Munster - 2024/2025 - Sure it’ll be grand.

[the spoofer]

Guys, I've had enough of this shite.

If you want to discuss Munster and how they're doing this season; players they might sign, promote from the academy, etc. do it here.

If you want to discuss their historical (and possibly ongoing) difficulties in producing playing in position x/y/z, create a new thread about it.
If you want to discuss Leinster and their historical (and possibly ongoing) difficulties in producing playing in position x/y/z, create a new thread about it.
If you want to discuss the "Munster media" and the supposed victimhood culture of Munster rugby, create a thread about it, although in this case, it's likely that the thread will soon have mention of the involvement of both the reverse vampires and the saucer people.

Enough is enough
If you want to tell other poster to f%~k off, or similar sentiments, you're the one that will be taking a break from the forum.
If you want to tell people what they're allowed to discuss or what unrelated points they have to bring into the conversation, you'll likely find yourself taking a break from the forum.

Apologies Limecat. Understand your frustration. Deleted the suggestion!

[ronk]

Ah lads.

Extending Nankivell is a no brainer. It's not the sort of thing that should be leading to an argument.

Munster have long term issues at centre and the best time to address that is now, but that also doesn't mean cutting a starter. It usually means creating space further down for academy players to grow into.

I don't really know the academy players all that well. But they don't look ready now for serious gametime.

[naraic]

Could be wrong with current regs but I don't think he'll ever be IQ as he's (i) played for the Maori's and (c) doesn't have Irish heritage, meaning the test stand-down period can't be applied.

NZ XV is New Zealands second team not the Maori's.

That said he played for them too.

Only certain games for NZ XV count as capture games so I can't be certain if he has been captured.

Thanks - wasn't sure if it was Maori or XV. He played for XV against Ireland and Japan in '23 for them so I assume that's that.

Even within that there's some wiggle room.

NZ XV vs Ireland wasn't a capture game as they chose not to file some paperwork meaning that NZ XV was their second team but wasn't playing as their second team.

[ronk]

Even within that there's some wiggle room.

NZ XV vs Ireland wasn't a capture game as they chose not to file some paperwork meaning that NZ XV was their second team but wasn't playing as their second team.

I've assumed he can become eligible, not sure though. The IRFU haven't had a project since the rules changed and they've kept quiet about future qualifying. It makes sense, why eat the controversy on something that might never happen. Signing players like Knox put loads of unnecessary pressure on them. Nankivell is there to play. If you call someone a project and they aren't playing for you (& Ireland) in 5 years then that's called a failure. L

3 years is a long way away, he's likely to sit at an age without too many peers, if he's useful, he's useful.

He shouldn't be kept just for that. But I don't think he would be.

Kelly is similar. There may be a window to sign him. Munster look like the best destination for him if it's now. In a few years it might be different. Either way they should be developing centres in the background and doing it properly.

If Munster sign Kelly, I'll still reserve the right to throw the odd quip about more centres, but that doesn't mean I think it'd be a bad bit of business.

[ChrisUppy]

NZ XV is New Zealands second team not the Maori's.

That said he played for them too.

Only certain games for NZ XV count as capture games so I can't be certain if he has been captured.

Thanks - wasn't sure if it was Maori or XV. He played for XV against Ireland and Japan in '23 for them so I assume that's that.

Even within that there's some wiggle room.

NZ XV vs Ireland wasn't a capture game as they chose not to file some paperwork meaning that NZ XV was their second team but wasn't playing as their second team.

Apparently he also played against Japan (https://all.rugby/match/18919/tests-mat ... lblacks-xv), but is there some way to know if it was a capped game?

[munster#1]

Jean Kleyn has been called up to the SA squad.
I’m delighted for him considering the injury run the man has had since the WC, but at the same time I’m nervous that he could potentially pick up another injury.

Looking at their squad I can see him playing this weekend unless they go with a 6-2 or 7-1 split with 2 second rows.

[DublinJack]

Jean Kleyn has been called up to the SA squad.
I’m delighted for him considering the injury run the man has had since the WC, but at the same time I’m nervous that he could potentially pick up another injury.

Looking at their squad I can see him playing this weekend unless they go with a 6-2 or 7-1 split with 2 second rows.

Very reasonable point; but I hope it also informs you about the anxiety Leinster fans feel when 16 or 18 of our players line out for Ireland, with the possibility of half a dozen of them getting injured. Doesn't detract form our pride mind, but its always a worry.

[leinsterforever]

If Nankivell hasn't already signed an extension then there's something wrong.

You are probably correct. Though it's entirely possible that Munster get restricted from offering a contract for IRFU reasons. Munster have had a NIQ contract every year since 2006.

Munster could want a different NIQ and need to free up NIQ space. Nankivell is the only NIQ contract expiring this season. I don't think any province has gotten to go above 3 NIQs in recent years.

That said I do think Nankivell would be decent to extend.

Connacht this season have Hurley-Langton, Ioane, Porch and Cordero, but yeah, it's unusual for a province to have more than three now.

[StopTheLights]

If Nankivell hasn't already signed an extension then there's something wrong.

You are probably correct. Though it's entirely possible that Munster get restricted from offering a contract for IRFU reasons. Munster have had a NIQ contract every year since 2006.

Munster could want a different NIQ and need to free up NIQ space. Nankivell is the only NIQ contract expiring this season. I don't think any province has gotten to go above 3 NIQs in recent years.

That said I do think Nankivell would be decent to extend.

Connacht this season have Hurley-Langton, Ioane, Porch and Cordero, but yeah, it's unusual for a province to have more than three now.

John Porch will be Irish qualified next year, as far as I'm aware. His contract is up at the end of the season however, and he has yet to make his seasonal debut for Connacht

[Dave Cahill]

John Porch will be Irish qualified next year, as far as I'm aware. His contract is up at the end of the season however, and he has yet to make his seasonal debut for Connacht

I don't think he will be - he's an Australian 7s international. Unless he has a meaningful connection (grandparent or closer) he can't switch

[StopTheLights]

John Porch will be Irish qualified next year, as far as I'm aware. His contract is up at the end of the season however, and he has yet to make his seasonal debut for Connacht

I don't think he will be - he's an Australian 7s international. Unless he has a meaningful connection (grandparent or closer) he can't switch

Ahh ok, I recall reading an article where it was posited that he could become Irish qualified, but I was misled!

[naraic]

John Porch will be Irish qualified next year, as far as I'm aware. His contract is up at the end of the season however, and he has yet to make his seasonal debut for Connacht

I don't think he will be - he's an Australian 7s international. Unless he has a meaningful connection (grandparent or closer) he can't switch

Ahh ok, I recall reading an article where it was posited that he could become Irish qualified, but I was misled!

Andy Friend said it in an interview and it was published in the media.

He was just a wrong idiot.

[FtD]

Munster now have time to regroup and reassess.
They will welcome back a few players over the next few weeks which will improve depth.

The big work on at the moment will be their open field defence. They look to be getting very narrow and allowing teams to exploit gaps out wide. If they can fix this then they could really turn their URC season around.

Munster are playing a great attacking game, and look very dangerous going forward. Their patience with the mauls at the weekend was great to see, they waited until they were sure that they were set before putting the boot down. The lineout also looked to have improved after having a few very dodgy games.

Munster are once again in the unfortunate position of having to chase wins, and also rack up as many TBPs as possible if they are to put themselves in a comfortable position.
This will likely come at a cost in terms of development of younger players.
The players I want to see get a load of game time are S Edogbo, Gleeson, Quinn, O’Connell, Coughlan, Butler, Kilgallen BOC and McCarthy.

Having spoken to a friend, it appears that Foxe, Hadden and Ryan are not there yet, they are making great progress in training, but there is a fear that they would get injured if put in against professional front rowers. Ryan is very close and we should see a bit more of him, but Foxe and Hadden may have to wait until next season to see meaningful gametime, but will be used as much as possible.
Munster are pushing for them to see as much AIL minutes this season as possible.

Sorry - was away for a week, so I know I'm coming back to this late- but genuine question - would you rather focus the remainder of the season on developing the young core of players you've outlined (plus getting a lot of time into the young props etc), even if it meant potentially not making the playoffs?

To me - it would position you so much more strongly in the longer term, and potentially put you in place to genuinely compete in Europe etc in a few short years. I get there are financial implications to this, but I would have thought it's potentially a strategy the IRFU would get on board with and potentially underwrite the costs on.

I don't really see the merits of kind of doing what you're doing - I do think it's likely there is enough quality there to make a push and make the playoffs etc, but I don't see this team right now competing to win the tournament and not at all in Europe, absent a freak run of results. Not impossible, obviously, but not likely.

[Observingprop123]

Munster now have time to regroup and reassess.
They will welcome back a few players over the next few weeks which will improve depth.

The big work on at the moment will be their open field defence. They look to be getting very narrow and allowing teams to exploit gaps out wide. If they can fix this then they could really turn their URC season around.

Munster are playing a great attacking game, and look very dangerous going forward. Their patience with the mauls at the weekend was great to see, they waited until they were sure that they were set before putting the boot down. The lineout also looked to have improved after having a few very dodgy games.

Munster are once again in the unfortunate position of having to chase wins, and also rack up as many TBPs as possible if they are to put themselves in a comfortable position.
This will likely come at a cost in terms of development of younger players.
The players I want to see get a load of game time are S Edogbo, Gleeson, Quinn, O’Connell, Coughlan, Butler, Kilgallen BOC and McCarthy.

Having spoken to a friend, it appears that Foxe, Hadden and Ryan are not there yet, they are making great progress in training, but there is a fear that they would get injured if put in against professional front rowers. Ryan is very close and we should see a bit more of him, but Foxe and Hadden may have to wait until next season to see meaningful gametime, but will be used as much as possible.
Munster are pushing for them to see as much AIL minutes this season as possible.

Sorry - was away for a week, so I know I'm coming back to this late- but genuine question - would you rather focus the remainder of the season on developing the young core of players you've outlined (plus getting a lot of time into the young props etc), even if it meant potentially not making the playoffs?

To me - it would position you so much more strongly in the longer term, and potentially put you in place to genuinely compete in Europe etc in a few short years. I get there are financial implications to this, but I would have thought it's potentially a strategy the IRFU would get on board with and potentially underwrite the costs on.

I don't really see the merits of kind of doing what you're doing - I do think it's likely there is enough quality there to make a push and make the playoffs etc, but I don't see this team right now competing to win the tournament and not at all in Europe, absent a freak run of results. Not impossible, obviously, but not likely.

Would be catastrophic for Munster to not make it into the champions cup. Sticking lads on the pitch to play is only one aspect of development aswell.

[FtD]

Munster now have time to regroup and reassess.
They will welcome back a few players over the next few weeks which will improve depth.

The big work on at the moment will be their open field defence. They look to be getting very narrow and allowing teams to exploit gaps out wide. If they can fix this then they could really turn their URC season around.

Munster are playing a great attacking game, and look very dangerous going forward. Their patience with the mauls at the weekend was great to see, they waited until they were sure that they were set before putting the boot down. The lineout also looked to have improved after having a few very dodgy games.

Munster are once again in the unfortunate position of having to chase wins, and also rack up as many TBPs as possible if they are to put themselves in a comfortable position.
This will likely come at a cost in terms of development of younger players.
The players I want to see get a load of game time are S Edogbo, Gleeson, Quinn, O’Connell, Coughlan, Butler, Kilgallen BOC and McCarthy.

Having spoken to a friend, it appears that Foxe, Hadden and Ryan are not there yet, they are making great progress in training, but there is a fear that they would get injured if put in against professional front rowers. Ryan is very close and we should see a bit more of him, but Foxe and Hadden may have to wait until next season to see meaningful gametime, but will be used as much as possible.
Munster are pushing for them to see as much AIL minutes this season as possible.

Sorry - was away for a week, so I know I'm coming back to this late- but genuine question - would you rather focus the remainder of the season on developing the young core of players you've outlined (plus getting a lot of time into the young props etc), even if it meant potentially not making the playoffs?

To me - it would position you so much more strongly in the longer term, and potentially put you in place to genuinely compete in Europe etc in a few short years. I get there are financial implications to this, but I would have thought it's potentially a strategy the IRFU would get on board with and potentially underwrite the costs on.

I don't really see the merits of kind of doing what you're doing - I do think it's likely there is enough quality there to make a push and make the playoffs etc, but I don't see this team right now competing to win the tournament and not at all in Europe, absent a freak run of results. Not impossible, obviously, but not likely.

Would be catastrophic for Munster to not make it into the champions cup. Sticking lads on the pitch to play is only one aspect of development aswell.

Would it though, even for one season potentially?

They could have a real go at winning the Challenge Cup, while they haven't been competitive in the European Cup in the last few years.

As I said, I know there would be revenue implications to this kind of move, but would have thought you might get the IRFU (and the fans) on board with the concept.

I know there is a lot more to development than just throwing minutes at guys, and that's not necessarily what I'm suggesting, it's more about going out there now, getting your new head coach in situ, and then building a cohesive gameplan around how he wants to play with the guys who will potentially backbone your team for the next 5-8 years.

I see virtually no merit for them in persisting on the course they've been on. I'm not saying it's been terrible, but for a team with bigger aspirations (like Munster do), I think they need a bigger reset.

This happens semi-regularly in US sports (under obviously a very different model), but there is some merit to it IMO.

[Schumi]

Making the top 8 is a pretty low bar, Munster should be able to manage that while giving more players gametime. They've 7 home games and 2 games in Wales left with 7 more wins probably getting them into the playoffs.

[ronk]

Making the top 8 is a pretty low bar, Munster should be able to manage that while giving more players gametime. They've 7 home games and 2 games in Wales left with 7 more wins probably getting them into the playoffs.

Yeah, and the Investec seeding only matters for the top 4 across the 3 leagues.

[MylesNaGapoleen]

I agree about munster making the top 8. although I'm reminded how we dropped into the challenge 11 years ago and went onto win it.
isn't the champions cup money divvied up between all the qualifiers? rather than a progressive payment.

[Capitán]

Making the top 8 is a pretty low bar, Munster should be able to manage that while giving more players gametime. They've 7 home games and 2 games in Wales left with 7 more wins probably getting them into the playoffs.

I don’t think it’s as easy as it sounds from their current position. As a historical barometer, no team has qualified for URC knockouts after losing 9 games and Munster have 4 losses already.

I think they’d be very capable of losing their next 3 games (Lions at home, Ulster away, Leinster at home), without experimenting in their team sheets. At that point then they could possibly only afford one more loss in the entire second half of the season.

Now they’ve been in this position before and turned it around, and I’d expect a new coach bounce anyway, but I actually think qualification is about 50/50 at this point.

[ronk]

I agree about munster making the top 8. although I'm reminded how we dropped into the challenge 11 years ago and went onto win it.
isn't the champions cup money divvied up between all the qualifiers? rather than a progressive payment.

You keep most of your gate until the semis. Thomond Park was built for big Euro days. It's the keystone of their financial strategy.