rugby chiefs and after the storm broke - so I don't think he will back down - he will look for some form of victory

[ronk]

Agreed re room for climbdown however those who know him say that is not his style and anyway he has invested a lot of political capital in this and kept going to the media with woolly arguments even after he met rugby chiefs and after the storm broke - so I don't think he will back down - he will look for some form of victory

It's entirely possible to back down and walk away with a face saving victory. It's not complicated, any politician who couldn't salvage something from this doesn't belong in politics. Basic, basic Yes, Minister stuff.

[Dexter]

Spot on, IMO. I think the important thing now is that the IRFU give Ryan some room to save face with a low-profile backdown from a badly thought-out proposal which has pretty much backfired on him.

Agreed re room for climbdown however those who know him say that is not his style and anyway he has invested a lot of political capital in this and kept going to the media with woolly arguments even after he met rugby chiefs and after the storm broke - so I don't think he will back down - he will look for some form of victory

Really? Not good so. It was always a danger that he was backing himself into a corner, and the more he did it, the less likely a climbdown.

[Dexter]

Agreed re room for climbdown however those who know him say that is not his style and anyway he has invested a lot of political capital in this and kept going to the media with woolly arguments even after he met rugby chiefs and after the storm broke - so I don't think he will back down - he will look for some form of victory

It's entirely possible to back down and walk away with a face saving victory. It's not complicated, any politician who couldn't salvage something from this doesn't belong in politics. Basic, basic Yes, Minister stuff.

I think you've nailed it right there, ronk.

[Hickiefan]

Has everyone who has an opinion on this emailed a submission? I'd urge you to do so - will only take a few mins.

Emails can be sent to: broadcast@irishrugby.ie

[Leinsterman]

Has everyone who has an opinion on this emailed a submission? I'd urge you to do so - will only take a few mins.

Emails can be sent to: broadcast@irishrugby.ie

Alternatively, people could also write to their local TDs.
I'm currently drafting a letter that will be sent to the TDs in my club's constituency.

[Leinsterman]

It's not complicated, any politician who couldn't salvage something from this doesn't belong in politics. Basic, basic Yes, Minister stuff.

The Greens don't belong in politics anyway. That's the whole problem.

[janeymac08]

IRFU/Browne made themselves look like twits here. Stringer signs a new contract on half the money, despite offers from France/England. The IRFU campaign isn't looking too good now, is it?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/a ... 140301.ece

French and British rugby clubs could 'go it alone' in a slimmed-down Heineken Cup
Stephen O’Brien, Political Correspondent

THE Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU) has warned that French and British rugby clubs could “go it alone” in a slimmed-down Heineken Cup if the sport in Ireland loses television revenue.

Philip Browne, the IRFU chief executive, has warned the government that Irish rugby could lose €8m-€10m if Eamon Ryan, the communications minister, decides that the Six Nations series and Munster’s and Leinster’s games in the Heineken Cup should be broadcast on free-to-air channels such as RTE.

But his figures have been challenged by Roddy Flynn, a communications lecturer at Dublin City University, who says there has been “a key error” in the calculations. “The basis upon which the IRFU arrived at this figure is not just flawed, it’s plain wrong,” he said.

“They claim that Irish rugby is ‘punching above its weight’ because the IRFU gets back €11m in Six Nations broadcasting revenue from an investment of just €3m paid by RTE for its broadcasting rights. But the amount of money RTE pays for the right to screen Six Nations games has no bearing on how much money the IRFU might be paid by other broadcasters if each rugby union negotiated television rights individually.

“All things being equal, an Ireland-France game played at Lansdowne Road should cost a French broadcaster roughly 12 times as much as RTE would pay, because they are broadcasting to a population of 60m, 12 times that of Ireland.”

But Browne said Flynn’s argument was a technical response that ignored the politics of European rugby and the volatile nature of the European Rugby Cup (ERC) and Six Nations organisations.

He said: “If we can’t bring an unencumbered market to the table at those two organisations, we put ourselves into potential political difficulty with our partners in those collectives.

“The UK and Irish market- place are almost inextricably linked. Organisations like ESPN, which is owned by Disney and Sky, effectively treat the British Isles, including Ireland, as a single market. What they would have a difficulty with is if the Irish market is locked out. That could create a situation where Sky or ESPN could decide they weren’t interested in the UK market at all. ”

Browne argues that this could prompt English and French teams in the Heineken Cup to go it alone. “They tried to take over the ERC before, when they pulled out of it in 1998-99,” he said. “The English went on their own earlier in the Six Nations. It is not as simplistic as Dr Flynn is suggesting.”

Flynn, who specialises in broadcasting policy, pointed out that England’s decision to go “solo” in selling rights to the then Five Nations matches in the late 1990s was met with opprobrium by the other nations, and they came back to the fold “with their tails between their legs” the following year.

[Dexter]

I dunno.. I think the DCU lecturer looks more of a twit.

[janeymac08]

I dunno.. I think the DCU lecturer looks more of a twit.

Why?

[Dexter]

I've been hearing that finances are very tight anyway, will drop hugely in the next 3 years or so and we should get used to seeing the top players go abroad. Even to the extent that Leinster, for example, will be a team pretty much full of academy graduates. This is outside of Ryan's FTA gibberish. Would go some to explaining why IRFU and the provinces have been so ferocious in their anti-FTA campaign, as they want squeeze funding from wherever possible.
It sounds like a bit of a doomsday scenario and I hope it's completely exaggerated, but the signals haven't exactly been too encouraging recently.
The rumour mill also has it that Canterbury won't pay Leinster 500k owed, new set-up won't honour the debt of the crowd that went bust, but also Leinster can't get out of the contract and get a new kit supplier. Further rumours suggest the sponsorship deal with BoI is actually pretty low in comparison to what they could get, or even what Ulster get. A lot of this seems a bit odd and I wonder how much truth is in there.
As I say, all rumour and hearsay, so could be completely untrue, I've no idea.

[olaf the fat]

I've been hearing that finances are very tight anyway, will drop hugely in the next 3 years or so and we should get used to seeing the top players go abroad. Even to the extent that Leinster, for example, will be a team pretty much full of academy graduates. This is outside of Ryan's FTA gibberish. Would go some to explaining why IRFU and the provinces have been so ferocious in their anti-FTA campaign, as they want squeeze funding from wherever possible.
It sounds like a bit of a doomsday scenario and I hope it's completely exaggerated, but the signals haven't exactly been too encouraging recently.
The rumour mill also has it that Canterbury won't pay Leinster 500k owed, new set-up won't honour the debt of the crowd that went bust, but also Leinster can't get out of the contract and get a new kit supplier. Further rumours suggest the sponsorship deal with BoI is actually pretty low in comparison to what they could get, or even what Ulster get. A lot of this seems a bit odd and I wonder how much truth is in there.
As I say, all rumour and hearsay, so could be completely untrue, I've no idea.

I would say they did not plan on the season tickets being pretty much the same price as they were 3 /4 years ago. There is not the same demand for international tickets as there was a few years ago - they take alot longer to sell out. The money sponsors / corporate gigs get is shag all compared to what it was a few seasons ago and this may only get leaner.



Enjoy competing in the top end of competitions as we are, there may be a rugby recession to rival the 80s on the way. If the doomsday scenario is true the SKY Telly money may not be enough to keep the wolf from the door anyway.

[Dave Cahill]

The rumour mill also has it that Canterbury won't pay Leinster 500k owed, new set-up won't honour the debt of the crowd that went bust, but also Leinster can't get out of the contract and get a new kit supplier. Further rumours suggest the sponsorship deal with BoI is actually pretty low in comparison to what they could get, or even what Ulster get. A lot of this seems a bit odd and I wonder how much truth is in there.

The two rumours you mentioned are entirely groundless.

[Dexter]

The rumour mill also has it that Canterbury won't pay Leinster 500k owed, new set-up won't honour the debt of the crowd that went bust, but also Leinster can't get out of the contract and get a new kit supplier. Further rumours suggest the sponsorship deal with BoI is actually pretty low in comparison to what they could get, or even what Ulster get. A lot of this seems a bit odd and I wonder how much truth is in there.

The two rumours you mentioned are entirely groundless.

Good to hear. Does "entirely groundless" also equate to "entirely untrue"? If so, even better.

[Scott]

THe Ministers responce to my email......


Many thanks for your email regarding the designation of certain rugby games for Free to Air television. Let me firstly set out the background to the current consultation process. Under the Broadcasting Act, the Minister for Communications is obliged to review the List of Designated Events every 3 years to determine what events should be broadcast on free-to-air TV. This law is derived from an EU Directive, which states that all Member States have the right to designate events of special national importance as free-to-air.I am obliged to analyse each of these events according to the test set down by the European Commission, namely that the event satisfy at least two of the following conditions:

o The event and its outcome has a special general resonance in the relevant Member State, not simply a significance for those who ordinarily follow the sport or activity concerned;o The event has a generally recognised, distinct cultural importance for the population in the Member State concerned, in particular as a catalyst of its cultural identity;o It involves the national team in the sport concerned in a major international tournament;o The event has traditionally been broadcast on free television and has commanded large television audiences in the Member State concerned. I began this process in May of last year and I recently published the list of events that I felt met at least two of these criteria. The list includes the Six Nations Championship and the European Rugby Cup (the Heineken Cup), as well as GAA Championship matches from provincial finals upwards and the Cheltenham Festival. As part of the process, this list is now list open for public consultation and I will be taking full account of the submissions I receive from the public. In addition, the findings of an independent consultant on the financial and other implications of listing events, will inform my ultimate decision.

The final list will be presented to the European Commission who will determine whether they qualify for designation. The driving impulse behind designating events Free to Air is to ensure that a substantial proportion of the population is not deprived of the opportunity to share in our country’s greatest sporting moments. The effect of restricting matches to Pay TV only is that audiences are typically cut by 80% or more. In particular, the very young, the elderly and poorer households can miss out on the games because they may not be able to pay for a subscription service. There has been some concern raised that a change in the broadcasting arrangements could ‘kill’ the professional game of rugby and I would like to reassure you that I am determined that this will not become the case. On the contrary I am part of a Government that has allocated significant amounts of tax payers money to rugby: €191m to the new Aviva Stadium; €9m to rebuild Thomond Park; €1.75m to refurbish the RDS: and €4m in annual Sports Council Grants.

We also have an innovative tax package for Irish sports people who play their sport in Ireland. This is unparalleled in any other rugby playing country and is a major contribution by the Irish public to keeping their stars at home. The IRFU have said that up to €12m could be lost by designating matches to Free to Air. I am sure they will make their case during the consultation process and I will listen carefully to what they have to say. However I understand that the vast bulk of broadcasting revenue (approximately €10m) already comes from the Free to Air broadcasting of our Six Nations games. This money is guaranteed for the next three years and similar revenues should be available in the years after that. In relation to the Heineken Cup, the designation of the event would not mean that Sky could no longer show the games but rather that RTE, TV3, and TG4 could also show them. Such a retransmission would have to be paid for at reasonable market rates, so Free to Air does not mean that the sport is provided for free. Many other Member States have also listed events in order to safeguard their citizens’ ability to watch important national events .

The UK Government is considering a similar change in their designation of the Welsh Six Nations rugby and the French Government already designates the Six Nations games and the Heineken Cup final when it involves a French team.

My job, as Minister for Broadcasting, is to consider a range of views in this debate, including issues relating to social, regional and broadcasting as well as sporting policy and I very much appreciate hearing your own views. If you wish you can submit your thoughts more formally via our consultation process which can be accessed through the Department website -http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Broadcasting/De ... ng+events/ I look forward to hearing back from you should you have any further thoughts or comments on the issue.

Yours sincerely, Eamon Ryan
Eamon Ryan TDMinister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources

[Dexter]

THe Ministers responce to my email......


The UK Government is considering a similar change in their designation of the Welsh Six Nations rugby and the French Government already designates the Six Nations games and the Heineken Cup final when it involves a French team.

Yours sincerely, Eamon Ryan
Eamon Ryan TDMinister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources

Population of UK = 61m (Wales 3m)
Population of France = 62m (mainland)
....
Population of Ireland = 4.4m

[olaf the fat]

THe Ministers responce to my email......


The UK Government is considering a similar change in their designation of the Welsh Six Nations rugby and the French Government already designates the Six Nations games and the Heineken Cup final when it involves a French team.

Yours sincerely, Eamon Ryan
Eamon Ryan TDMinister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources

Population of UK = 61m (Wales 3m)
Population of France = 62m (mainland)
....
Population of Ireland = 4.4m

Could also read
Population of UK that watch the Hcup = 1m(Wales 2m)
Population of France that watch the Hcup= 3m (mainland)
....
Population of Ireland that watch the Hcup= 2.0m

[sheepshagger]

Free-to-air Ryan rugby proposals challenged

FORMER MINISTER for sport John O’Donoghue has challenged Minister for Communications Eamon Ryan’s proposals to designate key international and provincial rugby matches as free-to-air for television.

Mr O’Donoghue told the Dáil last night that if the plans went ahead they would be potentially disastrous for Irish rugby. He said if both events were designated free-to air it would lead to “volatility and commercial tensions” with the other five rugby unions.

His contribution was the first major political intervention that Mr O’Donoghue has made since stepping down as ceann comhairle last autumn. It also put the former Fianna Fáil minister in direct conflict with a Green Party Minister.

Mr O’Donoghue indicated he accepted the Irish Rugby Football Union’s (IRFU) argument that it could lose €10 million to €12 million per annum.

Mr Ryan suggested that Mr O’Donoghue had accepted the argument of the IRFU too readily.

“I would ask Deputy O’Donoghue to be more questioning . . . I do not believe that the €12 million loss, or anything like it, would materialise,” he said.

Mr O’Donoghue began by saying he accepted Mr Ryan’s bona fides but then argued that the growth of the game in Ireland correlated with the amount of money invested in the game. “This means that there is a balance required between revenue and TV exposure. I am concerned that a move to free-to-air would swing the pendulum all the way,” he said.

He said if the Six Nations and Heineken Cup were free-to air, it would exclude Sky and ESPN from bidding. This would leave the IRFU “to the mercy of the State broadcasters in Ireland and in the UK . . . who have shown time and again that they will use a monopoly position to their commercial advantage and drive down revenue. Ireland’s failure to bring unencumbered television rights to the table would inevitably reverse the position,” he said, arguing that the arrangement between the six unions might fall apart if Ireland changes its status.

The Minister challenged those assertions. He argued neither Sky nor ESPN would be excluded from bidding. “How does the ‘collective selling’ argument stand up when we know that France has listed the Six Nations and the final of the Heineken Cup (if a French team is playing) as free-to-air? How does it stand up considering the UK government’s proposed list that includes designating Welsh Six Nations [games] as ‘free-to-air’ due to the special resonance of Welsh rugby?”

Mr Ryan has argued that transferring specific sports events to pay TV channels is socially divisive and leads to the undesirable situation whereby where children are brought to pubs to watch major sporting fixtures.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 75686.html